[Moderated]The Holocaust never happened!

[Corsair 115]

How clever Elizabeth! It's amazing that this real fleet traveling from across the planet was never detected by the US radar system when even Australia warned the US about the Japanese fleet heading to Pearl Harbor? I guess the US never did anything to provoke Japan into attacking?

Wrong. We never did any such thing.

I asked him earlier to justify and explain the source for that statement. He never did respond.

 

[JEROME DA GNOME]

The BBC have just run a piece on the evening news about Irving. He turned up at the Oxford University Union (a kind of debating chamber) to make his case in a debate on the rights of free speech. On his side was Nick Griffin the BNP (British national Party - extreme anti immigration and according to some racist) politician.

The debating chamber has been surrounded by protesting students apalled these two should be given a platform for their views, they broke in and have stalled the whole evening. In a debate that was supposed to start at 2030 nothing has happened for the last two hours.

I'm in favour of letting them speak and hearing the nonsense that they will try to come out with.

Rather ironic.

I wonder if the students realize that when their views become unpopular they are establishing that they have no right to speech.

 

[JEROME DA GNOME]

Conclusion: insane theories survive much more easier when not put to the test.

Great point.

Exactly why I am against prosecution for unpopular speech.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

I keep wanting to reply to this thread, but I can't seem to write a post that doesn't end with me wishing auto-immune disorders on the nazi-apologists.

So I'll let these people say it for me.

 

[kageki]

I asked him earlier to justify and explain the source for that statement. He never did respond.

Well the US embargoed oil shipments to Japan and was basically aiding China. From the perspective of Japan that is aiding the enemy. If Japan started aiding Iraq against the US, how would you take it? The ultimatum sent to Japan was a slap in the face.

The US was also engaging in covert warfare with Germany.

You people are not trying to be honest and trying to see all sides of the argument. I shouldn't have to provide "sources" about basic things like this in history. The British and the US were all around in Southeast Asia. Hong Kong? Opium Wars? You guys were messing around in that region first.

 

[uk_dave]

Well the US embargoed oil shipments to Japan and was basically aiding China. From the perspective of Japan that is aiding the enemy. If Japan started aiding Iraq against the US, how would you take it? The ultimatum sent to Japan was a slap in the face.

Ahhhhh the US was aiding a country which had been invaded by an aggressor.

Naughty US.

 

[kageki]

I'm afraid even Mr Irving was forced to admit that the extermination of the Jews was conducted in a systematic manner

A June 1942 SS report shows that they killed 97,000 Jews since December 1941 with 3 (yes 3) trucks

"Judge Gray asked Irving "Is it very limited and experimental?" , after some prevarication Irving answers...

"Not on this scale, this is systematic..."

I'm not sure what else you'd call a toll of 97,000 bodies processed in 6 months with just 3 trucks but "industrialised" is as good a fit as any I would suggest...

These trucks do seem real, but this is neither gas chambers at the camps or proof that Jews were burned alive in ovens.

No one is denying the Nazis had killed many people not exclusive to Jews. We are wondering if the concentration camps were really death factories or not which your post does not address.

This is a great article that I generally agree with:

The Holocaust Was Part of a Larger Genocide
http://www.savethemales.ca/001850.html

The Jewish Holocaust took place in the context of "Generalplan Ost" ("General Plan, East") the planned genocide of over 50 million Slavs, 75 % of the population of Nazi-occupied Poland, Ukraine and Russia. The Nazis intended to "Germanize" a few, and reduce the rest to agricultural serfs who would not even learn to read.

Why would the Nazis exempt the 5-6 million Jews in this region? The Jews were lower than Slavs on the "untermensch," (subhuman) scale. Holocaust minimizers are in denial about the true character of World War Two.

In my view, their real objection is to the political exploitation, i.e. the immunity from criticism and prestige the Jewish Holocaust gives Zionists. They would be wiser to address this issue directly rather than pretend the Jewish Holocaust didn't take place. They could neutralize its propaganda value another way: by drawing attention to the pattern of Nazi-elite Jewish collaboration (Judenrat, Jewish police, Zionist) and by talking about the Jewish role in Stalinist mass-murder.(See Below: "Stalin's Jews")

- Not exclusive to Jews. Final Solution seems to be about deportation.
- No extermination camps. They were labor camps.
- Mass killings did occur, but again no Nazi death factories.
- No gas chambers. No ovens. No burning pits.
- Not 6 million.

 

[kageki]

Ahhhhh the US was aiding a country which had been invaded by an aggressor.

Naughty US.

You're still missing the point. That is still aiding the enemy of Japan. Period.

Hey "UK" dave. What do you think about the illustrious history of the British empire? What do you think about the Opium Wars eh?

What would you think about people aiding Iraqis to fight off the US invaders?

 

[Matthew Best]

- Not exclusive to Jews. Final Solution seems to be about deportation.
- No extermination camps. They were labor camps.
- Mass killings did occur, but again no Nazi death factories.
- No gas chambers. No ovens. No burning pits.
- Not 6 million.

You seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that assertion is argument.

 

[kageki]

You seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that assertion is argument.

Then disprove them. I was just listing out the points of the "deniers" and I have not heard any decent arguments against those specific points.

For instance the question of burning pits of bodies. Is that even possible?

http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=9026

I understand that the Auschwitz-Birkenau complex was built on a swamp.
Even with drainage ditches, the water is still very close to the surface. This
condition would make it difficult to dig burning pits as described in the literature.
There seems to be a conflict between the earths natural forces and Holocaust sources.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

- Not exclusive to Jews.

That's about the only thing you got right.

Final Solution seems to be about deportation.

So 11 million people got run over by the busses?

- No extermination camps. They were labor camps.

Auschwitz

- Mass killings did occur, but again no Nazi death factories.

Auschwitz

- No gas chambers. No ovens. No burning pits.

Auschwitz

- Not 6 million.

True, that's just the total jewish casualties. The death toll among all victims was around 11 million.

 

[MG1962]

Then disprove them. I was just listing out the points of the "deniers" and I have not heard any decent arguments against those specific points.

For instance the question of burning pits of bodies. Is that even possible?

And in winter when the ground has frozen?

 

[uk_dave]

You're still missing the point. That is still aiding the enemy of Japan. Period.

Hey "UK" dave. What do you think about the illustrious history of the British empire? What do you think about the Opium Wars eh?

What would you think about people aiding Iraqis to fight off the US invaders?

What's your point?

You want to equate historical revisionism of the nazi atrocities with the accepted history of atrocities carried out by other nations in history?

I'm not in denial, you are.

Maybe we should turn your argument around. If we can accept the terrible things done in the past by ours and other countries, why can't you accept that terrible things were done by nazis?

No one other than you are making excuses for past atrocities. The difference is that you're trying to defend a political ideology by trying to find a parallel with a 'country'.

There is no british empire and no one here appears to be trying to promote the argument in favour of there being one now.

Similarily, there is no nazi movement (to speak of) but you do appear to be promoting the argument in favour of there being one now.

But nazis aren't very bright.

 

[gumboot]

- Not exclusive to Jews. Final Solution seems to be about deportation.
- No extermination camps. They were labor camps.
- Mass killings did occur, but again no Nazi death factories.
- No gas chambers. No ovens. No burning pits.
- Not 6 million.

So how come the Nazis distinguished between Vernichtungslager ("Extermination Camps") such as Auschwitz-Birkenau, Chełmno, Bełżec, Majdanek, Sobibór, and Treblinka, and Konzentrationslager ("Concentration Camps") such as Dachau, Sachsenhausen, Buchenwald, Flossenbürg, Mauthausen, and Ravensbrück?

Note that Auschwitz was an administration centre, Birkenau (Auschwitz II) was an Extermination Camp, and Monowitz (Auschwitz III) was a labour camp. Collectively they are referred to as Auschwitz-Birkenau.

-Gumboot

 

[Dave Rogers]

You're still missing the point. That is still aiding the enemy of Japan. Period.

So if the US hadn't imposed the embargo, would China have been justified in attacking the US?

Getting back on topic: One thing that shows up the fundamental dishonesty of holocaust deniers is this: the only alteration to the historical record they are prepared to countenance is a reduction of the number of deaths. An honest historian, attempting to approach the issue with no preconceptions and analyse the historical record anew, would be prepared to consider the possibility that the number killed might be greater than is conventionally believed. Kageki, have you seriously searched for evidence that the number might be more than six million?

Dave

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Kageki, have you seriously searched for evidence that the number might be more than six million?

Dave

Somehow, I don't think I would be suprised to learn that Kageki actually has spent a great deal of time searching for pictures and films of large numbers of jews being abused, terrorized and murdered.

 

[Dave Rogers]

You're still missing the point. That is still aiding the enemy of Japan. Period.

Hang on a minute, you nearly got away with that one. Sorry for replying twice to the same point, but this is a patently false claim. If you want to kill someone and I refuse to lend you my gun, I am not aiding your enemy, I am simply refusing to aid you. Japan had no basic right to buy oil from the USA, so by refusing to sell oil to Japan the USA was not infringing Japan's rights in any way, it was simply refusing to be complicit in a crime. This whole "Oil embargo is an act of war" argument is dishonest, distorted and morally indefensible. Not to mention idiotic.

Dave

 

[A W Smith]

- Not exclusive to Jews. Final Solution seems to be about deportation.
- No extermination camps. They were labor camps.

Not much labor going on here, Are they waiting for the deportation bus?

- Mass killings did occur, but again no Nazi death factories.
- No gas chambers. No ovens.

Sure looks like a death factory to me, Why such huge chimneys for such a small factory building? Whatever they "made' sure didn't take up much floor space but sure produced an awful lot of smoke. The rear of this building is where they had to "shower up" before starting production for the day

No burning pits.

Must have been the morning fog then, wake up. wake up Juden. Time to go to work.

- Not 6 million.

Well then where did they vanish to then? lemme guess. Miami?

To summaries. I don't even think hell has a place for such cretins as holocaust deniers. Even that is too good for them. Thankfully nature and the human species through selection discards such freaks and they are forced to live a life of ignorance. Ostracized by society, they hide in their caverns of blatent stupidity to die off with a whimper. Blaming their failure and shortcomings in life on those who are more adept to compete in society.

 

[kageki]

Auschwitz

True, that's just the total jewish casualties. The death toll among all victims was around 11 million.

Don't be a moron seriously. You just discredit yourself.

kageki, keep in mind your membership agreement requires you to be civil. Attack the argument, and not the person making the argument.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: jmercer

The exact number of 6 millions JEWS that died in the Holocaust is being debated. Not the actual total deaths in the Holocaust.


Auschwitz? This day camp?

http://www.adelaideinstitute.org/Auschwitz/truth.htm

You honestly think that one word answer is sufficient as an answer? Can we agree no Jews were burned alive in ovens?

 

[kageki]

And in winter when the ground has frozen?

Well it seems like even in the summer it would not be possible since it was a marsh.

So we can agree no burning pits of bodies ever happened and it was made up?