Quotes from Lord Bertrand Russell

[matrixcutter]

The following quotes come from The Impact of Science on Society (1953) and The Scientific Outlook (1931), by Lord Bertrand Russell:

Many people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do.

I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is mass psychology. Its importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda. Of these, the most influential is what is called 'education.' Religion plays a part, though a diminishing one; the press, the cinema, and the radio play an increasing part. It may be hoped that in time anybody will be able to persuade anybody of anything, if he can catch the patient young and is provided by the State with money and equipment. Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated. When the technique has been perfected, every government that has been in charge of education for a generation will be able to control its subjects securely, without the need of armies or policemen.

Edited by Katana: 

Edited to remove rule 4 breach. For links to removed material, see this post.

 

[KingMerv00]

Do you have a opinion of those quotes?

A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand.

Bertrand Russell

 

[matrixcutter]

Yes, I have an opinion about those quotes.

I wanted to find out about others' opinions though.
I see that they seem to be over your head, or were you merely following me around?

 

[Fnord]

So, Mr. Russel was an advocate for mind-control, absolute conformity of the masses to government will, the execution of opposition, and a rulers-versus-ruled mindset.

Was he a closet Moslem?

 

[matrixcutter]

So, Mr. Russel was an advocate for mind-control, absolute conformity of the masses to government will, the execution of opposition, and a rulers-versus-ruled mindset.

Was he a closet Moslem?

No, he was an elitist, aristocratic British Lord working on behalf of the British Crown.

Why did you single out Moslems? What have you got against Moslems that you haven't got against members of other religions?

 

[KingMerv00]

Yes, I have an opinion about those quotes.

It is just odd to start a thread simply to post a bunch of quotes. Most people state a premise.

I wanted to find out about others' opinions though.

OK. I don't like propaganda. Without more context it is hard to tell whether or not Russell supported mass psychology or merely predicted it.

I see that they seem to be over your head...

Nope...though you did ignore my quote.

or were you merely following me around?

Actually, that was a coincidence. Though now I am interested in your other threads.

 

[matrixcutter]

This could be the start of a beautiful friendship.

Incidentally, I think the following quote gives an indication of the kind of psychopath (did I say psychopath, I meant great man) Bertrand Russell was:

At present the population of the world is increasing ... War so far has had no great effect on this increase ... I do not pretend that birth control is the only way in which population can be kept from increasing. There are others ... If a Black Death could be spread throughout the world once in every generation, survivors could procreate freely without making the world too full ... the state of affairs might be somewhat unpleasant, but what of it? Really high-minded people are indifferent to suffering, especially that of others.

 

[Fnord]

No, he was an elitist, aristocratic British Lord working on behalf of the British Crown.

Then he was a secular elitist - one who believes that only a 'special class' of people should be allowed to rule, and that everyone else is destined to be trodden under foot. George Orwell described this best:

"If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever." -- George Orwell

Why did you single out Moslems?

Current Islamic teachings indicate a similar mind-set of the rulers over the ruled as did Mr. Russel; thought-control, absolute conformity of the masses to government will, the execution of opposition, and an elite-rulers-versus-subjugated-ruled mindset.

What have you got against Moslems that you haven't got against members of other religions?

They have not yet been quelled like so many others. There still exists an uncontrollable fraction of Islam that refuses to submit to secular authority. Except for a few radical fundie groups and and doomsday cults (Branch Davidians, People's Temple, Heaven's Gate et cetera), most Christian sects acknowledge the primacy of the government in secular matters. Islam does not.

 

[KingMerv00]

This could be the start of a beautiful friendship.

Doubt you'll be able to stomach the boards long enough.

I agree with some of Russell's views but not all of them. He was, for his time, a progessive figure in sufferage, race, and the free use of birth control. I completely support his views on the scientific method.

Incidentally, I think the following quote gives an indication of the kind of psychopath (did I say psychopath, I meant great man) Bertrand Russell was:

Do you have a primary source on that quote so I can see it in context? I sense sarcasm on the speaker's part but I might be wrong.

 

[marting]

Quotes out of context are pretty meaningless. Give the context link and perhaps one can have a fruitful discussion.

 

[LibraryLady]

This is interesting because I just decided last week that I need to read Russell, and am finishing up Science and Religion. I remember him being on talk shows when I was a kid.

 

[Foster Zygote]

The following quotes come from The Impact of Science on Society (1953) and The Scientific Outlook (1931), by Lord Bertrand Russell:

The quotes you have selected are from an examination of the abuses and potential abuses of modern totalitarian regimes. Nowhere does Russell state that he advocates these abuses or feels them to be justified.

These are some quotes that do state his moral position regarding oppression:

One who believes as I do, that free intellect is the chief engine of human progress, cannot but be fundamentally opposed to Bolshevism as much as to the Church of Rome. The hopes which inspire communism are, in the main, as admirable as those instilled by the Sermon on the Mount, but they are held as fanatically and are as likely to do as much harm.

– Bertrand Russell, The Practice and Theory of Bolshevism, 1920

Russell wrote that some men opposed suffrage because they "fear that their liberty to act in ways that are injurious to women will be curtailed."

 

[drkitten]

Incidentally, I think the following quote gives an indication of the kind of psychopath (did I say psychopath, I meant great man) Bertrand Russell was:

Um, did you actually look at the quotation you parrotted? I'm vaguely familiar with it; in context, it's an argument about making birth control more freely available, because the only alternative methods for reducing or controlling the Mathusian population explosion are ineffective, gruesome, or both.

It's hardly psychopathic for someone to point out that if the world population is too large, birth control is a better method of fixing the problem than starting world war three or waiting for a new pandemic.

Similarly, if you look at the quotations in the OP, it's fairly obvious that Russell is an opponent of the modern propaganda-state (Hint: "the very evils of the system help to give it stability" should have been a strong indicator). On the other hand, he was also smart enough to recognize the emerging trend, and was not afraid to name it and describe it in detail....

 

[Foster Zygote]

This could be the start of a beautiful friendship.

Incidentally, I think the following quote gives an indication of the kind of psychopath (did I say psychopath, I meant great man) Bertrand Russell was:

At present the population of the world is increasing ... War so far has had no great effect on this increase ... I do not pretend that birth control is the only way in which population can be kept from increasing. There are others ... If a Black Death could be spread throughout the world once in every generation, survivors could procreate freely without making the world too full ... the state of affairs might be somewhat unpleasant, but what of it? Really high-minded people are indifferent to suffering, especially that of others.

This statement of Russell's, Like Swift's Modest Proposal, is sarcastic. Russell's point was that birth control is the best way to control population increase because the alternatives involve death and suffering on a massive scale. Russell is being facetious, saying in essence "Well if you don't like birth control there are alternatives like deadly plagues".

 

[Foster Zygote]

The following quotes come from The Impact of Science on Society (1953) and The Scientific Outlook (1931), by Lord Bertrand Russell:

Many people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do.

Might I ask what you find to be objectionable about this first quote? Russell is pointing out the value of thinking. He is saying that a great many people die for lack of thinking.

 

[KingMerv00]

This statement of Russell's, Like Swift's Modest Proposal, is sarcastic. Russell's point was that birth control is the best way to control population increase because the alternatives involve death and suffering on a massive scale. Russell is being facetious, saying in essence "Well if you don't like birth control there are alternatives like deadly plagues".

Do you know the source?

 

[Fnord]

George Orwell described this best:

"If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever." -- George Orwell

... from the novel "1984." Here is the Plot Summary.

 

[Foster Zygote]

Do you know the source?

I'll see if I can find it. I read it years ago. I couldn't have done more than paraphrase it but upon seeing it again I recognized it. It's from one of Russell's writings advocating birth control. That's why I immediately recognized it as being presented out of context. Matrixcutter seems unaware of the full body of Russell's work or he would know that he was a pacifist who was concerned with issues of human suffering, equality and freedom.

 

[maccy]

Granted, these are from Wikipedia, but here a couple of quotes that should provide some useful context:

In 1950, Russell was made a Nobel Laureate in Literature, "in recognition of his varied and significant writings in which he champions humanitarian ideals and freedom of thought".[4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertrand_Russell

Russell spent the 1950s and 1960s engaged in various political causes, primarily related to nuclear disarmament and opposing the U.S. invasion of Vietnam. He wrote a great many letters to world leaders during this period. He also became a hero to many of the youthful members of the New Left. During the 1960s, in particular, Russell became increasingly vocal about his disapproval of what he felt to be the American government's near-genocidal policies. In 1963 he became the inaugural recipient of the Jerusalem Prize, an award for writers concerned with the freedom of the individual in society.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertrand_Russell#Political_causes

Also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertrand_Russell#Russell.27s_activism

 

[matrixcutter]

Then he was a secular elitist - one who believes that only a 'special class' of people should be allowed to rule, and that everyone else is destined to be trodden under foot. George Orwell described this best:

"If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever." -- George Orwell

Absolutely.

Incidentally, there is an interview on vyzygoth.com this week, in which he mentions the book within the book in 1984, and how he believes that Orwell was revealing some information about scientific/technological development.

It's this one, 58 minutes in:
Vyz on Gorightly’s show
There was also a 9-part series he did on Ian Slater's Orwell: The Road to Airstrip One, which I think he refers to in the interview. (I can put them up on rapidshare/megaupload if anyone wants them.)

Current Islamic teachings indicate a similar mind-set of the rulers over the ruled as did Mr. Russel; thought-control, absolute conformity of the masses to government will, the execution of opposition, and an elite-rulers-versus-subjugated-ruled mindset.

Perhaps you can draw parallels. There are certainly Moslems who don't fall into this mindset.

They have not yet been quelled like so many others. There still exists an uncontrollable fraction of Islam that refuses to submit to secular authority. Except for a few radical fundie groups and and doomsday cults (Branch Davidians, People's Temple, Heaven's Gate et cetera), most Christian sects acknowledge the primacy of the government in secular matters. Islam does not.

So there are both Christian groups and Islamic groups who are not keen on rules being imposed on them from outside, and other groups.

Are there any groups interacting with these Moslem groups you have in mind? What effect, if any, do they have?



And incidentally, Bertrand Russell experimented with children, encouraging pre-pubertal sexual activity between them so as to look into the long-term effects this would have (fully backed by the Crown). He was not a good egg, though some people seem to want to give him the benefit of the doubt.