• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Most atheists do not know what science says about our origins

Status
Not open for further replies.
I wonder if DOC knows that the bible shows that god approves of slavery?

I'm only interested in presenting information. you'd think someone who puts thier faith in the bible should be aware of what is says on these topics.

The fact that you (and others) continue to post non-topic related posts even though twice I asked people not to and also asked a moderator shows a breakdown of the system and it also says something about the people who continue to post non-related topics. Its sad -- it really is. It shows a lack of respect for the Randi site (irregardless how you feel about me)

But in a way I hope it continues, because this continued breaking the rules of the site does more to discredit you than anything I could ever say.
 
Last edited:
joobz said:
I wonder if DOC knows that the bible shows that god approves of slavery?

I'm only interested in presenting information. you'd think someone who puts thier faith in the bible should be aware of what is says on these topics.

The fact that you (and others) continue to post non-topic related posts even though twice I asked people not to and also asked a moderator shows a breakdown of the system and it also says something about the people who continue to post non-related topics. Its sad -- it really is. It shows a lack of respect for the Randi site (irregardless how you feel about me)

Translation: "I can't answer this, and the mods should intervene as soon as people ask questions that I can't answer, because that is just uncomfortable for me."

ETA:
joobz post is more on-topic in this thread than all the explanations of a common ancestor (though I enjoyed those, and learnt a lot, thanks). It shows your intention with the OP by reversing the situation, and how you do not want others to play the same game as you play. How could that be off-topic?
 
Last edited:
Translation: "I can't answer this, and the mods should intervene as soon as people ask questions that I can't answer, because that is just uncomfortable for me."

Christ's people, the Jews, were slaves for hundreds of years in Egypt and Babylonia. Believe me Fran, God, Jesus (who lived in Roman occupied territory), and the Jews of biblical times understood the pain of slavery.

Translation: I meant what I said earlier. Continued going off topic in somebody else's thread shows a lack of respect for the Randi site. And it really says a lot about the people who continue to do it.
 
Translation: I meant what I said earlier. Continued going off topic in somebody else's thread shows a lack of respect for the Randi site. And it really says a lot about the people who continue to do it.


Why do you go off topic as much as anyone (for example, your recent diversion to Polynesian pre-history in that other thread)? Does this mean you lack respect for your own topics?
 
Christ's people, the Jews, were slaves for hundreds of years in Egypt and Babylonia. Believe me Fran, God, Jesus (who lived in Roman occupied territory), and the Jews of biblical times understood the pain of slavery.

Translation: I meant what I said earlier. Continued going off topic in somebody else's thread shows a lack of respect for the Randi site. And it really says a lot about the people who continue to do it.

I fail to see how this post is on topic. It shows your lack of self-respect for derailing your own thread. Have you considered therapy?
 
Christ's people, the Jews, were slaves for hundreds of years in Egypt and Babylonia. Believe me Fran, God, Jesus (who lived in Roman occupied territory), and the Jews of biblical times understood the pain of slavery.
God and Jesus understood it. But it is obvious that they aren't against it.

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5)

Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 )

Translation: I meant what I said earlier. Continued going off topic in somebody else's thread shows a lack of respect for the Randi site. And it really says a lot about the people who continue to do it.
So are you really mad at yourself for continuing to post "Off Topic"?

BTW, every ON topic post I've made that was an attempt to educate you on the reality of science and evolution was generally ignored.
 
Christ's people, the Jews, were slaves for hundreds of years in Egypt and Babylonia. Believe me Fran, God, Jesus (who lived in Roman occupied territory), and the Jews of biblical times understood the pain of slavery.

Not enough to question it when they themselves enslaved others, it seems. By the way, there are no evidence that the hebrews were ever enslaved in Egypt. The question was not, in either case, if the Jews understood slavery, but if you knew that the Bible condones it.

What joobz means is that, just as you say that there are "absurd" things in science that atheists should know about, there are quite a lot of absurd things in the bible that christians should know about. Why is it off-topic to discuss that aspect as well?

Translation: I meant what I said earlier. Continued going off topic in somebody else's thread shows a lack of respect for the Randi site. And it really says a lot about the people who continue to do it.

I do not consider my posts off-topic based on what I think your true intentions with this thread are, and I think I can discuss your intentions. If a mod thinks I am wrong, then so be it. I'll accept that. What you think my posts says about me is of no concern to me.
 
DOC,
I think the reason people are going off topic is, at least in part, that you seem to be having an issue with responding to the posts that are on topic.

There are two basic claims in your OP. First, science claims we are all descended from a single bacterium. Second, most atheists are unaware of this.

As for the first claim, it's a matter of interpretation and some speculation. According to the prevailing theories of modern science, we are all indeed descended from a single bacterium, although it is not clear that there is a single ancestral cell that included every single molecule of our ancestral DNA. There may have been some mixing up of DNA fragments, assimilation of free-living cells as organelles, that sort of thing. No one knows, or likely ever will know, the exact mechanism. However, the basic part of your assertion, that there was one sort of organism at one time that is a common ancestor for all current organisms, including all plants, all animals, and all fungi, is generally accepted. Indeed, it is quite possible that there was one specific cell that could be a common ancestor of all multicellular, and most unicellular, life today.

Now, on to claim number two. You claim that very few atheists are aware of that claim. Your assertion is that atheists are ignorant of the claim of modern science, that we are all descended from some extremely simple form of life. On that claim I take issue. I think most people know that. All the ones who have given it any significant thought know that. What's the alternative? There is none, from a scientific standpoint.

I think you have misinterpreted the quibbling such as occurs in this thread for genuine disagreement with the core of the assertion. Many of us note that there is some speculation involved on whether there was a single individual, or a colony, or proto-cells that merged, or many other details that are unknown, but on the core of your assertion, we all agree. We are descended from one celled life.

So here are a couple of on-topic questions.

What makes you think that most atheists are unaware of the claims of modern science with respect to descent from single celled life?

What significance do you think there is to that asserion? Are there philosophical implications? Scientific improbabilities? What is it that makes you think it is important to know? Why do you think it might change someone's thinking if they realized that was what science claims?


It is my opinion that 1) most atheists are indeed aware of the claims that you cite and 2) they don't care. It's not that big of a deal. From a scientific standpoint, it appears to be true, and so there's no point in disputing it. Perhaps as importantly, Hokulele pointed out that, philosophically, there is also no problem. We are related to all living things on the Earth. We aren't just similar, we are quite literally relatives. That doesn't depress me.

Even for believers in God, I don't see an issue. Did one god create man, while a different god created plants? Why would there be a problem for someone believing that God made man by using cyanobacteria and a billion years of mutations? Is it very important to insist that no, we were actually made out of dirt?
 
Christ's people, the Jews, were slaves for hundreds of years in Egypt and Babylonia. Believe me Fran, God, Jesus (who lived in Roman occupied territory), and the Jews of biblical times understood the pain of slavery.

Translation: I meant what I said earlier. Continued going off topic in somebody else's thread shows a lack of respect for the Randi site. And it really says a lot about the people who continue to do it.
Why are you going off-topic here? Is it to avoid addressing the lists of lies which you requested (in itself off-topic)?

I don't lack respect for Randi's site. I have no respect at all for you. You are a "Liar for Jesus." Worse, when you're caught spreading lies, your response is simply to pretend that it never happened. Lacking even a veneer of integrity, you dishonor this forum, you dishonor Christianity, and you dishonor yourself.

A short selection of your lies, still unaddressed after more than three weeks and more than 200 posts, may be found here.
 
Last edited:
The fact that you (and others) continue to post non-topic related posts even though twice I asked people not to and also asked a moderator shows a breakdown of the system and it also says something about the people who continue to post non-related topics. Its sad -- it really is. It shows a lack of respect for the Randi site (irregardless how you feel about me)

But in a way I hope it continues, because this continued breaking the rules of the site does more to discredit you than anything I could ever say.


Regarding the bolded part, this is an interesting tactic of DOC's.

It is essentially the JREF version of "Why do you hate America?"

Stephen Colbert would be proud. Until he learned that you're serious.
 
DOC,
I think the reason people are going off topic is, at least in part, that you seem to be having an issue with responding to the posts that are on topic.

There are two basic claims in your OP. First, science claims we are all descended from a single bacterium. Second, most atheists are unaware of this.

As for the first claim, it's a matter of interpretation and some speculation. According to the prevailing theories of modern science, we are all indeed descended from a single bacterium, although it is not clear that there is a single ancestral cell that included every single molecule of our ancestral DNA. There may have been some mixing up of DNA fragments, assimilation of free-living cells as organelles, that sort of thing. No one knows, or likely ever will know, the exact mechanism. However, the basic part of your assertion, that there was one sort of organism at one time that is a common ancestor for all current organisms, including all plants, all animals, and all fungi, is generally accepted. Indeed, it is quite possible that there was one specific cell that could be a common ancestor of all multicellular, and most unicellular, life today.

Now, on to claim number two. You claim that very few atheists are aware of that claim. Your assertion is that atheists are ignorant of the claim of modern science, that we are all descended from some extremely simple form of life. On that claim I take issue. I think most people know that. All the ones who have given it any significant thought know that. What's the alternative? There is none, from a scientific standpoint.

I think you have misinterpreted the quibbling such as occurs in this thread for genuine disagreement with the core of the assertion. Many of us note that there is some speculation involved on whether there was a single individual, or a colony, or proto-cells that merged, or many other details that are unknown, but on the core of your assertion, we all agree. We are descended from one celled life.

So here are a couple of on-topic questions.

What makes you think that most atheists are unaware of the claims of modern science with respect to descent from single celled life?

What significance do you think there is to that asserion? Are there philosophical implications? Scientific improbabilities? What is it that makes you think it is important to know? Why do you think it might change someone's thinking if they realized that was what science claims?


It is my opinion that 1) most atheists are indeed aware of the claims that you cite and 2) they don't care. It's not that big of a deal. From a scientific standpoint, it appears to be true, and so there's no point in disputing it. Perhaps as importantly, Hokulele pointed out that, philosophically, there is also no problem. We are related to all living things on the Earth. We aren't just similar, we are quite literally relatives. That doesn't depress me.

Even for believers in God, I don't see an issue. Did one god create man, while a different god created plants? Why would there be a problem for someone believing that God made man by using cyanobacteria and a billion years of mutations? Is it very important to insist that no, we were actually made out of dirt?
I concur, Meadmaker!
 
Christ's people, the Jews, were slaves for hundreds of years in Egypt and Babylonia. Believe me Fran, God, Jesus (who lived in Roman occupied territory), and the Jews of biblical times understood the pain of slavery.

It seems unlikely that they were ever slaves of the Egyptians. It seems more likely that the Habiru were mercenaries employed by the Egyptians to guard key boarder territories.
 
DOC,
I think the reason people are going off topic is...

Excellent post. It still amazes me that there are a few here who have the impression that you are some sort of fundamentalist creationist. I guess it helps to actually read your posts.:D
 
The fact that you (and others) continue to post non-topic related posts even though twice I asked people not to and also asked a moderator shows a breakdown of the system and it also says something about the people who continue to post non-related topics. Its sad -- it really is. It shows a lack of respect for the Randi site (irregardless how you feel about me)


Check you out, DOC, whining about a few people straying from the original topic, when you should be addressing the relevant issues which have been raised. I asked a particular question twice now, and you've completely ignored it both times. Instead you threw a tantrum and called me a troll. Several others have brought up issues related to the topic and you've ignored them, also, in your typical flippant, smart-alec way.

You've got a lot of nerve showing such disdain for the other participants, and in turn for the owners and moderators here, while claiming that other people are being disrespectful. You've got a lot of gall to claim that we aren't treating you with respect. The saddest thing here, DOC, is your contempt for your fellow humans.

I agree with the others who suggested you don't address the relevant issue because you simply can't. Whether it be for lack of knowledge, lack of evidence, or simply lack of courage, I don't know. But for some reason, you obviously don't have what it takes to participate in a discussion in an honest and productive way. Sad, indeed.
 
Excellent post. It still amazes me that there are a few here who have the impression that you are some sort of fundamentalist creationist. I guess it helps to actually read your posts.:D

I did not think that :) I thought though, in some posts, he went a bit too easy on DOC. As I read Meadmaker he doesn't seem to think that DOC is as sly about his intentions as I, personally, think he is. I think DOC knows exactly where he is going with the question of this OP, and that it really has nothing to do with us descending from single cell life and so on. DOC tries to manipulate people into considering his beliefs, plain and simple, he's only very bad at it :) that's what I think. Besides, he never quite gets to the part where he can say "Ha, you agreed science is weird, now listen to what I have to say about god instead", because people start to discuss the details about his OP. I don't think that is what DOC wanted at all :)

Anyway, Meadmaker gives him too much credit, I think, but I never saw anything he wrote in this thread that made me think Meadmaker would be a creationist :confused:

Besides, my interpretation of it all could be wrong, I guess, has happened before... :o Meadmaker's approach is a good one in any case, he's (she?) saying many wise things.
 
Last edited:
Doc, if you really want people to stay on topic, why don't you ignore the people who post off topic and start responding to those of us who have kept to the topic, and attempted to address your original post?
 
DOC,

A simple way to stop people going off topic is to not answer !

However... You aren’t answering anyone who IS on topic.

Back ON topic.

I think plenty of people here are splitting hairs when they talk about 1 cell, 1 organism etc etc.. your basic statement was about ALL life descending from a very rudimentary ancestor… and this is essentially correct.

Your statement that in your opinion only 10 % of atheists would know this is patently RIDICULOUS !

I do not know 1 atheist (or most theists for that matter) who is does not have at least a rudimentary understanding of evolution and its implications that all life descended from single cell/multiple cell/small organism creature.

Your problem is in your circles (and a lot of US fundamental circles) this seems SHOCKING.. to me and most atheists it seems perfectly reasonable. The shock you feel at this notion (coming from your ignorant base) makes you think atheists would also be shocked.

So lets get to your point.

You think if atheists knew this fact (which in fact they DO).. they would be SHOCKED into becoming theists !!!!!

That is INANE..

Even if the odd atheist DIDN’T know about evolution, the idea would be WAY more palatable than a mythical being “poofed” everything into place !

There DOC.. try answering something ON topic !
 
I don't think he (Meadmaker) is a creationist. I do think he is an apologist... as his first post here shows. He gives the benefit of the doubt to people like Behe while being quick to judge non-believers and call them strident, bad, mean, unfair, and dishonest.

So if that was in reference to me... I hope that clarifies my position. If anyone says anything bad about religion--Meadmaker is there to make them into the bad guy. But of the apologists on this forum, he at least admits that is what he is, and he is the smartest and my favorite.

I am more in line in my thinking with Fran a few irreverent and humorous posters. I find the apologetics smarmy.
 
Articulett,

Your posts are great.. but I think you mean DOC.. Meadmaker makes perfect sense to me and doesn't do the things you are claiming ???
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom