[Moderated]The Holocaust never happened!

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Treason?

*sigh*

You people shock, but you don't suprise me anymore.

British Columbia is a province of Canada. The United States of Americas closest military ally and single biggest economic trading partner.

The Order of British Columbia is a civillian award, given in this case in recognition of Mr. Mcvays work in combatting hate groups and their propaganda.

 

[Pardalis]

I am engaged in this talk because I am amazed by the religiously dogmatic defense of disputable facts. Facts which do not change the overall picture, I might add.

I generally "trust" historians. The beauty of history is disagreements are allowed, which provide for people to discern from said disagreements. The argument is a fantastic tool for testing ones own thought and learning new information! My questions is: Why is this a legally punishable offense for this subject?

The problem here is that it's not a reasonable academic debate, it is politically and ideologically motivated.

 

[gtc]

Yes basically all what you say is being questioned.

You can add burning Jews alive in ovens to that legend. Kind of amazing to me such a hoax about soap and lampshades could have been hatched in the first place I hope no one still believes in such a lie told about what Nazis did.

It is actually not that amazing. Have you heard about urban legends? I recommend you visit the SNOPES website.

I believe that urban legend began in the camps themselves and may have been a reflection of stories circulated in World War I. Wikipedia has an article which links to several sources on the story.

 

[JEROME DA GNOME]

*sigh*

You people shock, but you don't suprise me anymore.

British Columbia is a province of Canada. The United States of Americas closest military ally and single biggest economic trading partner.

The Order of British Columbia is a civillian award, given in this case in recognition of Mr. Mcvays work in combatting hate groups and their propaganda.

First off: It was a joke which should have been apparent with what Sword_Of_Truth wrote.

Second: Who is "You people"?

 

[bynmdsue]

kageki:

Dude.Really,where the hell are you getting this "burn Jews alive in ovens" kak from?

 

[MaGZ]

Well the US embargoed oil shipments to Japan and was basically aiding China. From the perspective of Japan that is aiding the enemy. If Japan started aiding Iraq against the US, how would you take it? The ultimatum sent to Japan was a slap in the face.

The US was also engaging in covert warfare with Germany.

FDR and his Jew backers wanted a war with Germany. American ships fire upon German ships in the North Atlantic hoping to provoke an incident like the Maine or the Lusitania. The Germans did not take the bait.

FDR’s plan B was to provoke Japan, bringing Germany into the war.

The rest is history.

 

[JEROME DA GNOME]

The problem here is that it's not a reasonable academic debate, it is politically and ideologically motivated.

I read this as you saying that politically or ideologically motivated speech and argument can be punished by law at times.

Is this correct?

 

[Pardalis]

I read this as you saying that politically or ideologically motivated speech and argument can be punished by law at times.

Is this correct?

No. I'm for free speech.

ETA: I wasn't responding to the part of your post that dealt with the punishment of Holocaust denialism, but the part that assumed it is legitimate

 

[kageki]

His positions sound a bit leftist to me when he claims there was an American Indian Holocaust caused by the White Man.

Maybe he is a follower of Lyndon LaRouche

If you guys are still quibbling about labels then you will never understand me.

Well some other historians are claiming exactly that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_history_of_American_indigenous_peoples

Historian David Stannard is of the opinion that the indigenous peoples of America (including Hawaii[16]) were the victims of a "Euro-American genocidal war."[17] While conceding that the majority of the indigenous peoples fell victim to the ravages of European disease, he estimates that almost 100 million died in what he calls the American Holocaust.[18] Stannard's perspective has been joined by Kirkpatrick Sale, Ben Kiernan, Lenore A. Stiffarm, and Phil Lane, Jr., among others; the perspective has been further refined by Ward Churchill, who has said that "it was precisely malice, not nature, that did the deed."[17] -- the Europeans chose to spread diseases.

I really don't understand how else to interpret the conquest of the US?

I started getting a weird hunch that the Nazis were invented to take blame for the idea of genocide to mask the past genocides. You have to admit we really don't know much about US history. Can you concede that Columbus is a mass murder? When you think about it's a huge insult for Native Americans that the US celebrates Columbus day.

 

[JEROME DA GNOME]

FDR and his Jew backers wanted a war with Germany. American ships fire upon German ships in the North Atlantic hoping to provoke an incident like the Maine or the Lusitania. The Germans did not take the bait.

FDR’s plan B was to provoke Japan, bringing Germany into the war.

The rest is history.

Remember the Maine!!!

Sunk in Cuba. We attacked the Philippians.

Can you find Cuba and the Philippians on this map?

 

[JEROME DA GNOME]

No. I'm for free speech.

ETA: I wasn't responding to the part of your post that dealt with the punishment of Holocaust denialism, but the part that assumed it is legitimate

Understood, thanks.

 

[Slayhamlet]

Well, I use the soap and lampshade example to show how urban legend becomes; at times, common indisputable knowledge. Go back 25? years and you would find that if one denied the soap and lampshade stories one would be denounced. ( I still hear it from time to time.)

How many? I do not know outside of less than 6 million. Did it happen and were Jews targeted? Absolutely!

I am engaged in this talk because I am amazed by the religiously dogmatic defense of disputable facts. Facts which do not change the overall picture, I might add.

I generally "trust" historians. The beauty of history is disagreements are allowed, which provide for people to discern from said disagreements. The argument is a fantastic tool for testing ones own thought and learning new information! My questions is: Why is this a legally punishable offense for this subject?

But do you think it's likely to be significantly wrong simply because a number of countries have outlawed denying it altogether? As you surely know, it is not a legally punishable offense in America to deny the Holocaust or anything else. Are you asking why it is so in places like Germany and Austria? I'd guess for the same reason the Nazi party itself and paraphernalia advocating for the Nazi party are illegal: they don't want anything like a Nazi takeover to ever happen again. It's an extraordinary measure, sure, but there are, in my opinion, historically sound reasons for its existence in those countries.

 

[Pardalis]

Can you find Cuba and the Philippians on this map?

I can't even see Newfoundland, what's your point?

And what's this Island West of America?

 

[JEROME DA GNOME]

I can't even see Newfounland, what's your point?

Just playing conspiratorial.

The Maine was sunk in Cuba. We attacked the Spanish in the Philippians; half way around the world, as a result.

The truth is emotion is used move the population to do things that seem incongruent.

 

[kageki]

"In On the Jews and Their Lies, written in 1543 three years before his death, Luther recommends that Jews be deprived of money, civil rights, religious teaching, and education, and that they be forced to labor on the land, or else be expelled from Germany and possibly killed."

Your using a book written 400 years before the Holocaust yet reccomends mass murdering jews as proof the Holocaust didn't happen?

From anyone else, this would be a new "personal best" for nonsensical gibberish.

Do you ever ask why? Why did he write those things? You do realize books like this and Mein Kampf are more then a few lines?

This sounds similiar to what the Nazis had in mind. "possibly" killed. Maybe you missed that and how everything else is non-violent and also mentions deportation. That is what the Nazis probably did. No death factories.

 

[Pardalis]

Understood, thanks.

I didn't mean "legitimate" by legal standards, I meant the sixth definition of the word.

http://www.elook.org/dictionary/legitimate.html

 

[kageki]

Whatever happened to the Native people in America, as horrible as it may be, it still doesn't excuse the deliberate and systematic policy of ethnic cleansing of the Jews by the Nazis.

You don't get it yet. The Europeans did essentially have a ethnic cleansing plan. The Nazis also did not have an extermination plan for Jews. They primarily wanted to deport them.

 

[MaGZ]

Well you didn't claim it off course. Man you people are just ridiculous. Isn't this what we are told what happened in the Holocaust? That Nazis burned Jews alive in ovens?

Kageki, I take it the point you are making is the Jews had a theological reason to claiming six million since this would fit in nicely to fulfilling their prophecies.

 

[Pardalis]

You don't get it yet. The Europeans did essentially have a ethnic cleansing plan. The Nazis also did not have an extermination plan for Jews. They primarily wanted to deport them.

No.

 

[kageki]

*sigh*

You people shock, but you don't suprise me anymore.

British Columbia is a province of Canada. The United States of Americas closest military ally and single biggest economic trading partner.

The Order of British Columbia is a civillian award, given in this case in recognition of Mr. Mcvays work in combatting hate groups and their propaganda.

Canada isn't the US either right?