The Viking Leif Ericson was a Christian Evangelist

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joobz said:
this is very true.
All I can say is that I'm gald that I live in the GREAT SECULAR NATION, the United States, whose constitution was designed to protect the people from such small minded, evil ideas.
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The GREAT SECULAR NATION whose national motto is "In God we Trust".
 
DOC said:
The GREAT SECULAR NATION whose national motto is "In God we Trust".
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Yep...

The same nation that is hell-bent on imposing - on them thar Middle-Earthers - democracy (even if the majority those ingrates don't want it) and peace (even if it kills 'em)

Yeah....

riiiiiiiiiight...

This logic makes so much.... ummmm.... sense...
 
Mojo said:
Are you suggesting that if Christianity had been introduced earlier, Ericson might not have gone to America?
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No, In fact it is possible his Christianity gave him the courage (knowing God was with him) and even the inspiration to make the dangerous mission into unknown territory.

Columbus said without a doubt it was the Holy Spirit who inspired him to make his voyage -- who knows, the same thing could have happened to Ericson.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2806831#post2806831
 
DOC said:
No, In fact it is possible his Christianity gave him the courage (knowing God was with him) and even the inspiration to make the dangerous mission into unknown territory.

Columbus said without a doubt it was the Holy Spirit who inspired him to make his voyage -- who knows, the same thing could have happened to Ericson.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2806831#post2806831
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So basically you have no clue what type of faith Ericson really had, and what that faith might have moved Ericson to do (because it isn't like Vikings as pagans weren't well travelled or anything) but you have decided because it fits your belief system that it is probable if not in fact true. Very nice for you to be untroubled by the real world like that.
 
DOC said:
No, In fact it is possible...
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These words don't really go together...

Facts being 'black or white'

Possibilities being somewhat grey

Are you sure your on the right forum? Critical thinking etc? It seems this whole idea is based on a few words from one website... and then qualified by the word 'possible'

Hmmmm...
 
In 1014, the Archbishop Wulfstan wrote a sermon to the English when the Danes were persecuting them most severely. Called "Sermo Lupi", it begins:

Beloved men, recognise what the truth is: this world is in haste and it is drawing near the end - there fore the longer it is the worse it will get in the world. And it needs must thus become very much worse as a result of the peoples' sins prior to the Advent of the Antichrist, and then indeed it will be terrible and cruel throughout the world. Understand properly also that for many years now the Devil has led tis nation too far astray and that there has been little loyalty among men although they speak fair, and too many wrongs have prevailed in the land.
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Source: The Adventure of English by Melvyn Bragg, 2003.

The Archbishop clearly believed that the Danes were a harbinger of the Apocalypse, widely believed to be due a thousand years after Christ's birth or death. This was also a time when Christianity was spreading throughout the Scandanavian kingdoms.

Just thought I'd throw that out there. Food for thought.
 
No, In fact it is possible his Christianity gave him the courage (knowing God was with him) and even the inspiration to make the dangerous mission into unknown territory.
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The Vikings undertook great journeys and had some of the world's best vessels long before they became Christian.
 
DOC said:
No, In fact it is possible his Christianity gave him the courage (knowing God was with him) and even the inspiration to make the dangerous mission into unknown territory.

Columbus said without a doubt it was the Holy Spirit who inspired him to make his voyage -- who knows, the same thing could have happened to Ericson.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2806831#post2806831
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You do know that Erikson didn't discover either Greenland or NorthAm, right?

Greenland was first discovered by Gunnbjørn Ulfsson, a "heathen", by accident. And then settled by Leiv's father, Eric the Red, another heathen. Why he settled Greenland? He was kicked off Iceland for murder. Why was he on Iceland? He was kicked out of Norway for murder.
God moves in mysterious ways?

Going to NorthAm proper to settle wasn't a voyage into the unknown either. Bjarni Herjólfsson had missed Greenland and sailed up along the coast before him. And the "mission" was no more dangerous than sailing back and forth between Norway, Iceland and Greenland. Sure it's insanely dangerous by present day standards, but to Leif it would have been business as usual, and he certainly didn't need god's shoulder to cry on when he made the voyage eastwards.
 
six7s said:
These words don't really go together...

Facts being 'black or white'

Possibilities being somewhat grey

Are you sure your on the right forum? Critical thinking etc? It seems this whole idea is based on a few words from one website... and then qualified by the word 'possible'

Hmmmm...
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Is it a fact that life came from non living chemicals or just a possibility.

Are you saying critical thinking scientists would not deal in possibilities because facts and possibilities don't go together.
 
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Parsman said:
So basically you have no clue what type of faith Ericson really had, and what that faith might have moved Ericson to do...
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I know he had enough faith to accept Christianity, be baptized, and convert his mother so that she got her husband (Eric the Red) to build a church. Also, this website said Ericson brought back a priest and Christian teachers to Greenland. That sounds like a pretty serious Christian to me.

"King Olaf Tryggvason of Norway would send a priest and Christian teachers back with Leif to pagan Greenland."

http://www.connecticutsar.org/articles/scarlet_no10.htm
 
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DOC said:
No, In fact it is possible his Christianity gave him the courage (knowing God was with him) and even the inspiration to make the dangerous mission into unknown territory.
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This reminds me of the Icelandic viking who was a Christian but always called on Thor when he was setting sails. He also wanted to be sure his god was with him and probably found Thor more reliable than the White Christ when it came to dangerous everyday working.

Of course back then Thor wasn't seen as the strong and stupid yokel later Christian re-telling of the Norse myths have made him,:mad:
 
It's pretty clear from a reading of Olaf's saga that at least some people converted to Christianity for political reasons. And because Olaf was a badass and would have burnt their village if they didn't.
 
DOC said:
Secular nations don't make (or keep) their national motto "In God We Trust".
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Well, the Supreme Court of the United States ruled that "In God We Trust" was not a religious phrase. So which is is: "In God We Trust" is not a religious phrase and America is a secular nation, or the Supreme Court was wrong and this injustice should be reverted immediately?
 
arthwollipot said:
It's pretty clear from a reading of Olaf's saga that at least some people converted to Christianity for political reasons. And because Olaf was a badass and would have burnt their village if they didn't.
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The mission to Iceland was more like a military expedition, see this from Njal's Saga:



King Olaf of Norway made preparations to convert Iceland. To this end he sent Thangbrand, son of Count Willibald of Saxony, on a mission to Iceland.
...
At Stafafell a farmer named Thorkel challenged Thangbrand to a duel. Thangbrand accepted the challenge and went to battle using a crucifix for a shield. Victory went to Thangbrand, and he killed Thorkel.
....
Frightened at the Christians' success, the heathens at Kerlingardale hired a sorcerer named Hedin to kill their leader Thangbrand. ...At the time Thangbrand was riding westwards, and the ground suddenly opened up beneath his horse. The horse disappeared into the earth, but Thangbrand miraculously pulled himself to safety.

Thangbrand's companion Gudleif searched out Hedin the sorcerer and killed him with a spear.

.... Fljotshlid, where they met great opposition from Vetrlidi the Poet, so they killed him.

At Grimsness Thorvald the Ailing had gathered a large band of Icelanders against the missionaries.... Thangbrand threw a spear through Thorvald, then Gudleif cut off his arm, and Thorvald died.

......(Thangbrand returns to Norway)...
Thangbrand's account so angered the king that Olaf had all Icelanders in Norway thrown into dungeons. He threatened to have them all put to death, but was dissuaded...
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arthwollipot said:
:eye-poppi :confused:

How does that work then?
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Aronow v. United States," 432 F.2d 242 (1970) in the United States Court of Appeals, Ninth Circuit The court ruled that:
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]"It is quite obvious that the national motto and the slogan on coinage and currency 'In God We Trust' has nothing whatsoever to do with the establishment of religion....
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"...we find that a reasonable observer, aware of the purpose, context, and history of the phrase 'In God we trust,' would not consider its use or its reproduction on U.S. currency to be an endorsement of religion."
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source: http://www.religioustolerance.org/nat_mott.htm


Personally, it's a terrible argument, as DOC has proven.

The United states constitution clearly places a wall of seperation between government and religion. "In god we trust" is a breach of that wall. It weakens our nation.
 
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