Derren Brown Trick or treat
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Derren wasn't being truthful; he makes stooges out of some participants on his shows. Quibbling about the minutiae of the terminology doesn't change that fact one jot. The disclaimer is directed at the general public, not just magicians and the like, and most such people wouldn't for a moment consider whether Derren means "regular stooge" or "instant stooge"; they would take "stooges" to refer to anyone who knowingly "acts along" to assist the effect, whilst aware that they're misleading viewers.
Incidentally, it's been reported by audience members at non-televised shows that Derren sometimes uses an assistant who poses as a member of the public to help accomplish an effect. One such assistant was identified because he not only behaved oddly whilst on the stage, but also left the auditorium on leaving the stage!
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What?! Why would he need an assistant at his stage shows when it can all be done without using one?! And how is it possible to choose one when he picks the members randomly by throwing a puppet to the crowd?
You sound like a deluded person.
You sound like a deluded person.
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I agree completely with DJM's response to this.
It is no more dishonest than using that same disclaimer in a show using hypnotist.
It's not minutia. It's the same difference that exists between the scientific use of the word "theory" and the public's use of the word.
You are using "stooge" to imply that Derren does something that you have failed to demonstrate he actually does.
No.
The non-magical public doesn't even know that "instant stooges" exist. When most people hear "stooge," they think of the person who is in cahoots with the performer before the show even begins and intends to hide his connection with the performer from the rest of the public.
It may well be true.
On the other hand, it's been reported that there are Chupacabras in Central America.
Good points, Garrette.
Skippy, the ironic thing is that it's actually you who isn't being truthful by twisting things. Derren has never denied using instant stooges, he even talks about in his books. So when Derren says he isn't using stooges then it's true. Because an Instant Stooge is something completely different.. they are two different definitions. You take Derren's disclaimer and twist it around to make it seem like it's some kind of lie. But you are the one who is lying by making your own definitions of things.
About the odd participant that was on stage.. did you ever think it was just a nervous person who didn't feel compfortable being in front of hundreds of people? I've seen a few participants who act a bit odd on stage because they have stage fright, escpeially since they are chosen randomlly. Obviously a real assistant would act as normal as possible so that no one will suspect anything.. think a little before posting nonsense.
And I think you should apologize to Derren for making lies about him.
Skippy, the ironic thing is that it's actually you who isn't being truthful by twisting things. Derren has never denied using instant stooges, he even talks about in his books. So when Derren says he isn't using stooges then it's true. Because an Instant Stooge is something completely different.. they are two different definitions. You take Derren's disclaimer and twist it around to make it seem like it's some kind of lie. But you are the one who is lying by making your own definitions of things.
About the odd participant that was on stage.. did you ever think it was just a nervous person who didn't feel compfortable being in front of hundreds of people? I've seen a few participants who act a bit odd on stage because they have stage fright, escpeially since they are chosen randomlly. Obviously a real assistant would act as normal as possible so that no one will suspect anything.. think a little before posting nonsense.
And I think you should apologize to Derren for making lies about him.
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Not all Derren's stage effects can be done without an assistant. The presentation Derren used for the effect required the use of an assistant, and the same assistant seemed to have been used in different performances. There were enough volunteers for it to be easy to include an assistant. It wasn't an effect where just one or two people were selected by puppet-throwing, so your reference to that is irrelevant.
I am taking stooge to include someone who acts along without prior arrangement to do so, because the viewers would almost certainly consider that a possibility (unless they're happy to believe they're seeing real miracles). The disclaimer is viewed by the general public, so it's absurd to suppose that's its meaning is to be decided by reference to Derren's books or the specialist knowledge of other magicians. Several of Derren's effects contain nothing puzzling if you're happy to believe that the subject is acting along almost the whole time. There's plenty of incentive for a subject to act along when the only alternative is to spoil the effect (and probably not get televised).
Qualifying "stooge" with the adjective "instant" implicitly acknowledges that an instant stooge is a type of stooge. Little is achieved by using an unprepared member of the public if the person is carefully selected as someone who can easily be persuaded to act along. I'm not saying that happens every time, but the disclaimer is clearly designed to make viewers unwilling to think that the main secret of how the effects are done is that the participant just knowingly misleads the viewers.
I didn't state the participant was odd, but that what he did was odd (and it had to be in order that he could assist Derren). He wasn't chosen randomly. People volunteered to participate.
So why don't you say what that participant did that was so odd? What was the effect about? What stage show was that?
Unless you give some details, you are making up lies and should be banned from this forum.
About the instant stooge.. ONCE AGAIN, it's completely different than a stooge. They are two different terms. So when Derren says he doesn't use Stooges then it's true.
Like Garrette said, it's no more than when people go see a hypnosis shows, which usually claim no stooges are involved. If you don't like that then stop watching.
Shana Tova everybody.
Unless you give some details, you are making up lies and should be banned from this forum.
About the instant stooge.. ONCE AGAIN, it's completely different than a stooge. They are two different terms. So when Derren says he doesn't use Stooges then it's true.
Like Garrette said, it's no more than when people go see a hypnosis shows, which usually claim no stooges are involved. If you don't like that then stop watching.
Shana Tova everybody.
Now that you mention it, I'd like to see how many of the 99.9 percent of the paying audience at a good old Bullet Catch show keep their eyes open all the time. Who's the stooge? I know I blinked, no shame in that when the loud Bang came, it was just what had to happen and I couldn't help it. It was FUN! Scary! Since nobody's dead yet, you can go see the same thing at the Rio in Vegas, unless P&T have dropped that from the act.
If you want to try to keep your eyes on all possible tricks, then you're a sourpuss and should take your money back out to the casino and bet on "three lemons" on a slot machine.
If you want to try to keep your eyes on all possible tricks, then you're a sourpuss and should take your money back out to the casino and bet on "three lemons" on a slot machine.
Don't mind Skipjack.. He's like those little kids who go to a magic show and tear it apart by calling out stooges, secrets, and holes in the act.
God forbid that he will see it just as some entertainment and have fun like anyone else, there has to be some whining involved.
God forbid that he will see it just as some entertainment and have fun like anyone else, there has to be some whining involved.
As I said, he left and didn't come back; also, he was the only volunteer who hid what he was doing while on the stage. It was the "Oracle" effect, where volunteers were asked to leave envelopes in a bowl on the stage. Derren gave information about some volunteers (seemingly) without opening their envelopes... not very hard if he used an assistant to gain access to some of the envelopes beforehand.
They both act along, keeping quiet about important details of what is really happening, so they're not completely different. The main difference is when they decided to act along. A hypnosis show is somewhat different, in that the audience doesn't need to be baffled.
This is not how the Oracle effect works.. In fact this is one of the oldest mentalism effects that many have done before, though Derren gave it some twist. Do you need an assitant for that? Yes, but not for the reason that you think. It's much more clever than that, and he doesn't need to gain access beforehand or open any of the envelopes.
With your reason, you could say that all the mentalists and magicians mislead the public, because it's known that they might have an assistant or two in the audience for effects like this. Copperfield uses many assistants just like that, and yet he's considered one of the best magicians of all the time. So why do you only complain about Derren? Complain about everybody, they are all liars. That's why the best of them earn millions of dollars, while you are sitting at home and crying like a baby.
If you don't want people to "mislead" you, then stop watching magic shows. It's obvious that you don't deserve it.
With your reason, you could say that all the mentalists and magicians mislead the public, because it's known that they might have an assistant or two in the audience for effects like this. Copperfield uses many assistants just like that, and yet he's considered one of the best magicians of all the time. So why do you only complain about Derren? Complain about everybody, they are all liars. That's why the best of them earn millions of dollars, while you are sitting at home and crying like a baby.
If you don't want people to "mislead" you, then stop watching magic shows. It's obvious that you don't deserve it.
Azrael 5
Philosopher
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Derren Brown is really a woman.I saw him wearing make up once,when he was dashing off stage.He got into a car with Houdini and went clubbing with Dante.
I can't prove any of it,but that hasn't stopped you,so you will have to believe me now!
What I suggested is capable of working and is consistent with otherwise unnecessary aspects of what happened, such as one "volunteer" acting oddly, as described, and only one volunteer being allowed on stage at a time. You don't know that Derren used a "cleverer" method unless you actually worked on the show.
I really don't see what's the big deal of using an assistant from the crowd, it's done all the time by other mentalists and magicians. The whole point is for the crowd to be tricked and that's what happens, the assistant is irrelevant.
Here is Copperfield using one for this trick:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rDNdgVNSCM
Why are you just attacking Derren about it and not all the others? You sound so jealous of him for some reason. It's scary to see how much anger you got inside you.
Here is Copperfield using one for this trick:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rDNdgVNSCM
Why are you just attacking Derren about it and not all the others? You sound so jealous of him for some reason. It's scary to see how much anger you got inside you.