This Week in Chinese News

Under intensive government censorship, it is not easy to find out the truth and facts, and if you can not read Chinese, you are more likely to get the government side of the story.But I happen to know some news sites which provide English version of China affairs:
http://boxun.us/news/publish/
It appears obvious that you're Chinese, but I'm just curious as to your actual location/background? Yes, the media in China is censored (regardless of whether it is in Chinese or English), as I stated above.

However, the situation is changing very quickly, and I find that those who've had past experience in China, but are not here today, tend to make incorrect assumptions about just how severe the censorship is. I've been here 14 years myself, and while censorship still happens, it happens to a far, far lesser degree than in the past. In fact, it is becoming more and more common for journalists to pursue and print articles without gov't permission, even articles that uncover gov't abuses and corruption.

And I'd really encourage anyone who's interested in this issue to check out the China Daily forums...for those who claim "intensive censorship", it will prove rather surprising just what people are able to say and discuss in such a forum. There are numerous other online forums in China -- in both English and Chinese -- that openly have similar forums and discussions.

So while I'm not saying that censorship is not a problem; it is also not so severe or pervasive as some people like to depict.
 
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I don't find the China Daily news any more slanted than the news out of Malaysia, Indonesia, or even Singapore.
...or presumably news out of the US mainstream. Our news may not be directly government censored but alternate forces certainly slant it.
 
Under intensive government censorship, it is not easy to find out the truth and facts, and if you can not read Chinese, you are more likely to get the government side of the story.But I happen to know some news sites which provide English version of China affairs:
http://boxun.us/news/publish/
Now this is encouraging.

About Boxun News
Our mission: Become the #1 most trusted Chinese online news service by insisting on "Independence" and "Journalistic Objectivity" .
Boxun News (peacehall.com and boxun.com) was launched in March 2000 from its origin as a weekly online magazine. From the beginning Boxun has been using the model of "Citizen Journalism" and now Boxun is the most popular citizen journalist Chinese online news service. Boxun's traffic is ranked with the top Chinese online news sites. It's operational model makes Boxun the only online Chinese news service which is updated 24/7.


I was thinking just today as I listened to the end of Al Gore's book, "The Assault on ReasonWP", when he echoes my sentiments about the effect the Internet has had on freedom of speech and access to information, what effects the Internet might be having on countries like China. This news service also shows how difficult it has become with the Internet for a government to control information. Even if you block access within the country, unless you can seal the borders such as North Korea does, the information can find its way to the Internet and from there be widely disbursed via people. A phone call, a letter, whatever, once the information is widely disbursed around the world via the Net, it is just too widespread to be stopped.
 
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I sometimes read Boxun, but for "the rest of the story", as Paul Harvey would say. Boxun is perhaps more slanted than even the China Daily. They have an obvious agenda. And contrary to their claims, I don't find them to be either independent or objective. "Independent" of the Chinese government, yes. But independent of the site's agenda, no.

I also doubt their claim that they get the number of hits that the mainstream (read China Daily or even CNN) news gets.

On that note.... I sort of like the European newspaper model - where you know the politics of the owners and editors and can pick up a certain paper to see the Liberal or Tory or Independent or Neo-Cryptic Methuselan point of view on a topic. I don't mind my news being slanted as long as I know where the slant is going to point.

If I read the Straits Times, China Daily, South China Morning Post, etc... I know from whence they will be speaking.

The supposedly subtle American approach of bogus neutrality grates on my nerves. If you've ever been at an event and then read up on it in the news, it's amazing to see who leaves what out. (Noted from a number of major demonstrations in the 60s, 80s, and 90s.)

ETA: Alexa ranks chinadaily.com at around 3100 and boxun.com at about 56000. Comparable graphs show Boxun getting about a .004 and China Daily .05.

http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?url=www.chinadaily.com.cn
 
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However, the situation is changing very quickly, and I find that those who've had past experience in China, but are not here today, tend to make incorrect assumptions about just how severe the censorship is. I've been here 14 years myself, and while censorship still happens, it happens to a far, far lesser degree than in the past. In fact, it is becoming more and more common for journalists to pursue and print articles without gov't permission, even articles that uncover gov't abuses and corruption....

So while I'm not saying that censorship is not a problem; it is also not so severe or pervasive as some people like to depict.
That was how I found the situation during the SARS outbreak. First we had lots of information coming directly from physicians and other witnesses to an unusual number of health care worker deaths in a hospital in Guangdong Province. After the situation was well publicized with the source person in Hong Kong spreading the virus to nine people who took it to multiple additional countries, more than a few local officials in China remained in denial mode. (I'll never understand how anyone thinks they can keep the lid on an epidemic such as the SARS epidemic.) But higher ups actually intervened and "punished" the local officials who were keeping cases under wraps.

Of course later on, more officials especially in Beijing also were accused of hiding patients by moving them to another hospital just before the WHO officials arrived. There was quite the mix of 'face saving' vs 'disclosure and cooperation with the WHO' and it became hard to tell how many cases there actually were, especially in Beijing.

India had a similar mix of reliable and unreliable information from government sources about their potential SARS cases as well, BTW.
 
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The supposedly subtle American approach of bogus neutrality grates on my nerves. If you've ever been at an event and then read up on it in the news, it's amazing to see who leaves what out. (Noted from a number of major demonstrations in the 60s, 80s, and 90s.)
The worst thing about the mainstream news in the US is just how many people believe it is a good source of reliable information.

But as for the Boxun site being biased, it would still represent a connection to the Internet flow of information. If people learn how to detect framing and other forms of bias, the Internet takes care of the rest. For example the blogger phenom of fact checking is quite useful. As long as you remain skeptical of even those claims, you can get closer to the truth than if you didn't have so much varied input into the information system.
 
Agree with foolmewunz that Boxun, like pretty much any media site, has its own biases and prejudices. It is good to read in balance with articles from mainland China, but should not be taken as being more "accurate" or authoritative; both sides engage in their own agendas of propoganda by choosing what articles they highlight, and what information they give.

What impresses me these days is how more and more Chinese journalists really are becoming more independent...and getting away with it. A famous case a few years ago was a woman married to a senior gov't official, but the gov't official fell in love with someone else and wanted to get rid of her. He attempted to have her murdered by getting some accomplices to throw acid in her face, but instead of killing her, it just disfigured her terribly.

Her attempts to get justice were completely stonewalled, as the gov't official in question had connections with all the local courts and judges.

Then a journalist with the China Youth Daily (which is one of the most progressive of the Chinese newspapers, always pushing the envelope of what is "acceptable" in China) heard about it, and wrote a detailed investigative piece that was subsequently printed, and catapulted the case into national awareness.

In the past, publicly disgracing a senior gov't official like this (and thus embarassing the Party by association) would have been unacceptable. The article would never have made it to print, and the journalist would have been imprisoned. Instead, the article was printed, and the journalist has gone on to do many more investigatory pieces.

Oh...and as a result of the article, and the national outrage to it, the woman's case was re-opened and tried in another place where the gov't official had no connections. He and his accomplices were found guilty, and executed.

Again, things are far from perfect in China. And there are still plenty of cover-ups and abuses. But it is not as bad as it was in the past...and it is steadily improving.
 
It appears obvious that you're Chinese, but I'm just curious as to your actual location/background? Yes, the media in China is censored (regardless of whether it is in Chinese or English), as I stated above.

However, the situation is changing very quickly, and I find that those who've had past experience in China, but are not here today, tend to make incorrect assumptions about just how severe the censorship is. I've been here 14 years myself, and while censorship still happens, it happens to a far, far lesser degree than in the past. In fact, it is becoming more and more common for journalists to pursue and print articles without gov't permission, even articles that uncover gov't abuses and corruption.

And I'd really encourage anyone who's interested in this issue to check out the China Daily forums...for those who claim "intensive censorship", it will prove rather surprising just what people are able to say and discuss in such a forum. There are numerous other online forums in China -- in both English and Chinese -- that openly have similar forums and discussions.

So while I'm not saying that censorship is not a problem; it is also not so severe or pervasive as some people like to depict.
I think the whereabout of me has nothing to do with the topic.
I was banned from posting in many forums of Chinese language even the sites are hosted outside China, not to mention to say a word in the forum hosted inside China, China has the world only and biggest national internet firewall, the improvement as you mentioned is not because the government has changed, it is because the modern technology makes the censorship more difficult.
 
I think the whereabout of me has nothing to do with the topic.
I was banned from posting in many forums of Chinese language even the sites are hosted outside China, not to mention to say a word in the forum hosted inside China, China has the world only and biggest national internet firewall, the improvement as you mentioned is not because the government has changed, it is because the modern technology makes the censorship more difficult.
Sorry, yinyin...I wasn't saying that your whereabouts had anything to do directly with the topic itself, but rather with your comments about China, and the situation in China. I'm living here, and have been here more than 14 years now. I don't mean to sound condescending, but there are nevertheless problems when someone comments "authoritatively" on China, yet does so from a position of second or third hand accounts, or experiences that are based on the situation five, ten, or more years ago.

As I've stated, there is definitely still censorship. But you can check the China Daily forums (or the forums at Beijing University, Tsinghua University, or many other such sites) where plenty of posts are made that are openly critical of government policy, discuss controversial issues, etc. There is definitely a line that cannot be crossed -- saying that the government needs to act to clean up corruption is okay, but saying that the government is corrupt and needs to be replaced is not, for example.

However, saying that this is "not because the government has changed", but is due to the internet, is overly simplistic. The China Youth Daily, which as I stated is one of the most progressive and activist newspapers in China, routinely prints newspapers (not online articles) that are critical of government policy, reveal government corruption, etc. This would not have been allowed five or ten years ago.

In addition, when I came to China in 1993, discussing any political issues was verboten, absolutely forbidden. Now, politics are commonly discussed everywhere, with numerous opinions and beliefs. Chinese have far, far more freedom to leave China and visit other countries (whether for tourism, or study, or work), and thus gain access to a wide wealth of knowledge and beliefs that they then bring back with them to China.

I appreciate that you will have differing opinions to mine; however, if you are going to make apparent statements of fact about the situation in China, I believe that myself and others here deserve to know on what actual experience and knowledge you are basing your conclusions.

My own background and experience in this regard is quite extensive. I've been a cross-cultural consultant for both Chinese and foreign companies in China for over eight years, and besides establishing my own business in Beijing, have also established an NGO (I was one of the first foreigners allowed to register an NGO in China) in one of the poorest regions of China. So I've seen China at its best, and at its worst. I'm not some pampered foreigner who lives in ignorance of what is happening in China at large; quite the opposite, I'm active in numerous Chinese organizations that actively work to promote development and greater freedom in China. I've served on the faculty of Beijing University (which is home to the most radical and forward-thinking students in China); and I've been a consultant on national education policy.

I don't know how to put this without sounding overly arrogant, or dismissive of your opinions. That is not my intent, and I really welcome a Chinese voice in this discussion. However, if you are going to offer such specific conclusions as to "what the real situation in China is today", I think that people who read it deserve to know upon what actual personal experience of "modern China" you are basing those conclusions.

You've been banned from websites; so have I. As stated, numerous times, there are still problems in China, and plenty of them. But neither is the situation quite so bleak, or the government so all-controlling, as you seek to depict. That is not only my opinion, it is the opinion of the vast majority of mainland Chinese that I talk with. There are problems -- but it is improving, and it is moving in the right direction.

I have never, here or in other threads, made excuses for or denied Chinese government abuses. But I've offered the balancing perspective. And I've always tried my best to not just offer opinions, but to explain as clearly as possible the actual basis of those opinions.
China has the world only and biggest national internet firewall
That is grossly untrue. Not only is China not the only country that actively practices censorship of the internet, but there are many countries -- Pakistan, Iraq, and North Korea spring immediately to mind -- where control and censorship of the internet is far worse than it is in China. And it is this kind of statement that causes me concern about your comments and conclusions about China. It seems based more on personal bias and pre-formed conclusions than on a real desire to examine the full situation and understand what is actually happening in China today.
 
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Ever since reading "World War Z", I am damn well going to read Chinese oriented new sites for news of any unusual mass murders or outbreaks of unusual diseases.:D:D:D:D:D
 
Be careful about the news accounts of outbreaks of disease, dudalb. You'll find news accounts of numbers of people and animals dying of some "mysterious disease" almost weekly somewhere in the world. In India such reports are fairly common. In China there are occasional stories with mystery disease in the headline. They usually turn out to be much more mundane than the headlines imply.

Panama tries to identify lethal mystery disease

Mystery ailment kills seven

Three more Assam-Tripura bus passengers dead

Mystery virus toll rises in India's Uttar Pradesh

400 Chinese students hospitalized with unknown flu (hit skip this welcome screen)
 
Sorry, yinyin...I wasn't saying that your whereabouts had anything to do directly with the topic itself, but rather with your comments about China, and the situation in China. I'm living here, and have been here more than 14 years now. I don't mean to sound condescending, but there are nevertheless problems when someone comments "authoritatively" on China, yet does so from a position of second or third hand accounts, or experiences that are based on the situation five, ten, or more years ago.
How do you know I based my opinions on on what information I have, I can read news but not the government papers you are biased for.

And living in China makes you a expert on China and you think being under tight censorship make you more knowledgeable about China? This strawman points are typical of commie propaganda and make me suspicious of your true identity.
 
I have never, here or in other threads, made excuses for or denied Chinese government abuses. But I've offered the balancing perspective. And I've always tried my best to not just offer opinions, but to explain as clearly as possible the actual basis of those opinions.
That is grossly untrue. Not only is China not the only country that actively practices censorship of the internet, but there are many countries -- Pakistan, Iraq, and North Korea spring immediately to mind -- where control and censorship of the internet is far worse than it is in China. And it is this kind of statement that causes me concern about your comments and conclusions about China. It seems based more on personal bias and pre-formed conclusions than on a real desire to examine the full situation and understand what is actually happening in China today.
You have been living in China as a foreigner, not a normal Chinese. But it does not prevent you from saying"It seems based more on personal bias and pre-formed conclusions than on a real desire to examine the full situation and understand what is actually happening in China today."
You definitely can not excuses the abuses because they are well known but you are trying to make the abuses look less uncomfortable.
 
That is grossly untrue. Not only is China not the only country that actively practices censorship of the internet, but there are many countries -- Pakistan, Iraq, and North Korea spring immediately to mind -- where control and censorship of the internet is far worse than it is in China. And it is this kind of statement that causes me concern about your comments and conclusions about China. It seems based more on personal bias and pre-formed conclusions than on a real desire to examine the full situation and understand what is actually happening in China today.
This does not make a better China even when there are some bad followers outside.
 
Yinyin and Wolfman, I think a lot of us here would enjoy both your perspectives on China. I know I would. And Yinyin, I think Wolfman was just explaining to you why he said what he said. I don't think he was saying you personally weren't knowledgeable about China.
 
Yinyin and Wolfman, I think a lot of us here would enjoy both your perspectives on China. I know I would. And Yinyin, I think Wolfman was just explaining to you why he said what he said. I don't think he was saying you personally weren't knowledgeable about China.
To be honest, I don't think it is that simple, he is either working for the government or brain-washed by the government. Trust me, I can tell the propaganda smell from ordinary opinion.
 
Be careful about the news accounts of outbreaks of disease, dudalb. You'll find news accounts of numbers of people and animals dying of some "mysterious disease" almost weekly somewhere in the world. In India such reports are fairly common. In China there are occasional stories with mystery disease in the headline. They usually turn out to be much more mundane than the headlines imply.

Panama tries to identify lethal mystery disease

Mystery ailment kills seven

Three more Assam-Tripura bus passengers dead

Mystery virus toll rises in India's Uttar Pradesh

400 Chinese students hospitalized with unknown flu (hit skip this welcome screen)

For Heaven's sake, I was making a joke about the current best selling novel World War Z in which the zombie plague first breaks out in China.
 
To be honest, I don't think it is that simple, he is either working for the government or brain-washed by the government. Trust me, I can tell the propaganda smell from ordinary opinion.
Actually, Yinyin, I've done my very best to state the basis of my opinions, and the sources of my information. You absolutely refuse to do so. For all myself or anyone else here knows, you could be someone who was born and raised overseas, who has never actually been to China at all, who relies entirely on second and third-hand accounts. (Although my personal gut feeling is that you are most likely Taiwanese...either living in Taiwan, or else with roots in Taiwan, and now living overseas.)

And the whole "you're not Chinese" thing is a complete strawman. I'm willing to bet right now that my actual, personal experience of the "real situation" in China far exceeds your own. I have lived for extensive periods of time in the very poorest regions of China, regions that don't even have electricity or running water. I've spent tons of time working with Chinese who are on the front lines of advocating for change in China. These are people who face opposition from the Chinese government on a daily basis, and must confront issues that, so far as I see, are purely theoretical for you. I have been arrested twice during my time in China for activities that the government disagreed with (fortunately, both times was released after a short time). I live in a completely Chinese community, surrounded by Chinese neighbors, not in a foreign expatriate community.

The fact that you print blatantly untrue "facts" about China -- " China has the world only and biggest national internet firewall" -- reveals not only a definite bias, but a willingness to either deliberately lie/exaggerate to support your opinion, or else to ignore any facts that contradict what you say.

Check out Iran. Check out North Korea. Both countries have national firewalls. Both countries practice active censorship of the internet. Both countries are far more aggressive and sweeping in their practice of censorship than China is. China may be the "biggest" simply because China has the most people; but the actual degree of internet censorship is far, far less than in some other countries.

You won't give any statement at all about your own actual experience of China. The simple fact that "you are Chinese" qualifies you to say whatever you want, without any substantiating facts, without any demonstration that you actually have any first-hand experience at all with the situations you are discussing. And you make statements and claims about China that are absolutely, 100% false...but then claim that you are the only legitimate authority.

I see only evasion and deception in your responses. Curiously enough, while I am the guy who is supposedly being dishonest, and working for the government, I've been 100% open about my position and experience. Many of my statements can be confirmed by other JREF members who have visited me in China, or who are themselves living in China. But you, who supposedly knows "the truth", and who seeks to "educate" people about the "real China", don't even have the guts to tell anyone what your personal experience within China is, and upon what personal experience you base your own opinions and "facts".
 

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