Is Science getting closer to God and the Bible?

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Why would you assume that there's any real difference at all?


I’m not sure if the concept of cultic brainwashing is especially well defined, but I imagine the minimum you need is some form of unusual coercion, and a external limiting of freedom of choice. If that’s right, then I question whether fundamentalism fits the bill. Are the means of persuasion particularly extraordinary? Are the thought patterns forced externally, or chosen freely? If believers “brainwash” themselves, is that really brainwashing?

I’m no expert, but I don't see a clear-cut case here.
 
Here's a site that claims the Bible taught the Big Bang first?

Go to Big Bang - The Bible taught it first (Spanish Edition)

http://www.reasons.org/resources/fff/2000issue03/index.shtml#big_bang_the_bible_taught_it_first


I have a friend who claims the Bible predicted string theory. Something about ten aspects of God translating to the ten dimensions of the theory. When I pointed out that 11 dimensions are now favored, he pulled another Biblical dimension out of his hat. When the theory that supplants string theory requires a different configuration altogether, you can be sure the Bible will be right up there, predicting all the way.

Unfortunately, this kind of thing eventually gets more tiresome than amusing.
 
That is hardly rocket science. First of all, there is no mention of a universe, just that there is a void. Which is rather obvious if you are to describe the beginning of the world.

The 1st verse is "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."

I would assume he considered the term heaven to be the universe.

And I'm not completely sure but didn't Einstein put a fudge factor into one of his theories because his theory indicated a beginning to the universe and that didn't fit into his current belief about the universe. I remember hearing something about this was the biggest regret of his career. So if this is true maybe H3LL, who was talking about lies earlier, should call Einstein a liar too.
 
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why would god make it so friggin cryptic instead of just spelling out exactly what happens and why??
 
Ignore the lies for a minute. They are the same lies that "Christians" have been pushing for decades. It is boring, and attacking DOC for repeating these same boring lies isn't too interesting either.

Instead, it is much more interesting to explore the various mental states of the people involved. We can assume that somewhere along the chain, someone must understand that these ARE lies... but is that a safe assumption? We know that the people repeating the lies aren't applying any rational or critical thinking when they are presented with these make-believe "facts"... but how can they manage to hold jobs and dress themselves, and still fall for this nonsense?

There are a lot of really intriguing things to explore here.:)
Deep down, even pithed fundamentalists realize that science is a more valid route to truth than the Bible. That's why they're so desperate to make their "revealed" fables match scientific truth wherever possible. There are dozens of "Science of the Koran" websites and films too. The problem is, it doesn't match up very often, so they have to bend and twist and lie a lot. When that doesn't work, they go off and invent "creation science."
 
Gen 1:27 - lastly humans
Well, maybe somebody had already figured out evolution. After all, they were cattle breeders.
Except, of course, humans weren't last. Several of the animals we see today came after humans, the dog being but one example.

Even if your claim were true, one has to wonder why your God included only those scientific facts that were completely worthless to humans a couple of millenia ago. Wouldn't your God have been much more praiseworthy if He gave instructions on how to perform artifical respiration, or how to wash out cuts with alcohol, or how to apply pressure to stop bleeding? Of all the millions of scientific facts available, your God choose to make veiled references to the rain cycle. What a Tool. Instead of including important information, He spends a whole chapter describing what kind of curtains will make Him happy (Exodus 26:1-37).
Actually a very good point.
 
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So if this is true maybe H3LL, who was talking about lies earlier, should call Einstein a liar too.

You're an idiot.

Your Henry Morris is a liar.

Your promotion of lying for Jesus here and elsewhere is sick.


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Chemical Nature of Flesh - 3:19 - LIE - More of that chemical, "Dust".

That a body rots away into "dust" is hardly a Biblical revelation, either. It's appeared that way as long as humans have had a brain large enough to grasp the concept of death.

To think that some god is just poetically describing chemicals and the atomic theory of matter as "dust" is quite fanciful itself.
 
So your willing to go on record that none of the almost 60 bible verses in this website is related to a science phenomenon or process.

So "scientific principles" in your OP have now changed to "science phenomenon".

Henry Morris is a liar.

The organisation he belongs to is known for lying.

The people promoting the ideas from that organisation were called liars by a high court judge.

I picked Biology from Morris' list as a starter and each and every one was a lie.

It is said that birds of a feather flock together.

DOC - I suspect you are a lying, liar who lies but when you are not lying you decieve.

Well done.

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So your willing to go on record that none of the almost 60 bible verses in this website is related to a science phenomenon or process.

http://www.creationevidence.org/scientific_evid/se_scripture.html

Yes I am willing to "Go on record" (gasp!) to state that - (with the obvious exception of things they would already have known about 200 years ago such as the shape of the earth etc. and which we already knew they knew about. - It's hardly earth shattering the Bible states the earth is round and it rains).

Now, can you "go on record" and say that Revelations 11:9-11 - these passages:
9 For three and a half days men from every people, tribe, language and nation will gaze on their bodies and refuse them burial.
10 The inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and will celebrate by sending each other gifts, because these two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth.
11 But after the three and a half days a breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and terror struck those who saw them.

Actually predicts Television as claimed on that website.

Do you honestly believe that?
 
Here's a site that claims the Bible taught the Big Bang first?

Go to Big Bang - The Bible taught it first (Spanish Edition)

http://www.reasons.org/resources/fff/2000issue03/index.shtml#big_bang_the_bible_taught_it_first
Weird. I am sure that I have read some where that there exists some Christians who claim the big bang never happened and that God popped the world into existence out of nothing in a 6 day magic fest.

It is obviously an obscure Christian cult if the bible clearly details the full events of the big bang and the subsequent expansion of the universe and the creation of solar systems and the like.

So Doc. Do you know anyone in this ignorant cult? Why are they incapable of reading the bible properly?

Is it because they don’t study it properly and instead flit in and out like bats and other birds?
 
Actually, even though Moses (the supposed author of Genesis) probably never took a science course or had access to a telescope he seemed to know a lot about modern scientific theory.

Here is what I heard Dr. Carl Baugh talk about one time on his TV program:


Genesis 1:1a - the universe came first

Genesis 1:1b - then the earth

Gen 1:10 - then land and sea

Gen 1:21 - then life in the sea

Gen 1;24-25 - then land animals

Gen 1:27 - lastly humans

Also other biblical writers had other unusual scientific knowledge of such things as evaporation, condensation, a time when there was no precipitation. and that the earth hung suspended in space. Gen 2: 6,7 , Eccl 1:7 , Isa 40:22 , Job 26:7


Ah yes, DOC, the energizer bunny of misinformation.

I see you have found a new liar to quote:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/paluxy/onheel.html

Baugh Sites Examined

In my study of Baugh/McFall sites in 1982 and 1983 I found that none of the "man tracks" there closely resembled real human prints. Some were mud-collapsed and/or poorly preserved specimens of metatarsal dinosaur tracks. Several in striding sequence were dinosaur tracks with partial metatarsal impressions; these Baugh had identified as human tracks overlapping dinosaur tracks. Others were long (and sometimes curved), incompletely cleaned grooves which occurred near dinosaur trails. These may have represented intermittent impressions of the dinosaur's tail, snout, or other body parts. Other "man tracks" were vague, shallow, often isolated depressions (not in striding trails), with only a remote resemblance to human footprints. One set of "toe marks" were composed of an invertebrate burrow system (made by ancient worms or crustaceans). Other alleged "toes" were small notches or grooves at the margins of vague depressions, formed by selectively abrading or pushing into firm marl (limy clay) left at the margins of incompletely cleaned depressions, or gouging at friable portions of the limestone. Often this was done under the pretense of "uncovering" toes; such misconduct by Baugh was repeatedly witnessed by Alfred West and others present at the site, and can be seen in one of Baugh’s own video tapes (Baugh, 1982).

Despite Baugh's creative efforts, none of the markings on his excavations closely resembled real human footprints. Many of the print outlines, alleged toe marks, and other features showed unnatural shapes, sizes, and positions. When critical observers visited the site, Baugh would often state that the prints were perfect when first found, but that the toes had "eroded away quickly." Indeed, they did often deteriorate quickly--much more quickly than real features in rock, because such toes were typically composed of marl or clay incompletely or selectively removed from the substrate. Real track features generally remain recognizable for years or even decades.
 
Here's a site that claims the Bible taught the Big Bang first?

Go to Big Bang - The Bible taught it first (Spanish Edition)

http://www.reasons.org/resources/fff/2000issue03/index.shtml#big_bang_the_bible_taught_it_first

here's what they have to say:
All these scientists, however, were upstaged by 2500 years and more by Job, Moses, David, Isaiah, Jeremiah, and other Bible authors. The Bible’s prophets and apostles stated explicitly and repeatedly the two most fundamental properties of the big bang, a transcendent cosmic beginning a finite time period ago and a universe undergoing a general, continual expansion. In Isaiah 42:5 both properties were declared, “This is what the Lord says—He who created the heavens and stretched them out.”


Well, not exactly. They conveniently quoted only a small portion.
Isaiah 42:5 said:
Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:
In the Bible's "version" of the Big Bang Theory, not only were the heavens stretched out, but the Earth (and presumably al planets) where spread forth. In fact, planets are collections of matter that are pulled in by the effects of gravity. Spreading the earth out would not have caused it to break apart, not form.

Obviously, the person or persons who wrote this passage did so not from a position of scientific knowledge. They got lucky on the first part (assuming you take "the heavens" to mean "the Universe") by a lucky chance use of imagery. They got it dead wrong on the second, which is why it is not included in the article.

The article's authors are cherry-picking, DOC. They are pointing out the good bits and ignoring where the Bible got it wrong.


eta: None of this includes the fact that that particular part of Isaiah is not talking about the origins of the universe. That particular line is bloviation about Oz God, The Great And Powerful.
 
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Also, it should be noted (as I mentioned earlier), DOC is fond of a version of the bible that is known to be a very loose translation, completed fairly recently, and probably takes into account the current state of knowledge, as opposed to what was known at the time the first biblical accounts were being compiled. In addition to the other fallacies already mentioned, there is a good deal of circular argument being used here as well (see the post on the first page quoting Job).

You will notice that many of the passages DOC and his sources quote do not match what Upchurch and I have posted.
 
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