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Intelligent Evolution?

Then stop. This is a thread about Intelligent Design and Evolution. Don't deliberately muddy the waters with equivocation.

What has that got to do with the process of creating an instance? It seems you are getting the wrong end of the stick each and every time here.

No, it isn't. Reproduction is the only "goal" of living things. Life, and evolution have no goals, and have no design. They have no designer. They have a form that has developed through genetic drift, and natural and sexual selection.

Please stop deliberately trying to inappropriately interject "design" into a discussion about evolution. The Theory of Evolution is the alternative to the theory of design.

Re-read cyborg's post, but this time slowly and carefully and with your head sticking just a little bit out of the box! If that doesn't work maybe we'll have to work on that word 'design', which seems to be confusing you when not written in a verbal(?) context.
 
Southwind17; said:
Re-read cyborg's post, but this time slowly and carefully and with your head sticking just a little bit out of the box! If that doesn't work maybe we'll have to work on that word 'design', which seems to be confusing you when not written in a verbal(?) context.

The theories of the origin of life began with design and have now cast that aside to focus on evolution. To say that life has a design is incorrect, because no one designed them. At best, it's a highly ambiguous statement that puts you somewhere between a biomechanics specialist admiring the function of life and a fundamentalist Christian. Evolutionary scientists, in explaining the origins of life, scrupulously avoid saying life has a "design" because of the misleading impression it gives, namely, that life was designed.
 
No, because we're talking about proving Evolution, and evolution is about the origin of living things and their forms and functions.

No it isn't - the theory provides higher order explanations for those things but does not talk about them explicitly.

In the context of origins, because living things were not designed, they Evolved, wheras machines were designed, they did not evolve.

*Sigh* I don't think you are going to get this.

No, it isn't.

*Sigh* Yes it is.

Do you understand what 'implicit' means?

The Theory of Evolution is the alternative to the theory of design.

No, it really isn't. It's a continuum. I would ask you not to allow your emotional reaction to the dumbassery of ID proponents muddy the waters with equivocations you only think I'm making.
 
To my former TAM roommate,

I haven't been following this thread much.

But I suggest you consider the awesome power of Daniel Dennett's description of evolution:

Unintelligent Design.


This meme slices through Creationist/ID arguments like a hot knife through butter. (If you haven't read "Darwin's Dangerous Idea" yet, you really owe it to yourself to check out. Fantastic book)
 
Perhaps it would be simpler to use fractals as an analogy. Simple formulas resulting in "irreducibly" complex patterns, and such.
You can see the pattern, and not realize the simple math behind it, and think it was a sign of intelligence; until you perform the "hard work" to discover its true origins.


And, by the way, I second the recommendation of Darwin's Dangerous Idea.
 
Well, cathode rays are nothing more than a stream of electrons. And it is electrons passing through the gas that creates the plasma in a plasma screen tv. But then that's kinda being nitpicky.

But you're right it is a bit more closer to a neon sign.

But the point is that it is a directed stream instead of a general flow. And the electron directly hits the phosphors instead of exciting a gas (absent in the CRT) and causing it to emit a bright line spectrum and using that with a coating to change the frequencies(not sure if plasma TV's use direct composition of gas or excited phosphorescent compounds).
 
No, it really isn't. It's a continuum. I would ask you not to allow your emotional reaction to the dumbassery of ID proponents muddy the waters with equivocations you only think I'm making.

There is no continuum. If you're going to make the argument that there is a continuum between design and evolution, please find even a single organism that was created whole cloth by a designer.

You're confusing function with "design." An antenna functions as a chemoreceptor, because that is what it does, but it was not designed for that purpose, because no one designed it. The form and function of an antenna is an emergent property of the forces of genetic drift, natural selection, and sexual selection. Only superficially do life forms have the illusion of “design.” The efficiency, elegance, and redundancy of the human body compares unfavorably to the Ford Pinto. Even the most rudimentary examination of the human body shows that we were clearly not designed by a designer of even abecedarian skill.

We're constantly in danger of choking to death on our food because our two vital intakes, air and sustenance, are "designed" to cross each other.

One of the strongest contributing factors to deaths by heart disease is the curious "design" of our hearts. We have only one artery to supply the entire indefatigable muscle, so a single point of failure in the artery can instantly slay us. Our hearts' arteries are not fail-safe. Any engineer would put in a back-up artery.

Millions of people, possibly billions, throughout history have been afflicted by scurvy at one time or another, a terrible condition brought about by the "design" of our metabolisms, which are curiously unable to make ascorbic acid (Vitamin C) from glucose, which nearly every other animal on the planet can do. Smile toothlessly at our "design!"

Evolution can generate stunningly complex and beautiful forms with functions we've never even dreamed of, but it "designs" nothing. Selection is an impersonal, mindless force that operates on the traits which already exist, and mutation and genetic drift shuffle and reconfigure the traits selection may operate on, but even a tyro designer would not slavishly hang on to bad traits simply because they came with the blueprints, which evolution must unless some felicitous cellular event happens to snip out the "bad" genes without harming the "good." Designers can innovate from whole cloth, putting in only the elements they need to produce something, whereas evolution can only adjust what already exists and invariably saddles life forms with at least the unexpressed genetic remnants of material that is useless at the present. What engineer would stuff an airplane's comparments full of the blueprints of earlier airplanes?

The differences between machines and organisms go beyond the obvious fact that machines do not arise solely from other machines, using information derived from one or more previous machines, but rather are made fresh each time by intelligent actors, machines and organisms have radically different purposes as well because organisms have neither purpose nor design. Organisms are the vehicle for the persistence and distribution of genes and have become such purely by the forces of selection.
 
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There is no continuum.You're confusing function with "design." An antenna functions as a chemoreceptor, because that is what it does, but it was not designed for that purpose, because no one designed it. The form and function of an antenna is an emergent property of the forces of genetic drift, natural selection, and sexual selection. Only superficially do life forms have the illusion of “design.” The efficiency, elegance, and redundancy of the human body compares unfavorably to the Ford Pinto. Even the most rudimentary examination of the human body shows that we were clearly not designed by a designer of even abecedarian skill.

We understand this ID(!), but you're still missing the point. We can observe and study a highly evolved creature or organ and say: 'Wow, that's a neat design.' What we really mean, though, is: 'Wow, that functions exceptionally well.' It really does come back to 'design' being used as a verb or a noun. I suggest we drop the word immediately to avoid further confusion.

Evolution can generate stunningly complex and beautiful forms with functions we've never even dreamed of, but it "designs" nothing.

We're agreed on this.

Selection is an impersonal, mindless force that operates on the traits which already exist, and mutation and genetic drift shuffle and reconfigure the traits selection may operate on ...

... yes, but always with an eye for improvement in the long term, just like technological developments.

... but even a tyro designer would not slavishly hang on to bad traits simply because they came with the blueprints, which evolution must unless some felicitous cellular event happens to snip out the "bad" genes without harming the "good."

Not necessarily. I'm sure we'll look back on many present-day cutting edge designs in decades to come and observe: Gee, that was a cool and sophisticated [fighter jet] with a wicked [targeting system], but remember the [air frame]; what were they thinking?! I suppose it's because they hadn't developed [titanium impregnated carbon fibre self-repairing fabric] at the time.' Designers can only make use of the technology available at the time, until 'evolution' (technological development) takes its course and new materials and innovations emerge. Do you see where I'm coming from here? Don't look too deeply.

Designers can innovate from whole cloth, putting in only the elements they need to produce something, whereas evolution can only adjust what already exists and invariably saddles life forms with at least the unexpressed genetic remnants of material that is useless at the present. What engineer would stuff an airplane's comparments full of the blueprints of earlier airplanes?

See above. It happens all the time, to the point where, looking back, it becomes laughable.

The differences between machines and organisms go beyond the obvious fact that machines do not arise solely from other machines, using information derived from one or more previous machines ...

But they do! OK, not solely, but largely, which is exactly the point. Just consider the developmental history of the microprocessor, for example.

... but rather are made fresh each time by intelligent actors ...

The 'freshness' can be compared to the mutation process in organisms. Something radical happens by chance (often with technology too). It leads to an improvement so is retained for future models, until the next 'mutation'. It's an analogy, not a direct comparison of the exact processes that cause it.

machines and organisms have radically different purposes as well because organisms have neither purpose nor design.

Does a lion not have 'purpose' when stalking prey in an organized pride, or bees when creating a hive and producing honey? They may not realize they have purpose, but then neither does a washing machine, or TV, for example.
The characteristics of such organisms and machines have evolved to improve the functionality necessary to satisfy such purposes.

Organisms are the vehicle for the persistence and distribution of genes and have become such purely by the forces of selection.

That's like saying a TV is a vehicle for the persistence and distribution of transistors, diodes, capacitors, PCBs, etc. The components (genes) are meaningless individually. Only when they lead to the creation of a complete entity do they have any purpose, whether that arises through chance and evolution or otherwise.
 
We understand this ID(!), but you're still missing the point. We can observe and study a highly evolved creature or organ and say: 'Wow, that's a neat design.' What we really mean, though, is: 'Wow, that functions exceptionally well.' It really does come back to 'design' being used as a verb or a noun. I suggest we drop the word immediately to avoid further confusion.

This polemic defender of Evolution concurs!

... yes, but always with an eye for improvement in the long term, just like technological developments.

No. Evolution is not goal-seeking, and selection has a complete short-term bias. There is no such thing as the "long term" in regards to selection. What we would identify as "improvement" is irrelevant to selection. Peacock feathers and stag horns are an immensely costly investment, but males of those species have them simply because females are attracked to them. Runaway sexual selection, as foolish as it appears to us, can seriously harm the "long term" survival of a species. That's just one of many ways in which evolution can dramatically betray its short term bias.

Numerous species have long ago lost keen senses, flight, locomotion, and other traits merely because they did not need them to reproduce in the short term. I'd say a puffin, capable of swimming, flying, and burrowing, is a "superior" bird to a kiwi, but they both are fit in their habitats, which is all the counts, not "improvement." In evolution there are no points for style.



Not necessarily. I'm sure we'll look back on many present-day cutting edge designs in decades to come and observe: Gee, that was a cool and sophisticated [fighter jet] with a wicked [targeting system], but remember the [air frame]; what were they thinking?! I suppose it's because they hadn't developed [titanium impregnated carbon fibre self-repairing fabric] at the time.' Designers can only make use of the technology available at the time, until 'evolution' (technological development) takes its course and new materials and innovations emerge. Do you see where I'm coming from here? Don't look too deeply.

No, I do not see where you are coming from. One the one hand I see machines, each designed by intelligent actors, none of which contains the blueprints for their own development inside themselves, and none of which reproduce and pass on heritable traits, and on the other hand I see life forms. They have less in common than a raven and a writting desk.



See above. It happens all the time, to the point where, looking back, it becomes laughable.



But they do! OK, not solely, but largely, which is exactly the point. Just consider the developmental history of the microprocessor, for example.


The 'freshness' can be compared to the mutation process in organisms. Something radical happens by chance (often with technology too). It leads to an improvement so is retained for future models, until the next 'mutation'. It's an analogy, not a direct comparison of the exact processes that cause it.

Are you seriously suggesting that micropocessors have arisen through selection pressures on reproducing microprocessors, which contain within themselves the mechanisms for their own reproduction, or are you still trying to draw a really tennuous analogy?



Does a lion not have 'purpose' when stalking prey in an organized pride, or bees when creating a hive and producing honey? They may not realize they have purpose, but then neither does a washing machine, or TV, for example.
The characteristics of such organisms and machines have evolved to improve the functionality necessary to satisfy such purposes.

No. The lion was not designed. It has no purpose, only functions. The lion hunts, it also radiates warmth, and has fur. Is the "purpose" of the lion to provide habitat for fleas? Is the "purpose" of the lion to ambush small children who wander too far from their mothers in the night? The lion was not designed, and has no purpose, unlike a televion, or a washing machine.



That's like saying a TV is a vehicle for the persistence and distribution of transistors, diodes, capacitors, PCBs, etc.

Only if TVs reproduced and their survivability in an environment were dependent on the phenotypical traits that the transistors, diodes, capacitors and PCB's give it.

The components (genes) are meaningless individually. Only when they lead to the creation of a complete entity do they have any purpose, whether that arises through chance and evolution or otherwise.

That is why genes don't reproduce on their own. However, genes are extraordinarily selfish. The fitness of the gene is the lowest level on which selection takes place. The effect a gene has on an organism effects the fitness of all the genes in the organism, but organisms can be remarkably selfless, which evolution has selected in favor of.

Altruism is a fascinating area of research in biology. A single worker ant can never directly pass on its genes, and thus is a highly "unfit" individual, if you focus on the ant alone. What the ant does, however, is dramatically increase the fitness of the genes it shares with its mother, the queen ant. In the case of ants, the genes have had the effect of using a vast number of organisms to reproduce the genes within a single, solitary organism. Evolution relentlessly pushes genes to be selfishly fit. Organisms are just along for the ride. When selection favors blind, deaf, dumb, limbless organisms, the genes that give rise to such a blob flurish, the organism be damned.
 
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OK - I think we're getting bogged down in theory and detail here and losing the thread.

Let's reconsider the time traveller in the OP. Suppose we take him to the aquarium to see some sharks and then to a motor museum. He's impressed with the sharks, and their ability to hunt and kill prey. He's equally impressed with the latest Mercedes C-Klasse model W204 and all it's various features. Notwithstanding the sharks' 'honed' abilities he can clearly see that they're produced by nature, whereas the Merc is not. The Merc's technological advancement (assuming he can even appreciate it) leads him to maintain the view that it cannot be of this Earth. The raw materials surely cannot be manipulated to that extent.

However, We then go on to show him the predecessor to the W204. It looks essentially the same; not quite the same features and performance, but it's easy to see the 'ancestry'. We go farther back in history, and, yes, the lineage is pretty clear. We then get right back to the 1886 Benz-Patent Motorwagen, and our time traveller is still on board. He's probably mind-boggled even with this antiquated offering, so we start teaching him about the materials from which it's made, and explain how we can make metal from ores, and paint from refined and adapted crude oil, with pigments from plants added. Eventually, he begins to appreciate how the K-Classe originted from a combination of earth-derived materials and gradual, incremental development. We then go through the same process with the shark (assuming we have preserved specimens going back to the 'early models).

We choose not to try to explain the principles of biological evolution or design technology to him; he won't understand them, and it's not important to the experience anyhow. What he does realize though, now, is that, from an in-principle observational perspective, the Merc is really no different from the shark. He can see now how both came about through gradual, incremental change.

He concludes that each incremental 'model' of the shark, working backwards, had function and features pertinent to its time, just like the Merc, and every part of its functionality can be explained and has a 'purpose'. Yes, some parts gradually became superfluous, or even obsolete, but he can see how they've been eradicated over time.

What this shows is that, whilst certain elements of the natural world around us might on the face of it seem irreducibly complex and, therefore, must have a goal-seeking 'design' driving them, so do advanced technologies, but we know that they're not. Yes, they might essentially be driven by goal-seeking design, BUT the analogy would still hold true if every incremental change had been adopted through trial and error, or even fluke, with no particular 'goal' in mind (and I guess many actually are).

Forget about the comparison between the biology behind the shark and the DT behind the Merc. That's not relevant to my point. It should be easy to imagine how, given time, a Merc W204 could come about by random manipulation and combination of raw materials plus selective retention of beneficial characters and features. The only thing that 'goal-seeking design' does is reduce the time needed.
 
There is no continuum.

Yes, there is.

If you're going to make the argument that there is a continuum between design and evolution, please find even a single organism that was created whole cloth by a designer.

*Sigh* You are not getting this at all - let me try to explain.

In a completely evolutionary process the entire process is consistently a posteriori in how 'knowledge' about the 'correct' functioning of a 'design' is built.

In a completely non-evolutionary process the entire process is consistently a priori in how 'knowledge' about the 'correct' functioning of a 'design' is built.

Or, put more simply it is a question of prototyping. In evolution ALL designs are prototypes. In a completely non-evolutionary system NO designs are prototypes.

Now, you tell me: do we use prototyping in developing our machines? Do we exclusively use prototyping? Do we have a continuum here?

Will a carbon-based machine created 'artificially' rather than 'naturally' have a 'design' the other one lacks? What if the artificially created one is indistinguishable from the naturally created one?

Look, don't blame me because other people don't understand what they are really saying when they use words: I do. This is why I have no problem talking about the 'design' of an organism. The idea that there is really something rather fundamentally different going on when a man builds a machine as opposed to nature is wrong - it simply is.

Again, it is not about origins. That is a red herring. Evolution (in the broadest sense) makes statements about change - not origin.

I already know that certain things apply specifically to biology - but then if we are restricted to only discussing the concept of evolution with regards to biological systems this basically amounts to saying: "analogies not allowed."

You're confusing function with "design."

No.

...Various facts about facets of biological entities I'm already aware of...

Yes. I know this.

The differences between machines and organisms go beyond the obvious fact that machines do not arise solely from other machines, using information derived from one or more previous machines, but rather are made fresh each time by intelligent actors,

They are?

Hmm... and here was me thinking that we had big factories making things like this computer where machines arise solely from other machines and humans don't get that involved...

machines and organisms have radically different purposes as well because organisms have neither purpose nor design.

Are you telling me 'no purpose' is a radically different 'purpose'? I don't think you mean that - but there is a rather telling fallacy about assuming the words are really absolutely incompatible don't you think?

Organisms are the vehicle for the persistence and distribution of genes and have become such purely by the forces of selection.

If my computer doesn't computer it's not going to persist.
 
Yes, there is.

Please provide evidence of living things that arose whole cloth from design. Find even one and your assertion that there is a continuum will be founded in fact.



*Sigh* You are not getting this at all - let me try to explain.

No. I understand your point. I don't disagree because I misunderstand, I disagree your point is completely wrong.

Or, put more simply it is a question of prototyping. In evolution ALL designs are prototypes. In a completely non-evolutionary system NO designs are prototypes.

There are no designs in evolution.

Now, you tell me: do we use prototyping in developing our machines? Do we exclusively use prototyping? Do we have a continuum here?

No, because machines do reproduce and pass on heritable traits. Machines and living things are entirely dissimilar in origin.

Will a carbon-based machine created 'artificially' rather than 'naturally' have a 'design' the other one lacks? What if the artificially created one is indistinguishable from the naturally created one?

Since I didn't claim that natural laws apply exclusively to living things, I don't see what the point of this strawman is.

Look, don't blame me because other people don't understand what they are really saying when they use words: I do. This is why I have no problem talking about the 'design' of an organism.
You should. You should have a problem with it, and stop using it.

The idea that there is really something rather fundamentally different going on when a man builds a machine as opposed to nature is wrong - it simply is.

You keep saying that, but you've failed to show any similarity between the origin of repducing things which pass on heritable traits, and things built by intelligent actors.

Again, it is not about origins. That is a red herring. Evolution (in the broadest sense) makes statements about change - not origin.

False. The Theory of Evolution is an explaination for the origin of species. "The Origin of Species," that would make a great title for a book, but what would it be about, I wonder?

I already know that certain things apply specifically to biology - but then if we are restricted to only discussing the concept of evolution with regards to biological systems this basically amounts to saying: "analogies not allowed."

Analogies between the origin of living things and the origin of machines are not allowed because machines do not reproduce and pass on heritable traits. It's a false start.


Hmm... and here was me thinking that we had big factories making things like this computer where machines arise solely from other machines and humans don't get that involved...

Yes, computers are produced in factories, they are not produced by other computers, which pass on heritable traits. There is no such thing as a lion factory, where the design of lions is reviewed for the upcoming Christmas production line.


If my computer doesn't computer it's not going to persist.

If grammar you do not use, meaning cannot be parsed.
 
There are no designs in evolution.

You should. You should have a problem with it, and stop using it.

cyborg: I'm completely with you on this, but I agree with ID that you need to drop the word 'design'. Until you do ID isn't going to see the distinction, and will continue to miss the point. Try 'functionality' instead?
 
However, We then go on to show him the predecessor to the W204.

This is where your analogy begins falls apart. The "predecessor the the W204" is not the parent of the W204. The predecessor of the shark, however, passed on heritable traits.

That's just one of the two reasons this comparison doesn't work. The other reason is that evolution does not seek the goal of making "better" organisms. It's entirely mindless. The reason there's two different machines is because they were deliberately designed to be different. The reason there's two different sharks is because a mommy and daddy shark loved each other very much and the randomly sorted and combined shark-making-recipies produced a slightly different shark.
 
Please provide evidence of living things that arose whole cloth from design. Find even one and your assertion that there is a continuum will be founded in fact.

FFS.

1) NOTHING - and I literally mean nothing - CAN originate from whole cloth design unless you want to posit there's a god out there with a priori knowledge of design (which I'm kinda guessing you don't want to do). Otherwise you're going to have to get the point sometime that a priori has to follow a posterori.
2) The way you have used terminology - ironically since you're berating me for terminological use - makes it impossible to fulfill your request anyway since nothing can 'arise whole cloth' from 'design' since you mean that word to specifically refer to something that does not 'arise' from it.

No. I understand your point. I don't disagree because I misunderstand, I disagree your point is completely wrong.

No you misunderstand.

No actually you dileberately misunderstand because of your emotional rejection of a word.

No, because machines do reproduce and pass on heritable traits.

Now you're just being stupid if you want to claim that this means we do not prototype.

Machines and living things are entirely dissimilar in origin.

Irrelevant to the concept of evolution.

Since I didn't claim that natural laws apply exclusively to living things, I don't see what the point of this strawman is.

It is not a strawman - this is the consequence of you choosing to make an inconsequential matter of the originating design consequential to the evolutionary process.

You should. You should have a problem with it, and stop using it.

Should I now? And why is this again?

Oh right, it's because of the whole "Intelligent Design" movement.

You know there's something that just sits uneasy with me about this whole "design is intelligent" thing and the fact that the movement is not called the "Design" movement but I guess I'm just too stupid to see what it is.

You keep saying that, but you've failed to show any similarity between the origin of repducing things which pass on heritable traits, and things built by intelligent actors.

*Sigh* That's because origins are irrelevant.

Evolution talks about how things change - not where you are now or were before.

False. The Theory of Evolution is an explaination for the origin of species.

Yes it is. But it is NOT a statement about the origin ITSELF.

This is why there is the old cliché of, "evolution doesn't mean a god didn't kick it off." You CANNOT use evolutionary theory to rule out somebody coming along and 'designing' things at some random stage. What you CAN use it to do is formulate an explanation for the origins in which such events do not happen.

A statement about the origin itself would be of the class of unsupprotable statement you are vehemently trying to persuade me that I endorse by using the innocent little word you are seeing as somehow incredibly dangerous.

Analogies between the origin of living things and the origin of machines are not allowed because machines do not reproduce and pass on heritable traits. It's a false start.

You are grossly wrong I'm afraid.

There is no such physical thing as 'reproduction' or 'heritable traits' - these are metaphysical. As such continuing to point to a physical entity and telling me it does not have those things is stupid - these are statements about change or configuration.

So let me try again:

What is a 'trait' as it relates to a physical (ANY physical) entity?

What is it that determines what is 'heritable' about 'traits'?

When do we recognise one object as a 'reproduction' of another one?

Yes, computers are produced in factories, they are not produced by other computers, which pass on heritable traits.

Irrelvant. Yet again I return to the theme here: SELF-reproduction is not necessary. (Hell, SELF-reproduction strictly doesn't occur anyway: living things don't split their atoms in half to reproduce, they have to run little machines to do it gathering up new atoms to build the new stuff).

There is no such thing as a lion factory, where the design of lions is reviewed for the upcoming Christmas production line.

Two words: Genetic. Engerineering.

If grammar you do not use, meaning cannot be parsed.

You parsed the meaning fine.
 
FFS.

1) NOTHING - and I literally mean nothing - CAN originate from whole cloth design unless you want to posit there's a god out there with a priori knowledge of design (which I'm kinda guessing you don't want to do). Otherwise you're going to have to get the point sometime that a priori has to follow a posterori.
2) The way you have used terminology - ironically since you're berating me for terminological use - makes it impossible to fulfill your request anyway since nothing can 'arise whole cloth' from 'design' since you mean that word to specifically refer to something that does not 'arise' from it.

False. If you design an airplane, you do not need the blueprints of other airplanes to make it, and airplanes are not made directly from the mingled blueprints of other airplanes.

The rest of your post isn't worth responding to. You fail to grasp the fundamental differences between design and evolution, and why despite superificla similarities, the origin and function of living things requires an entirely different explaination than the explaination of machines.
 
False. If you design an airplane, you do not need the blueprints of other airplanes to make it, and airplanes are not made directly from the mingled blueprints of other airplanes.

So the new Airbus AA380 was 'designed' from scratch, with complete disregard to the 'designs' of its predecessors, and with no reference to aeronautical engineering practice and principles that have been learned from the past? OK - I'm gonna need a little more convincing - please?
 
So the new Airbus AA380 was 'designed' from scratch, with complete disregard to the 'designs' of its predecessors,

It has no parents, no heritable traits, and no reproduction. What the heck are you comparing its origin to the origin of a living thing for in the first place?
 
False. If you design an airplane, you do not need the blueprints of other airplanes to make it, and airplanes are not made directly from the mingled blueprints of other airplanes.

I was wrong then. You do want to tell me god gave man fire.
 

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