• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Bigfoot - The Patterson-Gimlin Film

Status
Not open for further replies.
The whole thing boils down to utter ignorance coupled with wishfull thinking and quite possibly intellectual dishonesty.

Lets place apart the (truly deserved) ewwwwwwww experimental angle. Lets also suppose the film resolution is good enough to register such detail level and assume Patty is a real bigfoot instead of a bloke in a gorilla bigfoot costume.

Since we see Patty's side and back, one could only see her "parts" would be:
(i) Patty's anatomy would be similar to that of bonobos, chimps, gorillas and orang-utangs. In other words, a quadrupedal (or knuckle-walking, if you preffer) ape. But since bigfeet are supposed to be bipedal, and Patty has that big diaper butt, we're left with...
(ii) Patty would have to bend over and/or spread her big butt. However, Patty makes no such thing. So, we're left with...

Its just another completely crappy footer claim. Inconsistent from the base to the top. Even if you consider the basic (already flawed) premisses are true. I won't even go in to the mind-boggling aspects related to the flawed circular logic of the whole argument...
 
Correa Neto said:
The whole thing boils down to utter ignorance coupled with wishfull thinking and quite possibly intellectual dishonesty.

Lets place apart the (truly deserved) ewwwwwwww experimental angle. Lets also suppose the film resolution is good enough to register such detail level and assume Patty is a real bigfoot instead of a bloke in a gorilla bigfoot costume.

Since we see Patty's side and back, one could only see her "parts" would be:
(i) Patty's anatomy would be similar to that of bonobos, chimps, gorillas and orang-utangs. In other words, a quadrupedal (or knuckle-walking, if you preffer) ape. But since bigfeet are supposed to be bipedal, and Patty has that big diaper butt, we're left with...
(ii) Patty would have to bend over and/or spread her big butt. However, Patty makes no such thing. So, we're left with...

Its just another completely crappy footer claim. Inconsistent from the base to the top. Even if you consider the basic (already flawed) premisses are true. I won't even go in to the mind-boggling aspects related to the flawed circular logic of the whole argument...
Click to expand...


On the other hand the genitalia and anus claim, make for a good stuff to study for a psychiatrist.... A bit like rorschach blot ink.
 
Last edited:
Look, monstro is Jon-Erik Beckjord. He and his many JREF aliases were banned from this forum. He's been banned from virtually every forum he joins. By using various tactics, he often manages to register again on a forum he has been banned from. Since so many Bigfooters already know about him he tries to act like it isn't really him. His narcissism and ego will not let him get away with this for long, and so he outs himself and gets banned again. It's a stupid cat and mouse game. He seems to even be comfortable with everyone thinking and saying that he is crazy. It's all about getting attention no matter what kind it is. So far his posts here as monstro are feeble attempts to have the reader think that he is not Beckjord. All of them are directly or subtly supportive of his theories on Bigfoot. Some are so distinctly odd that they cannot be attributed to anyone other than him.

He claimed that MK Davis has found what appears to be a vagina and anus. That is not true. Davis claims to see a butt crack and matted feces. Beckjord is the one who claims to see the vagina and anus. If he wasn't trying to conceal his own identity, he would just cite his own theories, website and forum. So a bizarre man becomes even more bizarre because he actively pretends to not be himself.
 
Let me add that the new Monsterquest bigfoot episode did not help the cause, either.
More people looking ridiculous on TV, imo.

Hanging CD's and spraying wintergreen oil on trees...
Setting up a game cam facing a highway and then thinking a truck might be bigfoot...
Elk and deer all over, but a bedding area in the grass was made by bigfoot, rather than the elk or deer...

Need I go on?
 
LTC8K6 said:
Let me add that the new Monsterquest bigfoot episode did not help the cause, either. More people looking ridiculous on TV, imo.

Hanging CD's and spraying wintergreen oil on trees... Setting up a game cam facing a highway and then thinking a truck might be bigfoot... Elk and deer all over, but a bedding area in the grass was made by bigfoot, rather than the elk or deer...

Need I go on?
Click to expand...

They are gushing about how great the show was over on BFF. The only general complaint was that the show footage was almost entirely done to order (staged) and didn't depict 'actual' searching for Bigfoot.

Ironically, MonsterQuest is showing Bigfootery for what it is. Bigfootery is a real-life soap opera. The proposed animal (Bigfoot) is only an abstraction and does not need to exist for this soap opera to continue. It's all about the human actors. Bigfootery "advances" only as a theater of popularity (cult of personality). The presented evidence is no different (not better) than it ever was. The PGF is still generally considered the best evidence for Bigfoot.

PS: One participant in the new MonsterQuest episode says that a rock-throwing incident was not filmed or mentioned in the program. It had to be a Bigfoot, right?
 
William Parcher said:
Look, monstro is Jon-Erik Beckjord. He and his many JREF aliases were banned from this forum. ...snip...
Click to expand...
Oh, I'm aware of that.

However, he created a couple of great oportunities to expose some of the worse footer modus operandi.

I decided to reply just in case theres' a minimal chance someone else involved with bigfoot investigation reads, recognizes the many flaws, and eventually avoids repeating similar errors.

Speculation must be made over solid basis. Something that is very rare among footer cycles. An speculation (specially the wild and baseless variety) is not a substitute for reliable evidence.
 
Last edited:
I mentioned this flowchart a few weeks ago. It's now posted on BFF...

index.php
 
Other than causing those that cower over their computers, to bash the Monsterquest show in a room full of attaboy supporters, perhaps the single most important teaching point of the show was that, woman have more cahoanes than skeptics. Which is hilarious! ROFLMAO
 
Last edited:
LTC8K6 said:
historian said:
Other than causing those that cower over their computers, to bash the Monsterquest show in a room full of attaboy supporters, perhaps the single most important teaching point of the show was that, woman have more cahoanes than skeptics. Which is hilarious! ROFLMAO
Click to expand...
Even women skeptics? Assuming I have interpreted that spelling correctly...
Click to expand...
That would be 'cojones'. Apparently Burgstahler's gotten some shpilkes in his geneckteckessoink again. Neal, back away from the Spanish. Try the 'chutzpah'. It goes with the kooky Jewish conspiracy nut character I am creating for you.

From now on I ask everyone reading Burgstahler's posts to do so imagining the words spoken in a Mel Brooks voice. You know, to enhance the kookiness.

ex. "Quanta loops! You don't know about the quanta loops!? Whatta you, some kinda shmutz!?"

BTW, women skeptics don't have any cojones but they got a lotta gusto!
 
Last edited:
LTC8K6 said:
Let me add that the new Monsterquest bigfoot episode did not help the cause, either.
More people looking ridiculous on TV, imo.

Hanging CD's and spraying wintergreen oil on trees...
Setting up a game cam facing a highway and then thinking a truck might be bigfoot...
Elk and deer all over, but a bedding area in the grass was made by bigfoot, rather than the elk or deer...

Need I go on?
Click to expand...

The program was so poorly made and researched that they actually gushed on and on about how wonderful of a find the Skookum cast was, and they tried to prove it was really a bigfoot and not an elk!!:boggled:
 
The program was so poorly made and researched that they actually gushed on and on about how wonderful of a find the Skookum cast was, and they tried to prove it was really a bigfoot and not an elk!!
Click to expand...

I missed that. I musta' went looking for a screwdriver to open some beans for a snack.
 
Geno - Morris may have been contacted by Ray Wallace pretending to be Patterson (since we see Mrs. Wallace wearing a Morris gorilla suit in his flick). Patterson did try to make Bigfoot hoaxes long before Patty in '67. That might have had something to do with it. But Morris was never a creature fx guy and had no clue about what was on the film. He just stuck hard plastic pads into a zip up hair suit and made a mask. All with badly cut hair. He just doesn't know any better.

Patty is made exactly the way Janos and the guys made their suits in the 60's because that's where Patterson got it from.

Anyway... I felt bad after watching the embarrassment of Morris and the travesty of the recent MONSTERQUEST. I saw DDA looking at Patty under a microscope and I'd hoped they would show clearer pics. They didn't. I'd already shown them clearer shots of the mouth opening before. They simply merged the background with the head and called it a lip protruding. Really bad. But worse were the hunters using loud talk and clanging metal to attract Bigfeet while filming next to a highway. My wife asked me if it was supposed to be a comedy like "Sasquatch Dumpling Gang" or something. Sadly, I had to tell her that this is the state of serious Bigfoot research.

Since my DV deck is in the shop I can't put any footage in the computer to edit. So here's some old pics I'd posted over at the BFF. Maybe someone passing by from the Bigfoot hunter world will see what I'm trying to show them... maybe not.

Here goes some bandwidth I guess --

Always look at the neck. You may see where the suit separates from the head. Harder to see in Rick Baker's Planet of the Apes head; easy to spot on Patty.

Without latex skin and glued on hair I feel naked. Yet I must walk the impossible walk to recreate the odd pad outlines as seen in our girl Patty. The same pads used by Wah and Janos in their suits- btw.

Again... the Wah Chang Taurean face on Patty. A demo of how the mouth opens and closes. Legs that go up to the waist in the description given by Bob H.

My stunt dummy dressed as a Bigfoot for Halloween with an arrow pointing to where I put the Wookie cap onto my new Tor mask and thus created the same type of lump we see on Patty.

Breasts I made by sticking bowls into plaster of paris and using common bathroom chaulk. I laid them on foam (the type used to make a muscle suit - or a pillow) and painted them with latex. Just what is happening with Patty.

Gemora gorilla butt next to Patty and a Gorn leg demonstrating latex and the knee/shin technique used by Janos and Wah.


In footage that John Green might not want to show.... McClarin and friends vs. Patty. McClarin on the Right is larger than McClarin on the Left because he's further away from the camera in the Left side version - of course.

A demo of the padding and plastic knee pad used. Janos in 1964 working on a Wah project is bottom left. The blue line is where the top joins the legs of the suit. The far right bottom combines the two.

When I make a video I'll be sure to overlay Bob H. doing the impossible... actually walking in line with Patty. The impossible gait according to cartoons and Monsterquest. Yikes.:covereyes

Now let the flaming begin!:D
 
Dfoot, what is your opinion of the band on Patty's wrist? Is it the joint between the glove and the sleeve, is it just a freak shadow, or something else?
 

Attachments

  • handmove1.gif
    handmove1.gif
    45.5 KB · Views: 120
Dfoot said:
Now let the flaming begin!:D
Click to expand...

I'll bite.

Morris may have been contacted by Ray Wallace pretending to be Patterson (since we see Mrs. Wallace wearing a Morris gorilla suit in his flick). Patterson did try to make Bigfoot hoaxes long before Patty in '67. That might have had something to do with it.
Click to expand...

Morris says that he actually sold a gorilla suit to Roger Patterson a few months before Roger claimed to film Patty. He says that he spoke to RP on the phone twice and mailed him the suit after getting a postal money order payment. The suit was then sent to RP as general delivery to the local post office near Yakima. If Wallace was pretending to be Patterson during his calls and ordering from Morris... then he also had to pretend to be Patterson when he went to the post office (near Yakima) to pick up the suit.

Either Morris' story is false, or it seems that he really did sell his gorilla suit to Patterson months before October 20.

I'd already shown them clearer shots of the mouth opening before. They simply merged the background with the head and called it a lip protruding.
Click to expand...

Are you really building a moving mouth into your Patty headpiece? You know Bob Heironimus says nothing about any mechanicals that would cause the Patty mouth to move according to his own mouth movements. As far as he is concerned, the mouth didn't move intentionally if at all. This matters because you believe (as do I) that Bob Heironimus really was in the Patty costume. He would not forget about any internal contraption that attached to his own jaws.

Are you sure the mouth can be seen opening in the PGF? Could it be an illusion, film artifact or background interference? If the mouth really isn't designed to deliberately open - then you are chasing a unicorn of your own making. Given the answers BH gave to questions about the mouth (and teeth) in a recent radio interview... I suspect he would flatly disagree with your theory on the mouth.

Additionally, I would ask: which Bigfooter will be the first to mockingly say that nobody had access to a Wookie head crest in 1967? Are you really putting that on your Patty head?

I think you are over-engineering and over-teching your Patty recreation suit.
 
Last edited:
Morris says that he actually sold a gorilla suit to Roger Patterson a few months before Roger claimed to film Patty. He says that he spoke to RP on the phone twice and mailed him the suit after getting a postal money order payment. The suit was then sent to RP as general delivery to the local post office near Yakima. If Wallace was pretending to be Patterson during his calls and ordering from Morris... then he also had to pretend to be Patterson when he went to the post office (near Yakima) to pick up the suit.

Either Morris' story is false, or it seems that he really did sell his gorilla suit to Patterson months before October 20.
Click to expand...

How did Morris know he was really talking to RP vs someone claiming to be RP ?
 
Diogenes said:
How did Morris know he was really talking to RP vs someone claiming to be RP ?
Click to expand...

He couldn't really know that. He was asked that question recently on radio. He could only say that the person picking up the suit at the post office would need to pretend to be RP. Possibly show identification. I guess an imposter would also have to hope that the clerk didn't already know RP.

I wonder if RP used the money borrowed from Vilma Radford to buy a Morris gorilla suit. The timing and amount of the loan is about right.
 
Last edited:
Gimlin speaks on the new Monsterquest show, btw.

Says he had problems over seeing bigfoot...

Got into trouble over the incident. Wife wanted to divorce him.

Similar to Dahinden's troubles, he said.

We know he was so excited that he didn't even bother to watch the film when they got it back...
 
...and they were all jealous of Ivan Marx. Dude had a wife that any classic Bigfooter would be dreaming of.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom