Bigfoot - The Patterson-Gimlin Film

[manofthesea]

Not Likely

mots,


In regards to post 8259 your sidestepping is typical of a bigfoot story put under scrutiny. This one kind of started real slow then fizzled out all together.

I left you an easy out, you could have simply said you didn’t remember where the cabin was and I would have let it go, or, you could have just marked where you thought it was.

Did you not notice the fire/logging/spur roads to the east and west of the Olympic Pipeline? Since you live on a Rock I’ll try to explain what those roads indicate. The majority of the area has been logged, and it will in the future be logged again. It’s what is called Commercial Forestry; the only people that live in an area zoned for Commercial Forestry live out of tents or trailers, some people call it camping. If my recollection of the area is correct there are some 5 -10 acre plots on the NW side of the knoll/hill that continue down to the vicinity of I-5, (I’m not sure what they’re zoned for) but that’s pretty much it. Around the base of the knoll/hill there are many private residences, on the knoll/hill itself, no. I could probably dig-up a zoning map if I have not made myself crystal clear.

Do you have another story for us, or is this pretty much it?


It’s supposed to blow here tomorrow night, I need to find some dead batteries to put into my cameras and recording devices so I have an excuse for not obtaining any audio or visual proof of bigfoot as he pounds on the house. I’m certain it wasn’t the ladder I heard the other night. I can’t really run anywhere when it happens so I’ll put a blanket over my head and turn the TV up real loud. My god, I hope the power doesn’t go out, and what about lightning, crap, possible bigfoot shadows. I’m starting to freak myself out, gotta go.


m

If you know this area, then surely you know of the Johnsons. First cabin up the hill, only cabin until the new one was built on top. The road led from near the lake, over the hill and down, presumably to that little gas stop on the other side. They are not permanent residents. They are architects and such, and the cabin is mostly for recreation. Like I said, Ty Johnson is supposed to be a real estate developer in that area now.
We used to bicycle around the lake, rent the paddleboats, etc.
I suggest you seek out the plot for the Johnsons and then you, yourself can find out the details, firsthand. Then go back in those woods and try some of what I did. What's the harm? It'll be much less time consuming than spending time on the internet.

Do you know the Johnsons?

You said that you were there for six years. In the eighties. So were they. You must have been aware of one of the more affluent families in town.

 

[Correa Neto]

Yes, crawl back into your little cubicle and surrender (like CN).
Then repeat, "There is no bigfoot (please), there is no bigfoot (please)..."

ETA: monkutare

I crawled back to my little cubicle and surrendered?

In your dreams.

At none of my posts I was disrespectful. I wrote what I consider to be a reasonable explanation, much more realistic than a bigfoot. If you don't like it, its your problem. You seeked for it.

When faced with perfectly plausible explanations, your reaction is spewing offenses. The standart reaction of a delusional believer left without arguments.

You should consider why some people at BFF doubted you encountered a real bigfoot... Take my advise and try your luck seeking confirmation and congratulations somewhere else. At BFRO, for example, chances are no one will doubt you. Tell them folks at BFF mistreated you and maybe you'll get an even warmer wellcome.

 

[Drewbot]

Actually, LTC is the only person who's asked pertinent questions.
CN: MOTS is dreaming
NW (KK): MOTS is loony
WP (The infant): blah, blah, har har
Mange: I know the area (we'll see)
AMM: ?
TJW: (see WP)
Drewbot (a ray wannabe): MOTS is a liar
Ray (Dark Shadow): 'Depends what the definition of 'is' is.

I want to know how I got tagged with calling you a liar. These are the only references to your play for attention (You called it that, not me), that I have made. If you think these posts call you a liar, then we can add paranoid delusions to the list of what I am calling you.

MOTS
is it possible that the howling you heard was a 'Bigfooter' out scoping his favorite area? The deer and assorted animals were running from him, and since you weren't howling, they thought you less of a threat and went scooting by?

Also, I didn't see what time of year was the howling/animals freaking out?

Another possibility is that it was a person, and they were trying to scare you. I think that is most likely.

The thing is, people probably HAVE had similar encounters in the past 30 years, They just don't attribute the encounters to: an Unclassified, Hairy, Bipedal, Strong-swimming(breast stroke), omnivorous, bad-smelling, tree-bending, migratory, low-pitched auditory wave emitting, rock-throwing, hunter/gatherer, North American, Primate... (Items left out because they can't be proven: Babysitting, Telepathic, TreeClimbing, Alien).

Believe me, I think the recent Achilles tendon research is a much more important topic regarding the PGF, and you're baiting us into ignoring compelling problems for the PGF, while we deal with your P.F.A.

 

[kitakaze]

You do this alot.

I should be ashamed? I wrote 'uncle' instead of 'dad'. What's the matter with you, buddy?

But please, do go ahead and point out where I made any factual errors. I'd appreciate it.

I stated my encounter(s). I'll answer pertinent questions with the simplest answer possible.

I am not a bigfoot researcher. I have no links for you to pass the time with. Just my two encounters. The facts have been stated. I don't engage in pedanticism.

ETA: bakatare

Dodge, insult, repeat. Got it.

Yes, crawl back into your little cubicle and surrender (like CN).
Then repeat, "There is no bigfoot (please), there is no bigfoot (please)..."

ETA: monkutare

Surrender like Correa? You work close to power lines, right?

ETA: If you wanna try and insult me in Japanese, make sure you do it right so you don't come up with gobbledygook. I'd appreciate the effort. Also, don't forget to try some Portugese with Correa. I'm sure he'd appreciate the love too.

 

[Correa Neto]

How many Bigfoot proponents/advocates (I hesitate to use believer) does the JREF forum get here that are articulate, reasonable, and have some critical thinking skills? I don't necessarily mean formal training in logic, statistics, or quantitative science (though that would be a plus).

I think most of them do have those skills. However, in many people, belief tends to create a "blind spot" where they either shut down or malfunction. I think most of the proponents that came here had this issue at a greater or lesser degree. Its a big soft underbelly.

Personally I think some of them actually have a big problem with those wo disagree with and challenge some of their positions or beliefs. Sometimes this may lead to irrational behavior, specially when the person finds him/herself cornered and without "debate ammo". For example, it seems like another proponent is trying to get a suspension or a ban...

But this is not something that happens only with footers or woos in general... Check the Politics section and you'll see examples. Talk with some sports fans and you'll see others. That's how humanity walks...

 

[AtomicMysteryMonster]

Yes, Gimlin sold all his rights to the film worth thousands and thousands of dollars to Dahinden for TEN BUCKS! Maybe Dahinden found something that could have indicted Gimlin in a hoax (like his friend and neighbor Heironimus) and this was Gimlins way of washing his hands of it??

Could be, although I personally lean towards the "Gimlin didn't give a crap about the movie/money and only went along with it to begin with because he was friends with Patterson" explanation.

Despite being skeptical of Mr. Heironimus' claims (His story has too many holes for my taste), I've always been fascinated the story about Dahinden having a meeting with Patricia Patterson back when Bob Heironimus first started up:

"And after years of fighting every corporation, company or lawyer in order to do this he finally sat down with his old enemy Pat Patterson in an effort to destroy the man now claiming to have been the person wearing the suit. After this meeting he dropped all attempts to seek out Bob Heironimus. He gave out what he called "the clean version" of Roger Patterson to Bigfoot fans while trashing nearly everyone else who sought to study the film. But he stayed clear of Bob Heironimus. He merely said that he had checked on this and preferred to "Let sleeping dogs lay." Highly strange after the efforts he'd made over years of time and expense."

"Let sleeping dogs lie?" Was this a poor choice of words on his part or did he find something indicating that Heironimus wasn't full of crap? I have to admit that this story sometimes makes me wonder if my skepticism of Bob H. is misplaced. But until he (or someone else) provides better evidence of his claims, I'll stay skeptical.

 

[Drewbot]

Kitakaze, were you on actual BFRO trips? What were some of the other suspicious things that convinced you that you were barking up the wrong tree?

 

[William Parcher]

"Let sleeping dogs lie?" Was this a poor choice of words on his part or did he find something indicating that Heironimus wasn't full of crap? I have to admit that this story sometimes makes me wonder if my skepticism of Bob H. is misplaced. But until he (or someone else) provides better evidence of his claims, I'll stay skeptical.

That statement by Rene leaves you hanging, but the implication is that BH had a defensible story to tell. If BH is telling the truth (about being in the suit) then Patty Patterson knows it was him for sure. At the time, she would not have known if BH had physical evidence linking himself to Patty. He could have taken photos of the suit when he got back to Yakima with it. He could have kept a piece of the suit. She can't know what stuff he might have. Turns out he only has his story. The situation is allowing her and Gimlin to continue to imply that the film is authentic.

Korff says he has more to offer on the BH/Patty connection and BH responds to his skeptics and their claims. He's supposed to have a new DVD documentary released about now. Korff, BH, and Roger Knights were on X-Zone radio last night. It's at least BH's third time on that show. He comes off as credible and does not shrink from spontaneous replies to live and skeptical questions. But it looks like you now have to pay to listen to archived shows. I didn't hear the show last night. Maybe Roger Knights or Henry May will give a review of it on BFF.

BTW, I think you know that I do believe Bob Heironimus was Patty. The holes in his story don't bother me. It's a shame he doesn't have any physical evidence tying him to the hoax. I look forward to hearing more from him, and Long and Korff still have more to say about Patterson and Gimlin. The skeptical and critical analysis of the PGF still continues to gnaw away at it's credibility - 40 years later. I give a personal cheer to BH for a time to celebrate 40 years after wearing that famous costume. Bob sounds like a cool guy and I'd love to spend a few hours with him and some beer.

The PGF is high camp pop culture. It's too bad that Warhol didn't do a color screen of Frame 352. The PGF has something for everyone, skeptic and believer. I would dare any lay person and random citizen anywhere in the world to view the film and not make some sort of evaluative comment. Even a non-commital response is likely to come after some scrutiny. But most everyone will offer their opinion with the knowledge that Bigfoot still has not been confirmed to exist in the first place. At the minimum, the film gives us all something interesting to debate. It leads the pack in that regard. Interest in the PGF has never been greater than in the past few years. The PGF believers are a testiment to the film's enduring resistance to skeptical criticisms. There is no silver bullet to bring Patty down.

 

[kitakaze]

Kitakaze, were you on actual BFRO trips? What were some of the other suspicious things that convinced you that you were barking up the wrong tree?

I've never been on a BFRO trip though I'd sure like to. Why do you ask? Are you referencing Wu Pi and The Big Sticks?

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2978984#post2978984

 

[AtomicMysteryMonster]

That statement by Rene leaves you hanging, but the implication is that BH had a defensible story to tell. If BH is telling the truth (about being in the suit) then Patty Patterson knows it was him for sure. At the time, she would not have known if BH had physical evidence linking himself to Patty. He could have taken photos of the suit when he got back to Yakima with it. He could have kept a piece of the suit. She can't know what stuff he might have. Turns out he only has his story. The situation is allowing her and Gimlin to continue to imply that the film is authentic.

Good point. Didn't she also take down that P/G footage licensing website of hers around that time (Does anyone remember the URL for it? I'd love to run it through archive.org to see what comes up)? To me, this definitely points to Patricia Patterson knowing that the footage was a fake.

Korff says he has more to offer on the BH/Patty connection and BH responds to his skeptics and their claims. He's supposed to have a new DVD documentary released about now. Korff, BH, and Roger Knights were on X-Zone radio last night.

Bob H. and Roger Knights together? Oh man, that must've been priceless.

Although I doubt it'll ever happen, I'd like to imagine that the "more to offer" stuff in the upcoming DVD is the revelation that Dfoot finished up his suit, teamed up with Korff and Long, and did for a recreation of the footage.

BTW, I think you know that I do believe Bob Heironimus was Patty. The holes in his story don't bother me. It's a shame he doesn't have any physical evidence tying him to the hoax. I look forward to hearing more from him, and Long and Korff still have more to say about Patterson and Gimlin.

Yep, I know and I must admit that've made some very interesting points in his defense. The way I see it, if I piss all over Patterson's stories for their contradictions, I should piss on Bob H's as well. I too share your enjoyment of Heironimus and Long (Korff seems to have gone off the deep end as of late) talking about the film, although not always for the same reasons. I loved the time he claimed that he and Gimlin patched things up and that Gimlin said that he's okay with Heironimus telling the truth as long as he left him out of it. However, telling that story means Heironimus didn't listen to his friend's request. Although to be fair, didn't Gimlin once say that he considered him as a friend? Something must be up if a friend tries to tell the public/media that they were both part of a hoax. I can't say for sure what it is, but there's more to this story. It's certainly times like these where I waver about my opinion of Heironimus.

No matter what the case is, I'm glad Bob Heironimus did what he did since he brought some new information to light and showed that a person can do "the walk" (He really should try finding old home movie footage of him doing it in public that predates the P/G footage). The best part is that if you believe that he's lying, then he's shown that a hoaxer can do an incomplete research job, can fail to stick to a story's details, and can get multiple people to lie for him. You know, stuff that proponents claim couldn't be the case whenever it's suggested that someone reporting a sighting could've done.

Interest in the PGF has never been greater than in the past few years. The PGF believers are a testiment to the film's enduring resistance to skeptical criticisms. There is no silver bullet to bring Patty down.

The funny thing is that people in the general public seem to be okay with the idea of it being a hoax. On other message boards I frequent, most people refer to the film as a hoax. They either base it on sight alone (especially after seeing the stabilized version), make a reference to Bob Heironimus' confession, or make a vague (mistaken) reference to the Wallace family confession.

 

[AtomicMysteryMonster]

It looks like Loren Coleman decided to "borrow" an image that was posted here for his post on the 40th anniversary of the P/G film.

Speaking of the film's anniversary, here are some videos that might be of interest to you all:

Mr. Deadguy - I'm not sure if he's wearing latex makeup prosthetics or a mask, but it goes to show how impressive, wearable effects with moving mouths are quite possible.

UFO Abduction - Now this has an interesting backstory. The footage shown here was taken from a low budget 80's sci-fi/horror movie that fell into obscurity after the distribution company burned down/went out of business. However, a few screeners were released before this happened and someone decided to edit out all the references to it being a work of fiction and hoisted it on the UFO crowd as if it was a real video. People fell for it and you can see some pretty familiar-sounding arguments being used in this news story on the matter. After the creator of the film found out about this, he came forward and later did a remake called "Alien Abduction: Incident in Lake County."

Bigfoot Lives - A hilarious short film about how a (fictional) Bigfoot proponent deals with learning that the P/G footage was a hoax.

HIIIYAAA!! - Further proof that padding doesn't restrict movement as much as proponents would like you to believe.

bigfoot-movie test - A guy testing his homemade Bigfoot costume (made from a sweatsuit and hair extensions). It's not really related to the P/G film; I just thought it was neat.

 

[LTC8K6]

He captured the primate on film. No rushing back to his computer to post it on YouTube immediately. Things moved at a slower pace back then.

It was not until weeks or even months later that some saw the film for the first time.

I can't believe Loren has the gall to say that. No rushing. Ha!

This film was rushed like no other film in history.

 

[AtomicMysteryMonster]

I can't believe Loren has the gall to say that. No rushing. Ha!

This film was rushed like no other film in history.

Agreed. It takes some serious chutzpah to try claiming that Patterson's getting the film developed over a weekend after quickly coming home wasn't "rushing things." I also loved the pleading for no "undue over-analysis...It is what it is" (Translation: Please don't point out the numerous problems).

Interestingly enough, the delays/long periods of time it took to discuss stuff that Coleman mention are (in my opinion) what gave the P/G footage its "power." If the internet and Youtube existed when that footage came out, I'd bet that the film's credibility would've been torn to shreds rather quickly. But since the instantaneous sharing of information didn't exist then (and since the main sources of information on the film were written by proponents) people weren't exposed to the problems with the film and now we hear stuff about how it's never been debunked after 40 years, so it must be real (**cough**Surgeon's Photograph**cough**). As if there was constant study of the film over that period of time...

 

[Skeptical Greg]

Patterson shot a lot more film ..

I bet some of it is out there somewhere, and chances are, it would shed more doubt on the Patty part; or at least the time line of when it was shot..

 

[AtomicMysteryMonster]

Patterson shot a lot more film ..

I bet some of it is out there somewhere, and chances are, it would shed more doubt on the Patty part; or at least the time line of when it was shot..

Since Patrica Patterson probably owns the rights to that footage/has all the film cans, I doubt we'll ever see 'em. It's a shame, I'd really like to see the gorilla suit footage that Harvey Anderson claimed Patterson made in 1961. I'd also like to see the still photographs involving a person in a Bigfoot costume that Duane Anderson claimed Patterson took.

Come to think of it, whatever happened to the person that developed the P/G footage? You'd think that if the footage was real, proponents would've gotten that person to vouch for the fact that they didn't see multiple "takes" while working with the film (or something along those lines).

 

[William Parcher]

The 40th PGF Anniversary has hit the mass media. Expect an influx of the curious who will find their way to the various pro-Bigfoot sites. Some may end up here on JREF, but this is not a straightforward Internet destination for Bigfoot debate. No Bigfoot site lists JREF as a reference source link and the only citations of JREF come within certain rare posts. Anyway, after 40 years, the situation now is that there are many dozens of pro-Bigfoot sites and forums while dedicated BF skepticism is rather scarce.

40 years on, 'Bigfoot' film still the benchmark for believers

"This is the cornerstone of the entire case for Bigfoot," Daniel Perez told AFP. "People say 'It's just a guy in a suit'. Well I beg to differ. If it's a man in a costume, why can't anyone duplicate the film?"

Perez doesn't mention that nobody has really given much effort to try to duplicate the PGF.

 

[historian]

Perez doesn't mention that nobody has really given much effort to try to duplicate the PGF.

B.S. meter is going off the scale

Butt crack and perky boobs are pretty hard to duplicate. Throw is the compliant hair weave, and the visible feet, and it becomes impossible to duplicate. Those that have tried, have failed miserably.

 

[William Parcher]

Patty is actually a very low tech and low cost costume. Patterson was well equipped both creatively and as a craftsman/artist to put together a decent Bigfoot get-up. If he started with a good gorilla costume, he could short cut lots of fabrication that would be necessary if starting from scratch. The only determined attempt to recreate the suit was done by Dfoot. He was already over-engineering it with a body suit and detailed face mask. Whatever Patterson did with the suit - I'm pretty sure he didn't do what Dfoot was doing.

It's debatable whether there is a butt crack or not. Even if the fur seems to show a crack or crease, it doesn't mean there are genuine butt cheeks underneath it all. The breasts are screwy because they show no sag and they are located too low on the chest. The clips we see don't show any flopping or meaningful bounce. Those hooters are rigid. They're fakes and Roger even went as far as covering them with fur. They look stupid and totally unnatural.

 

[kitakaze]

I'm wondering if there would be any benefit in starting a separate thread for this but here is a link to the BFRO's new game trail photo claim that's been getting a lot of proponents worked up:

http://bfro.net/avevid/jacobs/jacobs_photos.asp

In the BFF thread on the topic Elk Cast Guy and Bigfoot Scream Hoaxer Guy are among those there that are appropriately attributing it to bear:

http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?showtopic=20689

Interestingly, BFRO is now saying that quadrapedalism is a consistent feature concerning juvenile bigfoot reports.

BTW, check out BFRO's main page and look at how many bigfoot tours they have upcoming for 2007/2008 compared to previously:

http://bfro.net/

These scammers are really getting started now.

 

[RayG]

BTW, check out BFRO's main page and look at how many bigfoot tours they have upcoming for 2007/2008 compared to previously:

http://bfro.net/

That should lay to rest any claim by proponents that no one is making money off bigfoot.

RayG