Is U.S. education truly getting worse?

[athon]

However, perhaps things have gotten so complex these days that everything requires a college education. If that is the case, then we better expect scores to drop, because not everyone has equal talent when it comes to playing the college game.

~~ Paul

I think it has more to do with job competition. Taking two individuals at face value, the one who can present evidence of more skills would sooner get the position, regardless of whether all of those skills are completely relevant. Add to that greater reliance on technology in nearly all trades, and I think it's obvious why colleges are initially overflowing with hopefuls who then drop out after they discover it's not for them.

Athon

 

[bpesta22]

Statistically, private schools are no better than public. They just have a biased sample of students with HIGHER INTELLIGENCE

Fixed!

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

Fixed!

Evidence?

 

[JoeEllison]

Well there is those PSATs.

They pulled it with those, too. No bad stats for our school.

 

[bpesta22]

Evidence?

I can't present any that would satisfy the "skeptics" here as they have discounted the whole field. Not to derail the thread neither. If interested, I'll post to one of the few threads here where we beat this to death.

 

[ImaginalDisc]

I can't present any that would satisfy the "skeptics" here as they have discounted the whole field. Not to derail the thread neither. If interested, I'll post to one of the few threads here where we beat this to death.

A) The "Fixed" gag is verboten.

B) Try posting valid evidence to support your assertion.

 

[Radrook]

Regardless of improvements in othe areas if the major fault isn't fixed then it's for naught.

The major fault in USA education is its negligence in teaching its citizens how to think cogently. Such training should be started at the earliest age possible to make it second nature. This training should be buttressed by classes in ethics. This double emphasis would create citizens who will not commit crimes based on reasons they feel are justified. They will also be able to examine political issues properly and not be swayed by sly politicians who gain votes mainly on charm or physical appearances or by making promises impossible to keep. Such training will also make for better inter-citizen relationships. Why such training is neglected is beyond me.

 

[Trakar]

Regardless of improvements in othe areas if the major fault isn't fixed then it's for naught.

The major fault in USA education is its negligence in teaching its citizens how to think cogently. Such training should be started at the earliest age possible to make it second nature. This training should be buttressed by classes in ethics. This double emphasis would create citizens who will not commit crimes based on reasons they feel are justified. They will also be able to examine political issues properly and not be swayed by sly politicians who gain votes mainly on charm or physical appearances or by making promises impossible to keep. Such training will also make for better inter-citizen relationships. Why such training is neglected is beyond me.

You seem to answer your own question.

Advanced/well-developed critical skills are not conducive to the type of marketing system inherent to US capitalism. Follow the money.

 

[bpesta22]

A) The "Fixed" gag is verboten.

B) Try posting valid evidence to support your assertion.

Is A really a rule here?

I'll pass on B and withdraw the comment.

 

[Radrook]

You seem to answer your own question.

Advanced/well-developed critical skills are not conducive to the type of marketing system inherent to US capitalism. Follow the money.

Yet there is money lost in the billions based on faulty thinking skills and that loss of money dfoesn't seem to matter does it?

BTW
I was once involved in a casse where a woman dashed acrross tyhe doubled yellow lines restricting her to stay in place until the light changes. She slamnmed into my car as I was legally passing on her right. In court the female judge asked her why she had done that. Her reply was: "Ummm, he was trying to get by me!"

 

[VillageIdiot]

Isn't it much more likely that surveys are becoming more and more anti-American? Somebody needs to fix this. Richard Dawson?

 

[athon]

Is A really a rule here?

I'll pass on B and withdraw the comment.

If you do find some evidence, Pesta, could you put it up for discussion in a new thread? In my experience and reading, while some private schools are indeed selective, there are far more factors influencing the results of their students. It would make for a good discussion.

Athon

 

[Radrook]

Anyone here see the film Idiocracy? That's exactly where we are headed!----------------------------------Not!

 

[Tokenconservative]

We may rank poorly in math compared to other countries, but it doesn't appear to have worsened in the past 30 years:

http://lpadev.learningpt.org/gaplibrary/text/mathscores.php

~~ Paul

I love this sort of "teacher reasoning"

So, because things were bad 30 years ago and because those in control of this data have learned how to make it look like it's not getting worse, what we have today is, ipso facto, "good."

Wow.

Tokie

 

[Tokenconservative]

* tsg;3153627 quietly waiting for someone to post a "I purposely stumped a cashier at Burger King the other day therefore these kids today don't know math" story....

I stump them alla time.

Only it's linguistic stumping. I order something and they say, "Que!?" I order again, more loudly and slowly, and they say, "Que!?"

Works as well at Wal-Mart.

Tokie

 

[Rob Lister]

Seems to me that many in this thread, including myself at first, are forgetting the goal.

Education is not the end, only the means to an end. What matters is not the test scores, but how that education, as a whole over the population, is effecting the desired outcome.

Now, the desired outcome is a political question, and everyone has their own view of what is desired. If you (we) could agree on one or three points concerning that which is 'desired' then we could better judge the effectiveness of the U.S. educational system. Until we do so, we're just spinning our wheels.

How about:

Standard of living (all things considered including the digital divide, central heating, cable television, health care, yada)

Economic stability (of the individual and the nation)

Add your own or subtract from mine.

 

[Trakar]

Seems to me that many in this thread, including myself at first, are forgetting the goal.

Education is not the end, only the means to an end. What matters is not the test scores, but how that education, as a whole over the population, is effecting the desired outcome.

Now, the desired outcome is a political question, and everyone has their own view of what is desired. If you (we) could agree on one or three points concerning that which is 'desired' then we could better judge the effectiveness of the U.S. educational system. Until we do so, we're just spinning our wheels.

How about:

Standard of living (all things considered including the digital divide, central heating, cable television, health care, yada)

Economic stability (of the individual and the nation)

Add your own or subtract from mine.

This seems an excellent point!

I would suggest that such is an issue of many goals and the prioritizing of those goals. Likewise instead of looking for one universal standard, perhaps we should be looking for a system that is much more multi-tiered and composed of alternately focussed programs and curricula to different segments of the student population based upon abilities and interest. I know a lot of US school systems claim/strive for this, but IMO, they fail much more often than not.

Perhaps the education system is not flexible nor diverse enough to adjust to changing and multiple prioities/needs?

 

[Tokenconservative]

Seems to me that many in this thread, including myself at first, are forgetting the goal.

Education is not the end, only the means to an end. What matters is not the test scores, but how that education, as a whole over the population, is effecting the desired outcome.

Now, the desired outcome is a political question, and everyone has their own view of what is desired. If you (we) could agree on one or three points concerning that which is 'desired' then we could better judge the effectiveness of the U.S. educational system. Until we do so, we're just spinning our wheels.

How about:

Standard of living (all things considered including the digital divide, central heating, cable television, health care, yada)

Economic stability (of the individual and the nation)

Add your own or subtract from mine.

Those are wonderful ideals, but have nothing to do with the view of leftist or their education system (American public schools system).

The primary focus by these two parties is to create good little leftists who can be counted upon to continue helping the US march into socialism and to make sure they don't get "too smart" because educated people tend not to be good little soldiers.

Tokie

 

[Rob Lister]

Those are wonderful ideals, but have nothing to do with the view of leftist or their education system (American public schools system).

The primary focus by these two parties is to create good little leftists who can be counted upon to continue helping the US march into socialism and to make sure they don't get "too smart" because educated people tend not to be good little soldiers.

Tokie

I wasn't considering the right or the left, only the issue of usefulness. Please confine your rhetoric to the political forum.

 

[Tokenconservative]

I wasn't considering the right or the left, only the issue of usefulness. Please confine your rhetoric to the political forum.

Hmmm...no, I don't think I will.

Anyone who believes the American public schools system is, today, aimed at educating Americans is either very pollyannish, or him/her/otherself a "part of the problem."

The American schools FIRST mission is exactly what I identified it as.

Tokie