9/11: How would you have done it?

Fifediesel

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First off, long time lurker first time poster.

One of the real obvious problems with the 9/11 conspiracies is their complexity. Not only do many of them require tens, hundreds or possibly thousands of people to me in the know, most of the conspiracies require a long list of complex procedures to work in a very precise manner. If one thing fails the entire conspiracy crumbles. To my eyes, they feel like a Rube Goldberg machine.

So when a conspiracy theorist breaks down 9/11 and begins to describe its exact mechanisms I'm often left asking this question: THAT'S how they chose to create 9/11? Really? Why wire buildings with explosives and then fly planes into them as well? What happens if the plane part doesn't work? Why hijack a plane but then shoot a missile into the pentagon? Why not just hijack the plane and fly it into the pentagon thus greatly simplifying the whole procedure?

With all that in mind, if you had to create a massive "false flag" event with the purpose of frightening the population into going along with your nefarious plan du jour how would you do it? Keep in mind that the plan would have to be sponsored at some level of the government, it would have to be completely untraceable, it would have to appear on the surface that it was done by another party and it would have to be devastating enough to scare the population into agreeing with your future policy.
 
Fifediesel said:
First off, long time lurker first time poster.

One of the real obvious problems with the 9/11 conspiracies is their complexity. Not only do many of them require tens, hundreds or possibly thousands of people to me in the know, most of the conspiracies require a long list of complex procedures to work in a very precise manner. If one thing fails the entire conspiracy crumbles. To my eyes, they feel like a Rube Goldberg machine.

So when a conspiracy theorist breaks down 9/11 and begins to describe its exact mechanisms I'm often left asking this question: THAT'S how they chose to create 9/11? Really? Why wire buildings with explosives and then fly planes into them as well? What happens if the plane part doesn't work? Why hijack a plane but then shoot a missile into the pentagon? Why not just hijack the plane and fly it into the pentagon thus greatly simplifying the whole procedure?

With all that in mind, if you had to create a massive "false flag" event with the purpose of frightening the population into going along with your nefarious plan du jour how would you do it? Keep in mind that the plan would have to be sponsored at some level of the government, it would have to be completely untraceable, it would have to appear on the surface that it was done by another party and it would have to be devastating enough to scare the population into agreeing with your future policy.
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Given the fact that there are radical Islamists who mean to do us harm, the most effective scenario would be to "accidentally" allow one of these attacks to happen. It's almost impossible to stop every attack, and in a scenario such as this, no members of the government are directly responsible. Additionally, it wouldn't be "false-flag" since it would actually be committed by one of our enemies, therefore the effect would likely be greater, and require almost NO cover-up.
 
Plant a so-called "dirty bomb" in the financial district of New York, and set it off. Regardless of the reality of how much radioactive material was scattered, the irrational fear of it would turn the entire area into a ghost town semi-permanently and drive the conservatives and moderates insane with anger.

Hiding the origin of the isotopes and explosives used would be trivial. Placing blame would be even more trivial, since the government's been warning about this kind of attack since the fall of the Soviet Union.
 
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With all that in mind, if you had to create a massive "false flag" event with the purpose of frightening the population into going along with your nefarious plan du jour how would you do it?
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Nerve gas bomb in a major population center right at peak traffic hours. Say lunch time on Wall Street right when everyone is heading to local eateries. Park a truck containing two or three artillery shells with Iraqi markings on them on the street and pop the lids. Toss a couple dead arabs with appropriate passports/ID in the cab of the truck for good measure.

Another option is to fire those same shells into the Superbowl on game day. Or the world series, or a NASCAR race or hell... hit all three! All you need is the shells, the gas and one or two surplus 155 mm artillery pieces plus the people to crew the guns.

Either of the above scenarios would give us thousands of casualties and weeks of live CNN footage of dead bodies, harried rescue workers and screaming family members. All while requiring the participation of a couple dozen people at most... as opposed to the tens of thousands required by even the simplest MIHOP 9/11 scenarios.
 
Easy. We already had a bomb go off in the basement of the towers. Do it with a much bigger payload. Wouldn't take anything more than putting in a couple of your guys into the security guard position. Do the same to the Sears Towers. Float a barge of explosives over to a major bridge pile, and blow it up. 3-4 tragedies in a few minutes, trivial to do, trivial to cover up, easy to blame on terrorists.
 
My plan (which I have said since 9/13/01 would have been superior for AQ even without it being a CT--but that is another debate):

1) The players with knowledge of the plan

The planner---A person who is decently wealthy, willing to invest around $1M USD in the plan and who has the necessary contacts.

The intermediary---Could be the same as the planner, but must be of mideast descent, speak arabic and have contacts with suni militants in the mideast.

The stooges---Young suni militants recruited by the intermediary in order to carry out suicide attacks within the US. Must be able to get students visas and only show up minimally on terroist watch lists.

2) the plan itself

The planner makes contacts with the intermediary and two other groups. Arms Smugglers and Money launderers. The arms dealers are told to get high explosives and, if those are not available, weapons (even semi auto pre ban weapons are ok). The money launderers are told to make specific investments, short selling retail and index stocks around the day of the event and buying stock in security and defence corporations as well as investing in oil.

The intermediary makes contact with the stooges and supplies them with weapons from the arms suppliers and gives them the necessary training to use them. Each suicide bomber is instructed to clean their hotel room and to go to a different mall, each chosen to relatively cover the US in a random way. On the day of the even they either blow themselves up or go on shooting rampages throught these shopping centers.

The planner make a very healthy profit from this conspiracy. It can be modified for a government conspiracy with minimal changes, greatly reducing the cost and the need for money laundering.

Kage

P.S. I don't like posting such things, but I doubt AQ is reading this forum. LCF maybe for the laughs.
 
Attack the largest symbol of American infrastructure with explosives.

No, I'm not talking office buildings or monuments; I'm talking shopping malls.

Think about it; if you want extreme chaos and the ability to take out thousands of people at one time, just plant explosives in key areas in the Mall of America or something. Maybe attack multiple shopping malls. Add in amusement parks even. Both of these are, to many foreign countries, signs of the dissolute nature of Americans, so why not attack them? It could be easily blamed on Islamic extremists who hate the fact that we're richer than them and would only take, if you only targeted one mall at a time or one amusement park at a time, probably ten-fifteen guys.
 
roger said:
Easy. We already had a bomb go off in the basement of the towers. Do it with a much bigger payload. Wouldn't take anything more than putting in a couple of your guys into the security guard position. Do the same to the Sears Towers. Float a barge of explosives over to a major bridge pile, and blow it up. 3-4 tragedies in a few minutes, trivial to do, trivial to cover up, easy to blame on terrorists.
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That's what I would have done. According to the FBI, the 1993 bomb didn't detonate "properly" (whatever that means?) and had it done so, quite likely would have toppled the tower. More, bigger bombs. Towers go crumple. And not a long time after, when most people have evacuated. Instantly. 15,000 dead.

-Gumboot
 
Fifediesel said:
With all that in mind, if you had to create a massive "false flag" event with the purpose of frightening the population into going along with your nefarious plan du jour how would you do it? Keep in mind that the plan would have to be sponsored at some level of the government, it would have to be completely untraceable, it would have to appear on the surface that it was done by another party and it would have to be devastating enough to scare the population into agreeing with your future policy.
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I'd probably plant a dirty nuke / misfiring nuke in one of the ports, and explode it there (minimal loss of life, cause I'm a softy).

The findings would conclude "probable premature detonation", allowing for a near-miss that still scares the bejaysus out of the common man.

If I wanted to go for disruption and death, however, I'd get some suicide bombers to detonate in the middle of the long queues for security checks at airports....ideally at some holiday period when the queues are longer. I'd follow it two days later by suicide bombers in some major other transport-infrastructure hubs.
 
Sabrina said:
Attack the largest symbol of American infrastructure with explosives.

No, I'm not talking office buildings or monuments; I'm talking shopping malls.

Think about it; if you want extreme chaos and the ability to take out thousands of people at one time, just plant explosives in key areas in the Mall of America or something. Maybe attack multiple shopping malls. Add in amusement parks even. Both of these are, to many foreign countries, signs of the dissolute nature of Americans, so why not attack them? It could be easily blamed on Islamic extremists who hate the fact that we're richer than them and would only take, if you only targeted one mall at a time or one amusement park at a time, probably ten-fifteen guys.
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Great minds think alike. I was in army ROTC for a year, and the battalion commander and I had a similar discussion, without the CT side to it. We both agreed that were we to want to create some havok on the cheap, we would either get explosives (his idea) or a barrett 50 cal (my idea) and just drive up the NJ turnpike, taking out chemical plants.

Kage
 
Sword of Truth:

When you glibly say "Toss a couple dead arabs in ... for good measure" I hope you realize this is a decidedly RACIST remark. I trust you will withdraw this comment and apologize for your indiscretion.
 
The OP is correct, 9/11 conspiracy theories are way too complicated. How about this: The bad guys (NWO, Bush Co., Israel, Freemasons...take your pick) hire 19 patsies to hijack four planes and crash them into buildings. You don't need controlled demolitions to prove 9/11 was an inside job.
 
Sabrina said:
Attack the largest symbol of American infrastructure with explosives.

No, I'm not talking office buildings or monuments; I'm talking shopping malls.

Think about it; if you want extreme chaos and the ability to take out thousands of people at one time, just plant explosives in key areas in the Mall of America or something. Maybe attack multiple shopping malls. Add in amusement parks even. Both of these are, to many foreign countries, signs of the dissolute nature of Americans, so why not attack them? It could be easily blamed on Islamic extremists who hate the fact that we're richer than them and would only take, if you only targeted one mall at a time or one amusement park at a time, probably ten-fifteen guys.
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I would include schools in that as well. Look how upset people get with the school shootings we have had. Multiply that times the amount of damage well financed terrorists could do and you have the whole country losing their minds (especially if it was small children instead of teenagers).

Excuse me, I need to take a shower, I feel dirty now.
 
Apollo20 said:
Sword of Truth:

When you glibly say "Toss a couple dead arabs in ... for good measure" I hope you realize this is a decidedly RACIST remark. I trust you will withdraw this comment and apologize for your indiscretion.
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Sword of Truth is being a bit cavalier in said remark, but I've always been under the impression that the impetus behind 9/11 (according to the CTers--and now that I think about it, according to AQ as well) was to get the US to go to war in Iraq. In this context I don't find the remark particularly racist. Could be said better and more clearly though.

Kage
 
bonkey said:
I'd probably plant a dirty nuke / misfiring nuke in one of the ports, and explode it there (minimal loss of life, cause I'm a softy).

The findings would conclude "probable premature detonation", allowing for a near-miss that still scares the bejaysus out of the common man.
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Forget misfiring, just pop a nuke in a port. Buy an old Russian warhead on the black market, and the only evidence that's left is the isotope ratios. Clean, quick, and virtually unstoppable, since the people who would be doing the stopping are in on it.
 
I'd poison the public water supply. Lots of 'em. Simultaneously.



Not that I thought it up; all major reservoirs near here are being fenced and monitored, I believe, on account of the Scottish Executive working this one out too.
 
Apollo20 said:
Kage:

For your information Iraqis are not Arabs! This makes it all the more racist!
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I did know that Iranians were not Arabs, never heard that Iraqis were not as well. This applies to all sects?

Also, the fact that Iraqis are not arabs didn't stop the Iraq war from happening in the real world. I don't suppose that it would stop it from happening in fantasy-land either.

Kage

P.S. My favorite counter CT argument is asking why none of the hijackers were not Iraqis, so I guess I should have been more clear.
 
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