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NORAD Tapes

Thanks, you guys, very much. I'm learning. I didn't think I was going to be able to listen to these things and understand what was going on. But, already they have left an impression on me. My immediate impression is that our military acted quickly and professionally to do anything and everything humanly possible to stop these terrorists. I have no doubt that had the terrorist pilot of United 93 not crashed the plane, it would have been intercepted and shot down.
 
While we're on the subject of transponders, no one has mentioned the real IFF portion of the IFF/SIF feature of these gadgets. The IFF portion is Mode 4. It's used by the military only as the IFF (Identification Friend/Foe). It probably won't be mentioned in the tapes, so this is just an FYI to add to the repertory of knowledge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identification_Friend_or_Foe
 
yes, and if you want to know what happens when this Mode fails, look no further than the RAF tornado brought down by the US patriots in Iraq

Not slagging the Patriot system cause it probably saved my ass in Desert Storm
 
I think I knew the guy who did that; he might've been in my OBC class. He was really broken up about it, from what I heard; I think he got out pretty soon thereafter.

Please do not quote me on that though; I'm only repeating what I heard from colleagues at the time without any corroboration.
 
Thanks to whoever brought up the topic of these tapes, and though odd, a huge thank you to Dylan Avery for posting these tapes up. This is even more than the Vanity Fair FOIA request acquired. I'm getting the tapes now (23.5% done) and look forward to trawling my way through all 120hrs, though it will take a while!

This is what I have been waiting for. Now I can start making an audio-visual version of my NORAD article. Just need some stock news footage from the day and generic aircraft footage etc.

-Gumboot
 
funk de fino said:
yes, and if you want to know what happens when this Mode fails, look no further than the RAF tornado brought down by the US patriots in Iraq

Not slagging the Patriot system cause it probably saved my ass in Desert Storm
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silly brits, flying into our missiles
 
the one you can notice is that - contrary to my former belief we did have a lot of planes up - they had tracks going over most major cities in the eastern US - the issue they had with this was they didnt have to many planes that were armed - either with guns or aim9s

Were there not exercises going on north of the USA, but still under the direction of NORAD, something to do with Russian movements??? Am I wrong? Could this be the "exercise" they were cancelling??

TAM
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Im not sure about this TAM - there has been chatter of planes coming in from Canada but nothing I have heard so far confirms exercises North of US airspace

Again the inputs the LC are refering to are designations to the particular aircraft - the exercises were not going on during the attack

I'm about 20% done with my first listen as a update
 
I do have to wonder about the exercise that was supposed to be going on that day. I'd be interested to know if they had actual PLANES that were involved in the exercise about Russian movements, or if it was just mock radar tracks in the NORAD tracking area. Not to mention, who's to say, even if they had planes, that the planes would have been armed? In an exercise, as far as I know, that's HIGHLY unlikely.
 
exercises are pretty common - especially for the NORAD guys - i mean prior to 9/11 it was a monotonus job - be they with real planes or just mock tracks -

It seems through listening so far that there was a mixture between mock tracks (possibly the hostiles) and real fighters -And I agree 100% planes within the exercise were Almost 100% not armed - as they had to be landed to arm with 2X2 and ammo in one case i have heard on the NORAD tapes
 
gumboot said:
Thanks to whoever brought up the topic of these tapes, and though odd, a huge thank you to Dylan Avery for posting these tapes up. This is even more than the Vanity Fair FOIA request acquired. I'm getting the tapes now (23.5% done) and look forward to trawling my way through all 120hrs, though it will take a while!

This is what I have been waiting for. Now I can start making an audio-visual version of my NORAD article. Just need some stock news footage from the day and generic aircraft footage etc.

-Gumboot
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Aw, dang. And I just removed the torrent after I had seeded 200%. I'd hook back up, but I'm at work now. Well, as I recall, the swarm is well supported. It only took me 20 hours to get the full file, and another 20 to get to a 2:1 ratio. :eye-poppi
 
Sabrina said:
I do have to wonder about the exercise that was supposed to be going on that day. I'd be interested to know if they had actual PLANES that were involved in the exercise about Russian movements, or if it was just mock radar tracks in the NORAD tracking area. Not to mention, who's to say, even if they had planes, that the planes would have been armed? In an exercise, as far as I know, that's HIGHLY unlikely.
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The exercise responding to the Russian exercise involved the movement of assets. Yes, I'd guess they were armed, but that did not affect their Air Defense Alert requirement. I believe those aircraft were in Alaska and perhaps Iceland. The other exercise was a CPX which means it was a COMMAND POST exercise.

As has been said numerous times already, the exercises DID NOT (except in a positive way) affect the NORAD response on 9/11. It was a non-issue regardless of what "troofers" say or imply by their misunderstanding of how the "real world" works and/or their misunderstand/misinterpretation/distortion of the Norad tapes.
 
Digest said:
It seems through listening so far that there was a mixture between mock tracks (possibly the hostiles) and real fighters -And I agree 100% planes within the exercise were Almost 100% not armed - as they had to be landed to arm with 2X2 and ammo in one case i have heard on the NORAD tapes
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There would have been only 14 aircraft armed and on alert on 9/11. The remainder would not have been armed. You do realize they put up over 300 aircraft by the end of the day, don't you? Some were fully armed, some partially, and some not armed except for the Fox-4 RAM option.
 
Reheat said:
There would have been only 14 aircraft armed and on alert on 9/11. The remainder would not have been armed. You do realize they put up over 300 aircraft by the end of the day, don't you? Some were fully armed, some partially, and some not armed except for the Fox-4 RAM option.
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yep i was just stating a particular response that they landed a group and tried to arm them as they needed more "ready" planes in the air.

my experience with the com chatter is limited to SOF squad interaction and airsupport- so even some of the jargon escapes me but I am getting inputs from ATC guys on anything that stumps me
 
Digest said:
my experience with the com chatter is limited to SOF squad interaction and airsupport- so even some of the jargon escapes me but I am getting inputs from ATC guys on anything that stumps me
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PM me if you need something interpreted that they can't answer.
 
Sabrina said:
I do have to wonder about the exercise that was supposed to be going on that day. I'd be interested to know if they had actual PLANES that were involved in the exercise about Russian movements, or if it was just mock radar tracks in the NORAD tracking area. Not to mention, who's to say, even if they had planes, that the planes would have been armed? In an exercise, as far as I know, that's HIGHLY unlikely.
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The NORAD exercise underway during the week of 9/11 was a Vigilant Overview type exercise which is a CPX or Command Post Exercise and does not include any operational units or aircraft (with the possible exception of the E4-B airborne command post platforms).

The "Russian movements" were not an exercise at all. The Russian Airforce was undertaking a major bomber exercise in Northern Siberia, and in response NORAD undertook "Operation Northern Vigilance" which moved operational forces into readiness to shadow the Russian exercise and respond in the event of the exercise being a pretext for an attack. This has been standard practice since the 1950's for both the USA and the USSR/Russian Federation. The key thing to note is this was NOT an exercise - it was a real world operation. It did not involve NORAD's standard 14 air defense aircraft on alert. Once the attacks started the Russians cancelled the exercise, freeing up the 300+ fighters in Alaska and Iceland to provide air defense to the USA.

-Gumboot
 
Digest said:
Im not sure about this TAM - there has been chatter of planes coming in from Canada but nothing I have heard so far confirms exercises North of US airspace
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Operation Northern Vigilance would have been in Alaska Region airspace and thus unlikely to have been mentioned on these tapes which are from North East Air Defense Sector (NEADS) in Contiguous US Region (CONR).

The only command centre likely to be dealing with both Northern Vigilance and the 9/11 attacks was NORAD HQ itself at Cheyenne Mountain. This could perhaps explain why General Arnold (CONR) gave Colonel Marr (NEADS) a scramble order without authorisation (but probably not).

-Gumboot
 
gumboot said:
Operation Northern Vigilance would have been in Alaska Region airspace and thus unlikely to have been mentioned on these tapes which are from North East Air Defense Sector (NEADS) in Contiguous US Region (CONR).

The only command centre likely to be dealing with both Northern Vigilance and the 9/11 attacks was NORAD HQ itself at Cheyenne Mountain. This could perhaps explain why General Arnold (CONR) gave Colonel Marr (NEADS) a scramble order without authorisation (but probably not).

-Gumboot
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You, of course, are correct about the Operation and Exercise. However, I need a clarification. I understood that some of the tapes are from Cheyenne Mountain, is that true or not? Are they ONLY from NEADS?
 
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