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What about the Jordanian nuclear program?

Puppycow said:
OTOH, isn't the president just a figurehead with little real power in Iran?
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Basically, yes. He has no power at all. His only function is to
press the "Nuclear-Bomb-Button" to finally erase Israel from
the pages of time... At least according to Fox and Friends...
 
Matteo Martini said:
Oliver, I have to insist.
I am talking about this video, and the comment " Death to Israel ".
Please, comment on this sentence and this video
Thanks
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Even if he didn't say "Death to Israel" by himself but quoted:
"...with placards in their hands and clenched fists, they shout:
Death to Israel", I see what you're getting at.

Which is: Iran's public opinion is pretty anti-Israeli. Yet they
also have the biggest Jewish community within the Muslim
World. So it looks like this is really about Israel and Zionism
rather than about Jewish People.

Their argument basically is that Israels behavior towards
Palestinians is aggressive, oppressive and violating human
rights. And hell yeah - that's true - and the result of Israels
own politics.

So? Well, even if I don't endorse Statements like "Death
to Israel", I also see no reason to intervene at this point
because...

A: The US would have to proof that Iran is trying to use their
reactor to build nuclear weapons.

B: Iran is no threat to the US.

C: It's unlikely that Iran will start a nuclear Attack against
the biggest Nuclear Power in the Region.

D: If Iran is seeking Nuclear Energy, that's their very
right since they are a sovereign country.

E: If Iran seeks the advantage to posses nuclear weapons
as a deterrence factor - just like the US or Israel - they
have every right to do so - being a sovereign country.

F: Israel will blow up Iran's nuclear facilities anyway - just
like the one in Iraq.


So? What's the Paranoia Propaganda about?
I think it's fair to assume it is this one - once again:

"SaddamAhmadinejadWMDMushroomcloudsOMG!AlQaidaHamasDoomsday"

...a political charade - which will finally result in even more
anger instead laying out the cornerstones which could lead
to peace and harmony.

Because US-Foreign Policies are a catastrophe - and you*
don't even have to be Anti-American to think this way,
you're* rather Anti-American yourself if you* cannot
understand this fact. Or a feeble-minded Idiot.

*Generally speaking - not personally

So the solution would be a foreign policy that plays a
neutral role - and establishes the same rights for all the
"players" involved. Even if this means that the time of
playing the tough big-balled Supermachoidiot may be over.
 
Oliver said:
So? Well, even if I don't endorse Statements like "Death
to Israel",
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Wait a sec... does that mean that you're actually admitting that the Iranian president did make statements with the implied suggestion of 'death to Israel' or 'wipe Israel off the map'?
I also see no reason to intervene at this point
because...

A: The US would have to proof that Iran is trying to use their
reactor to build nuclear weapons.
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So, the fact that Iran made several agreements to allow its nuclear techology subject to international review and then went back on their word is not important?
B: Iran is no threat to the US.
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Why exactly do you say that? If Iraq did posess a nuclear weapon, they could in theory attack the U.S. simply by sending the bomb to North America in some cargo ship. No need for expensive missles.

Why would they do it? Perhaps the leaders in Iraq believe that the lives of any Iranians killed in retaliation are simply not important if it is in the glory of allah. Or perhaps they feel the U.S. will not risk retaliation against 'innocent' civilian targets.

C: It's unlikely that Iran will start a nuclear Attack against
the biggest Nuclear Power in the Region.
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Again, why assume that? We've already seen that the Iranian leadership hates Israel more than it loves its own people. (We saw that when they refused Israeli aid following the earthquake in Bam... they'd rather see their own citizens die than accept aid from Israel.)

D: If Iran is seeking Nuclear Energy, that's their very
right since they are a sovereign country.
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Yes the are a sovereign country, but they've also signed agreements allowing international inspections of their nuclear technology. They have failed to follow through on their agreements.
E: If Iran seeks the advantage to posses nuclear weapons
as a deterrence factor - just like the US or Israel - they
have every right to do so - being a sovereign country.
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No, they do not.

As has been explained previously, Iran signed the Nuclear Non-poliferation treaty... Isreal did not.
F: Israel will blow up Iran's nuclear facilities anyway - just
like the one in Iraq.
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Not likely.

Iran is much further from Israel than Iraq was. Israeli planes not likely be able to fly the distance to Iran, attack them, and return safely without running out of fuel.
 
It's great for the USA that Jordan have a nuclear power program.
It means that if ever Jordan disobeys or has a popular uprising then the USA has a ready made pretext to invade.
;)
 
Oliver said:
Because US-Foreign Policies are a catastrophe - and you* don't even have to be Anti-American to think this way, you're* rather Anti-American yourself if you* cannot understand this fact. Or a feeble-minded Idiot.
Click to expand...

So basically you will never listen to contrary opinions, because only you are the bright one and anyone else is an idiot.

Got it.

The only problem is, this is a discussion forum.
 
Oliver said:
Yet theyalso have the biggest Jewish community within the Muslim
World.
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Not for a lack of trying. Link.
Between 1948 and 2006, the population of Iranian Jews dropped by 75%. Recently, the Iranian government arrested 13 Jewish citizens on alleged charges of spying for Israel. Several were sent to prison, though there was no evidence of actual espionage.

While the popularity of a tv show in Iran about an Iranian Diplomat who saves Jews from the Holocaust certainly indicates that the populace at large is not antisemitic, the government of Iran appears to be virulently antisemitic.

While it is useful to distinguish the two, particularly in a theocracy like Iran, the distinction only gets us so far, particularly in Iran, where the people at large have little political power.

So it looks like this is really about Israel and Zionism rather than about Jewish People.
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I doubt that. The people left in Iran are mostly the elderly. The thriving population of Persian Jews -- a culture that had lived continuously in the region since before the Diaspora -- lives mostly outside of Iran today. It's a cultural loss for Iran, imo.
 
Pardalis said:
So basically you will never listen to contrary opinions, because only you are the bright one and anyone else is an idiot.

Got it.

The only problem is, this is a discussion forum.
Click to expand...


Not exactly. The difference is that I thought it through and
everyone who completely disagrees nevertheless is indeed
at least close to what society would probably call an Idiot.
Or blindfolded Patriot. Or maybe just scared, whiny wiener. :p

But seriously - Do you have any counterarguments this time
and what is your opinion regarding the Jordan-U.S. Nuclear
Agreement. Is Jordan okay to you?
 
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marksman said:
Not for a lack of trying. Link.
Between 1948 and 2006, the population of Iranian Jews dropped by 75%. Recently, the Iranian government arrested 13 Jewish citizens on alleged charges of spying for Israel. Several were sent to prison, though there was no evidence of actual espionage.

While the popularity of a tv show in Iran about an Iranian Diplomat who saves Jews from the Holocaust certainly indicates that the populace at large is not antisemitic, the government of Iran appears to be virulently antisemitic.

While it is useful to distinguish the two, particularly in a theocracy like Iran, the distinction only gets us so far, particularly in Iran, where the people at large have little political power.


I doubt that. The people left in Iran are mostly the elderly. The thriving population of Persian Jews -- a culture that had lived continuously in the region since before the Diaspora -- lives mostly outside of Iran today. It's a cultural loss for Iran, imo.
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Well, CNN reported that Iran has the largest Jewish Community
within a Muslim country - and that they respect them, their
religion and Synagogues:

http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/vide...dle.east.persian.history.cnn?iref=videosearch

At the time of the establishment of the state of Israel in 1948, there were approximately 140,000–150,000 Jews living in Iran, the historical center of Persian Jewry. Over 85% have since migrated to either Israel or the United States.

Source: Wikipedia: History of the Jews in Iran
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Oliver said:
Well, CNN reported that Iran has the largest Jewish Community
within a Muslim country
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They do have the largest. However, since most Muslim countries have entirely exiled their Jewish communities, the fact that Iran cause only 75% of their Jewish communities to flee since 1945 isn't a lot to brag about. It's like bragging about being the "nicest bully in town".

they respect them, their religion and Synagogues
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That's highly debatable, given that the only Jews left in Iran are the elderly and the poor. Iran is definitely less hostile to Judaism than Saudi Arabia or Egypt. However, that's not really saying a whole lot.
 
marksman said:
That's highly debatable, given that the only Jews left in Iran are the elderly and the poor. Iran is definitely less hostile to Judaism than Saudi Arabia or Egypt. However, that's not really saying a whole lot.
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That is saying that Iran is definitely less hostile to Judaism than Saudi Arabia or Egypt.
 
Matteo Martini said:
That is saying that Iran is definitely less hostile to Judaism than Saudi Arabia or Egypt.
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But Saudi Arabia and Egypt are friends. They can do whatever
they want - and even the classified pages in the 9/11 commission
report about the Saudi connection doesn't matter among friends.
Oh man, you gotta love to live in this kind of democrazy.

And funny enough: Jordan is also blabbering about "pursuing plans
to develop a nuclear program for peaceful purposes [OMG!1!!],
King Abdullah told an Israeli newspaper."

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2007/01/19/jordan-nuclear.html

To me this sounds like Jordan will bomb Israel off the map. [/sarcasm]
 
marksman said:
Which isn't saying much, since Egypt and Saudi Arabia are quite hostile to Judaism.
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Shhhht. One after another. First we had to blame Iraq, then Iran and
then it probably will be Pakistan before we can get to the Saudis and
later on to Jordan. I guess we can agree that Fox will tell us who comes
after Ahmadinejad. :boxedin:
 
Deleted because trying to get Oliver's to observe netiquette at this point seems pointless.
 
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marksman said:
Deleted because trying to get Oliver's to observe netiquette at this point seems pointless.
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Sorry, but it's the sad truth. Reason and logic went down
the toilet in some of the MSM for some reasons I fail to grasp.
 
Oliver said:
Even if he didn't say "Death to Israel" by himself but quoted:
"...with placards in their hands and clenched fists, they shout:
Death to Israel", I see what you're getting at.

Which is: Iran's public opinion is pretty anti-Israeli. Yet they
also have the biggest Jewish community within the Muslim
World. So it looks like this is really about Israel and Zionism
rather than about Jewish People.

[..]
Click to expand...

So, we both agree that Ahmadinejad is not behaving right in fostering hatred against Israel?
BTW
Do not start to say that the US and Israel, too, were not behaving right in other occasions..
 
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