How were WTC core columns separated at the weld planes?

[Gravy]

Gravy,

Do you know if the inspection included radiography of the welds (or a certain percentage of the welds)? Not that I expect they would be, but I'm curious.

I don't recall what the modern inspections consisted of. Besides visual inspection, the '60s inspections were by dye penetration, magnetic particle, and ultrasound. I believe ultrasound was the most commonly required test. You know about this stuff, but I didn't know what the magnetic particle test was, so I found a description at this handy site.

Between the NIST report and the book "Men of Steel" by the Karl Koch III, whose family erected the steel for the towers, I learned a lot about welding steel. I had been dreading reading that part of the NIST report and was surprised to find it very interesting.

 

[Max Photon]

Max likes Gravy.

* * *

Gravy,

I want you to know I deeply respect your scope in all things 911.

I also deeply respect your energy and commitment.

Cheers!

Max

* * *

 

[Mr. Skinny]

I don't recall what the modern inspections consisted of. Besides visual inspection, the '60s inspections were by dye penetration, magnetic particle, and ultrasound. I believe ultrasound was the most commonly required test. You know about this stuff, but I didn't know what the magnetic particle test was, so I found a description at this handy site.

Between the NIST report and the book "Men of Steel" by the Karl Koch III, whose family erected the steel for the towers, I learned a lot about welding steel. I had been dreading reading that part of the NIST report and was surprised to find it very interesting.

That's an interesting site. Very concise in it's explanations.

Yeah, I'm familiar with all of that. The lab I work at has a Structural Falilure Analysis branch, as well as an entire division for Metals and Ceramics research.

Welding technology is a pretty fascinating field (at least for nerds like myself). I learned quite a bit when I was in the boiler and pressure vessel inspection business. Post weld grinding and stress relief by heating, source side and film side radiography, weld defects like slag inclusions and lack of penetration, etc. Unfortunately, I've forgotten a lot of what I used to know. *sigh*

Anyhow, thanks for the link.

 

[Gravy]

* * *

Gravy,

I want you to know I deeply respect your scope in all things 911.

I also deeply respect your energy and commitment.

Cheers!

Max

* * *

Thank you Max. I wish could reciprocate, but I think your 9/11 ideas are irrational to an extreme degree.

 

[Porkpie Hat]

I don't recall what the modern inspections consisted of. Besides visual inspection, the '60s inspections were by dye penetration, magnetic particle, and ultrasound. I believe ultrasound was the most commonly required test. You know about this stuff, but I didn't know what the magnetic particle test was, so I found a description at this handy site.

Between the NIST report and the book "Men of Steel" by the Karl Koch III, whose family erected the steel for the towers, I learned a lot about welding steel. I had been dreading reading that part of the NIST report and was surprised to find it very interesting.

Gravy,

I would imagine the most common non- destructive testing method (aside from visual examination) would have been magnetic particle examination looking specifically for things like lamellar tearing of parent materials, cracking along the toes of the fillet welds (heat affected zones) and slightly subsurface porosity. Using a DC power source, magnetic particle examination could detect defects as deep as 1/8" below surface. Ultrasonics requires more knowledge and expertise that mag particle examination. Liquid penetrant testing would be used where seal welds would be required.

I highly doubt radiography would have been used anywhere but at splices between columns or beams where a full penetration weld would be required by code.

Also, I don't doubt that all welders who welded either on site or at the fab shops that prefabricated sections of the WTC would have been required to do a simple nick and break test to ensure compliance with the code of fabrication (which I assume was AWS D1.1?).

I know for sure that examining pictures of welds to confirm acceptability is pretty much useless as a perfect looking weld can have many subsurface defects that go undetected.

 

[Max Photon]

The world of MAX-MIHOP - where even insults are compliments

Thank you Max. I wish could reciprocate, but I think your 9/11 ideas are irrational to an extreme degree.

No problemo Gravy.

(Add to the list: I appreciate your candor.)


I actually take your characterization that MAX-MIHOP is irrational to the extreme, as an extreme compliment.

MILDEC is using irrationality as a cloaking device.

It takes very twisted (read: nonlinear) thinking to see through this deception.

Nonlinear thinking requires one have a command of the linearized world, AND of the higher-order terms.

There IS higher-order thinking than scientific thinking, and MILDEC exploits that higher-order thinking.

Unfortunately for MILDEC, the geometry of the topological space from which they operate has the same geometry as humor (that geometry being the cusp catastrophe).

As a cartoonist who understands this higher-order thinking, I see MILDEC's trick.


So thanks Gravy, and cheers!

Max

* * *

 

[uruk]

{snip}
It takes very twisted (read: nonlinear) thinking to see through this deception.

{snip}* * *

You know, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

 

[Gravy]

I actually take your characterization that MAX-MIHOP is irrational to the extreme, as an extreme compliment.

I'm not referring "MAX-MIHOP." I'm addressing you, a human being who appears to be uncomfortable with himself. It's not intended as a compliment or insult. It's a statement of the way I see your behavior. Your taking pleasure in rational people finding you to be very irrational is disturbing to me, but not surprising.

MILDEC is using irrationality as a cloaking device.

It takes very twisted (read: nonlinear) thinking to see through this deception.

No, it takes paranoia to imagine that you are a target of some military plot, and delusion to convince yourself that you need your "twisted thinking" to see through that imaginary construct. This strikes me as a rationalization for a thought process that you know doesn't work but that you can't control.

Well, enough derailing with amateur psychology.

 

[twinstead]

Hmmmm. Irrational to an extreme degree.

Not only do I like the phrase, but it reflects reality perfectly.

 

[Max Photon]

Surely you are joking Mr. Photon!

Hmmmm. Irrational to an extreme degree.

Not only do I like the phrase, but it reflects reality perfectly.

Indeed.

The geometry of the cusp catastrophe - the archetype of military deception - is a cubic function.

So while we might think of, say, friction - a quadratic - as nonlinear resistance, higher-order resistance exists. The cubic term is...what?

What is the cubic term?


Deception.

And humor.


The 911 deception is a joke!


Surely you are joking, Mr. Photon.


No.

Max Photon never kids.


mAX

# # #

 

[Mr. Skinny]

Indeed.

The geometry of the cusp catastrophe - the archetype of military deception - is a cubic function.

So while we might think of, say, friction - a quadratic - as nonlinear resistance, higher-order resistance exists. The cubic term is...what?

What is the cubic term?

Andy Griffith said (in response to Barney Fife saying Pi R ^2) - "No - pie are round, cornbread are squared.

I found humor in that line.

 

[Bell]

You know, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

 

[Bell]

P.S. For those of you who play the guitar or piano, the David Bowie song Major Tom is really fun. It has some beautiful chord progressions.

Here's another version:

Troof Oddity


Planet Earth to Troofer Boy
Planet Earth to Troofer Boy
Drop your happy pills and take your tinfoil off

Planet Earth to Troofer Boy
Commencing crackdown, turn brain on
Check reception and may our love be with you

Ten, nine, eight, seven, six, five, four, three, two, one, crackdown

This is Planet Earth to Troofer Boy
You should really make this step
And the Loosers want to know for who you care
Now it's time to leave the movement if you dare

This is Troofer Boy to Planet Earth
I'm leaving the frontdoor
And I'm breathing in a most peculiar way
And the air smells so refreshing today

For here
Am I sitting in a basement
Far beneath the world
The government is bad
And I think I have been had

Though I'm past one hundred thousand claims
I'm feeling very lame
But I think my movement knows which way to go
Tell my mum I love her very much, she knows

Planet Earth to Troofer Boy
Your brain's dead, there's something wrong
Can you hear me, Troofer Boy?
Can you hear me, Troofer Boy?
Can you hear me, Troofer Boy?
Can you hear....

Here am I sitting with my tin foil
The basement of my mum
The government is bad
And I think I have been had

 

[twinstead]

LOL beautiful, Bell

 

[Gravy]

Gravy,

I would imagine the most common non- destructive testing method (aside from visual examination) would have been magnetic particle examination looking specifically for things like lamellar tearing of parent materials, cracking along the toes of the fillet welds (heat affected zones) and slightly subsurface porosity. Using a DC power source, magnetic particle examination could detect defects as deep as 1/8" below surface. Ultrasonics requires more knowledge and expertise that mag particle examination. Liquid penetrant testing would be used where seal welds would be required.

I highly doubt radiography would have been used anywhere but at splices between columns or beams where a full penetration weld would be required by code.

Also, I don't doubt that all welders who welded either on site or at the fab shops that prefabricated sections of the WTC would have been required to do a simple nick and break test to ensure compliance with the code of fabrication (which I assume was AWS D1.1?).

I know for sure that examining pictures of welds to confirm acceptability is pretty much useless as a perfect looking weld can have many subsurface defects that go undetected.

Thanks for the input, Porkpie. I see your location. You don't happen to be an engineer or a welder in the oil industry, do you?

Oh, and it was AWS D1.0 for the towers.

 

[Max Photon]

The cusp catastrophe is quartic. (But what's a dimension among knuckle-draggers?)

Indeed.

The geometry of the cusp catastrophe - the archetype of military deception - is a cubic function.

So while we might think of, say, friction - a quadratic - as nonlinear resistance, higher-order resistance exists. The cubic term is...what?

What is the cubic term?


Deception.

And humor.


The 911 deception is a joke!


Surely you are joking, Mr. Photon.


No.

Max Photon never kids.


mAX

# # #

Oops again.

The cusp catastrophe is quartic. Duh.

(It's derivative is cubic, which is what I was thinking of.)


Note that quartic cusp catastrophe thinking has a higher-order geometry - by three dimensions!!! - than your silly little Flatland thinking.

No wonder MILDEC is drawing circles around you!


Your highly-nonlinear friend,


* * *

 

[Reality Believer]

Oops again.
The cusp catastrophe is quartic. Duh.
(It's derivative is cubic, which is what I was thinking of.)
Note that quartic cusp catastrophe thinking has a higher-order geometry - by three dimensions!!! - than your silly little Flatland thinking.
No wonder MILDEC is drawing circles around you!
Your highly-nonlinear friend,
* * *

Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.

“Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
The frumious Bandersnatch!”

He took his vorpal sword in hand:
Long time the manxome foe he sought—
So rested he by the Tumtum tree,
And stood awhile in thought.

And, as in uffish thought he stood,
The Jabberwock, with eyes of flame,
Came whiffling through the tulgey wood,
And burbled as it came!

One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back.

“And, hast thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!”
He chortled in his joy.

’Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.

 

[Porkpie Hat]

Thanks for the input, Porkpie. I see your location. You don't happen to be an engineer or a welder in the oil industry, do you?

Oh, and it was AWS D1.0 for the towers.

About 20 years as a welder/pipefitter and 8 years as a welding inspector.

Most of the projects I work on are for the Athabasca oil sands but I also do a fair amount of international work as well.

 

[uruk]

Oops again.

The cusp catastrophe is quartic. Duh.

(It's derivative is cubic, which is what I was thinking of.)


Note that quartic cusp catastrophe thinking has a higher-order geometry - by three dimensions!!! - than your silly little Flatland thinking.

No wonder MILDEC is drawing circles around you!


Your highly-nonlinear friend,


* * *

You need to take the plastic wrap off the cigars before you smoke them, Max!

 

[Drs_Res]

Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.

“Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
The frumious Bandersnatch!”

He took his vorpal sword in hand:
Long time the manxome foe he sought—
So rested he by the Tumtum tree,
And stood awhile in thought.

And, as in uffish thought he stood,
The Jabberwock, with eyes of flame,
Came whiffling through the tulgey wood,
And burbled as it came!

One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back.

“And, hast thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!”
He chortled in his joy.

’Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.

It had to be done!