[Merged]Rape Plummets as Porn Proliferates

[Kevin_Lowe]

This is largely my point; that the seemingly statistical data is at least as unreliable as asking the perpetrators their motives. That's why, earlier on, I suggested that even if you could identify a seemingly reverse correlation between the proliferation of porn and the incidence of rape it would tell you no more than a reverse correlation with the incidence of iPod use, eating BigMacs, etc. would. It's the old Pastafarian pirates again!

Sometimes things that correlate really are cause and effect. If you control for every other relevant variable, you can be pretty sure that you are looking at cause and effect rather than coincidence.

Whereas you can't control for every other variable when you are asking rapists why they think they did what they did. The best you can possibly hope for is that their answers could give you a lead on a relevant variable to investigate, and that this might lead you to construct a study that generated decent data. However if you aready have a pretty good idea what answer you are fishing for (porn) you might as well just cut out the redundant middle bit and go straight to a study of porn consumption and rape rates.

 

[Puppycow]

This is largely my point; that the seemingly statistical data is at least as unreliable as asking the perpetrators their motives. That's why, earlier on, I suggested that even if you could identify a seemingly reverse correlation between the proliferation of porn and the incidence of rape it would tell you no more than a reverse correlation with the incidence of iPod use, eating BigMacs, etc. would. It's the old Pastafarian pirates again!

I understand that. But at least the evidence is enough to give a strong indication that there is no positive correlation, right? If A goes up and B goes down, it's pretty strong evidence that either they are unrelated or there's a negative correlation. (Strong evidence doesn't mean absolute certainty. There could be a weak positive correlation that is overwhelmed by other factors, but that is not what the evidence suggests.)

 

[Dorian Gray]

This is about porn though not the internet.

It's about the proliferation of porn, and how do you think that proliferation is taking place? The internet.

How has the prevelance of legal porn affected that?

The subject wasn't limited to legal porn

If anything the internet has made local obsenity laws far less relevant.

Or far more relevant. One of the two. Check your local listings.

 

[BPSCG]

I like this version, wherein South Park is merged with Harry Potter:

Jeeze, as if the South Park episode wasn't funny enough...

 

[Puppycow]

It's about the proliferation of porn, and how do you think that proliferation is taking place? The internet.

Of course if the internet has made it easier for predators to find kids, it has also made it easier for the police to catch predators who use the internet by posing as kids and through other means.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19288057

 

[billydkid]

I don't find the idea that porn reduces the inclination of rapists to rape any more credible than the idea that porn would increases the inclination to rape in people who would otherwise not rape. The logic behind the idea that porn could reduce rape relates to its use as a facilitator for the harmless release of supposedly dangerous sexual urges. Underlying that assumption is the idea that sexual desire and libido is the driver behind a person's inclinations to rape and these things really have virtually nothing to do with the motivations to rape.

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

I don't find the idea that porn reduces the inclination of rapists to rape any more credible than the idea that porn would increases the inclination to rape in people who would otherwise not rape. The logic behind the idea that porn could reduce rape relates to its use as a facilitator for the harmless release of supposedly dangerous sexual urges. Underlying that assumption is the idea that sexual desire and libido is the driver behind a person's inclinations to rape and these things really have virtually nothing to do with the motivations to rape.

It's an article of faith to some streams of feminism that rape has nothing to do with sex or sexual desire, but I'm fairly certain you have to define rape very narrowly to make the article of faith true. Date rape obviously has a great deal to do with sex, and it is still rape in most people's view. Only if you limit rape to cases where a total stranger leaps out of the bushes and rapes someone is there a plausible case that sexual desire is not a major motivation.

I think it's perfectly plausible that easy access to porn decreases the prevalence of rape in general. Nobody is saying that handing a persistent, violent sex offender a Playboy subscription will cure them.

 

[Puppycow]

I don't find the idea that porn reduces the inclination of rapists to rape any more credible than the idea that porn would increases the inclination to rape in people who would otherwise not rape. The logic behind the idea that porn could reduce rape relates to its use as a facilitator for the harmless release of supposedly dangerous sexual urges. Underlying that assumption is the idea that sexual desire and libido is the driver behind a person's inclinations to rape and these things really have virtually nothing to do with the motivations to rape.

OK, please enlighten us about the real motivations to rape.

If it's only about power and sex has nothing to do with it, then how come we don't hear about someone forcing someone to kowtow to them at knifepoint? Instead of raping someone, why not make them lick your boots? (And even that has sexual overtones).

If you believe in evolution, think about why people have a sexual desire in the first place. What is the evolutionary purpose of sexual desire, and what is the evolutionary purpose of rape behavior? These are all artifacts of natural selection. Male apes and other mammals including dolphins force themselves on smaller or weaker females.

 

[billydkid]

OK, please enlighten us about the real motivations to rape.

If it's only about power and sex has nothing to do with it, then how come we don't hear about someone forcing someone to kowtow to them at knifepoint? Instead of raping someone, why not make them lick your boots? (And even that has sexual overtones).

If you believe in evolution, think about why people have a sexual desire in the first place. What is the evolutionary purpose of sexual desire, and what is the evolutionary purpose of rape behavior? These are all artifacts of natural selection. Male apes and other mammals including dolphins force themselves on smaller or weaker females.

Sex is merely the context in which the crime is committed. If you hold that rape is really significantly about sex and the drive to have sex, you would have to argue that the more horny or virile a man is, the more likely he is to want to rape someone and that could not be any less obviously true. In fact, I would bet that a significant portion of those who rape are less normally sexually functional than most men. You are not, please, going to argue that men who rape do so because they are particularly horny or particularly hornier than other men are you?

 

[Southwind17]

OK, please enlighten us about the real motivations to rape.

If it's only about power and sex has nothing to do with it, then how come we don't hear about someone forcing someone to kowtow to them at knifepoint? Instead of raping someone, why not make them lick your boots? (And even that has sexual overtones).

If you believe in evolution, think about why people have a sexual desire in the first place. What is the evolutionary purpose of sexual desire, and what is the evolutionary purpose of rape behavior? These are all artifacts of natural selection. Male apes and other mammals including dolphins force themselves on smaller or weaker females.

Sex is merely the context in which the crime is committed. If you hold that rape is really significantly about sex and the drive to have sex, you would have to argue that the more horny or virile a man is, the more likely he is to want to rape someone and that could not be any less obviously true. In fact, I would bet that a significant portion of those who rape are less normally sexually functional than most men. You are not, please, going to argue that men who rape do so because they are particularly horny or particularly hornier than other men are you?

I would suggest it's about a combination of violent tendency, power and sex, and by power the main subset could well be male chauvenism, although I'm not suggesting that's the main driver, obviously. I think a basic pre-disposition towards violence is probably the main driver, tempered by cowardice, which causes some men towards rape rather then seeking a street brawl wherein they're likely to end up getting a good beating! I think Puppycow's point is a good one. There are many ways that a man could wield power over a vulnerable woman, but the violence aspect reduces the possibilities, and rape is about as personal as it gets. The idea of forced penetration, and possibly impregnation, is, I suggest, the ultimate power trip for some men.

Ironically, I think you might find that the proliferation of violent console games is at least as likely to show a reverse correlation with rape, as they're probaby a better vehicle for throwing off pent up aggression than a quick jerk off is.

The point about evolutionary drivers is interesting, and possibly correct. I wonder if any rapists have sought to mitigate their actions by arguing this in their defence?

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

Sex is merely the context in which the crime is committed. If you hold that rape is really significantly about sex and the drive to have sex, you would have to argue that the more horny or virile a man is, the more likely he is to want to rape someone and that could not be any less obviously true. In fact, I would bet that a significant portion of those who rape are less normally sexually functional than most men. You are not, please, going to argue that men who rape do so because they are particularly horny or particularly hornier than other men are you?

All else being equal I would not be at all surprised if people with a higher sex drive were more likely to commit rape. That is not the same thing as saying that sex drive is the most important factor, nor is it the same thing as saying that all rapists have high sex drives

If you have evidence saying otherwise I'd be very interested in seeing it.