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NORAD Tapes

To cherry pick out of these calls without a good background in ATC is just ridiculous. Without knowing what they are looking at on their screen, it is pure conjecture.

TAM:)
 
How might we interpret this:

"Fu** he's got it! Give me callsign, give me whole 9 yards.
United 93, got a bomb? Going from where to where.
Bomb on board, United 93, out of Boston?
Intercept! and divert that aircraft away from there.
AIRCRAFT OVER THE WHITEHOUSE

What is it? .. FIFTH AEROPLANE!! .. Cleveland!
negative clearance to fire. ID TYPE TAIL.


93 is down north east of Camp David confirmed.
He exploded, he exploded."
 
RedIbis said:
How might we interpret this:

"Fu** he's got it! Give me callsign, give me whole 9 yards.
United 93, got a bomb? Going from where to where.
Bomb on board, United 93, out of Boston?
Intercept! and divert that aircraft away from there.
AIRCRAFT OVER THE WHITEHOUSE

What is it? .. FIFTH AEROPLANE!! .. Cleveland!
negative clearance to fire. ID TYPE TAIL.


93 is down north east of Camp David confirmed.
He exploded, he exploded."
Click to expand...

Tam, what kind of conjecture can you take from 93 exploding and going down north east of Camp David??
I'm curious to know how you can spin this into it not exploding and going down. On the other hand, I thought 93 went down in Shanksville?;)
 
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Spins said:
Who, Swing? That's hardly surprising is it! :D

In fact it's a good example of how conspiracy theories propagate over the Internet, thanks Swing much appreciated. ;)
Click to expand...

Yes Spin, and here is an example of someone ignoring a fact that I posted:
More quotes posted at a website. I'm not sure of the accuracy or context so reader beware. I've highlighted the more interesting quotes:
Click to expand...

Thanks Spin. You are great example of a very poor debunker. Lets take something out of context and ignore a disclaimer in an attempt to attack the character. Nice job, Spin!
 
Swing Dangler said:
Tam, what kind of conjecture can you take from 93 exploding and going down east of Camp David??
I'm curious to know how you can spin this into it not exploding and going down. On the other hand, I thought 93 went down in Shanksville?;)
Click to expand...

See, it's started already. :mad:
 
Swing Dangler said:
Yes Spin, and here is an example of someone ignoring a fact that I posted:


Thanks Spin. You are great example of a very poor debunker. Lets take something out of context and ignore a disclaimer in an attempt to attack the character. Nice job, Spin!
Click to expand...
I did actually only read the post I'd replied to so I'll take what I said about you back on this occasion. You've been vindicated.

What I said regarding the miss-representation, and how conspiracy theories spread, is still valid though.

EDIT: Although reading the post again, which I was replying to, it did seem you'd sourced that quote yourself...

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2921774#post2921774

BTW you actually quoted a totally different post in your defense above.
 
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Spins said:
I did actually only read the post I'd replied to so I take what I said about you back on this occasion.

What I said regarding the miss-representation, and how conspiracy theories spread, is still valid though.
Click to expand...

On this occasion? ;) Ok, I forgive you.
And believe it or not, I can agree with you on your second statement.
 
Swing Dangler said:
Tam, what kind of conjecture can you take from 93 exploding and going down east of Camp David??
I'm curious to know how you can spin this into it not exploding and going down. On the other hand, I thought 93 went down in Shanksville?;)
Click to expand...

I haven't heard the tapes, but if this quote is accurate:

93 is down north east of Camp David confirmed. He exploded, he exploded.
Click to expand...

This doesn't automatically mean it exploded and then went down. From what I understand, when pilots or air traffic controllers say a plane is down, that could mean it landed safely. I think in this instance, he could be saying the plane is down, and it has exploded.

Sound reasonable? Is that spin?
 
T.A.M. said:
To cherry pick out of these calls without a good background in ATC is just ridiculous. Without knowing what they are looking at on their screen, it is pure conjecture.

TAM:)
Click to expand...

Exactly.

I AM ex-ATC (both military and FAA) and there will still be transmissions I don't fully understand. Talk about an exercise in futility...is this what the next year is going to bring? Twoofers asking us to explain literally thousands of transmissions over 120 hours of tape?

No thanks.
 
Par said:
Is this an attention thing?
Click to expand...

Not at all. I've read Collin Powell's account of a crash north east of Camp David. I chalked up as a mix up, error, or phantom flight but the NORAD tapes appear to confirm his statements. I'm also trying to reason how this confirmation of Powell's account matches with the Shanksville crash scenario.
 
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if anyone brings up a quote from the tapes, I will merely say/ask...

"are you an ATC past or present? If not, take it to one."

TAM:)
 
MarcoPolo said:
I haven't heard the tapes, but if this quote is accurate:



This doesn't automatically mean it exploded and then went down. From what I understand, when pilots or air traffic controllers say a plane is down, that could mean it landed safely. I think in this instance, he could be saying the plane is down, and it has exploded.

Sound reasonable? Is that spin?
Click to expand...

Sounds reasonable to me considering the order in which the statements appear and with a bomb on board it isn't unreasonable to suggest it went down and then exploded. The location of the plane brings up some interesting discussion points. ;)
 
RedIbis said:
How might we interpret this:

"Fu** he's got it! Give me callsign, give me whole 9 yards.
United 93, got a bomb? Going from where to where.
Bomb on board, United 93, out of Boston?
Intercept! and divert that aircraft away from there.
AIRCRAFT OVER THE WHITEHOUSE

What is it? .. FIFTH AEROPLANE!! .. Cleveland!
negative clearance to fire. ID TYPE TAIL.


93 is down north east of Camp David confirmed.
He exploded, he exploded."
Click to expand...
We MIGHT interpret it as Flight 93 not being shot down and instead crash landing as been stated from day one.

Or we might not cherry-pick a quote and make an assumption without hearing the rest of the communications.

Or we might pretend we know exactly what they meant and consider it proof of our stance... oh wait, did I see "we?" That's your side. :p
 
Swing Dangler said:
On this occasion? ;) Ok, I forgive you.
And believe it or not, I can agree with you on your second statement.
Click to expand...
What so if people misrepresent a person or take their quotes out of context you don't think this is a reason why conspiracy theories spread on the Internet? I can give you a classic example with regards to 9/11 conspiracy theories, Silverstein and "Pull It".
 
Spins said:
What so if people misrepresent a person or take their quotes out of context you don't think this is a reason why conspiracy theories spread on the Internet? I can give you a classic example with regards to 9/11 conspiracy theories, Silverstein and "Pull It".
Click to expand...

Dam, Spins, I said I agree with your second statement.
 
Drudgewire said:
We MIGHT interpret it as Flight 93 not being shot down and instead crash landing as been stated from day one.

Or we might not cherry-pick a quote and make an assumption without hearing the rest of the communications.

Or we might pretend we know exactly what they meant and consider it proof of our stance... oh wait, did I see "we?" That's your side. :p
Click to expand...

Or we could take their statements at face value and confirm them with other reports outside the tapes.
 
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