carlson test and debunking randi

[Mojo]

A good idea, but you might want to have, if not a form, at least several specific areas that require description, e.g. ... fashion sense ...

This one might not be a good idea as it would be likely to give clues about gender and age.

ETA: same for hobbies, perhaps.

 

[Lennyhipp]

feedback to your profile of "me"...

heres a quick take. Your chart is a very common one, so you may find my reading a bit vague.
But i see your parents gave you a lot of support, though also imposed restrictions and gave you discipline.

This would probably apply to 85% of the general population i'd think! They gave support, but also gave discipline. I don't know ANYONE who wouldn't say that applied to them.

You also have an agressive caracter, fighting spirit, and have an original, rebellious mind, which thinks out of the box. You can be quite unscrupulous. You seek knowledge very keenly.Your current 10 year luck cycle 36-45 year old, is about money and women. It looks like you found a girl in 2003 also in 2002 in case youre not already wedded. Since age 36 you have the potencial to make good money . In your case there seems to be not only a rebellious side but also a quiet, studious side and im nt sure which one prevails, but it looks like the quiet side.

You failed miserably. You made the same mistakes in very much the same way James Young did... you based it on my online profile, and NOT from my brother's birth chart which is the data I had given you. In other words, it's a LOT like cold reading in that what you wrote matched some of my characteristics, but you have NO IDEA when/where/what day I was born! (my brother and i are diatmetrically opposites in many ways, and born 3 years and half a world apart!)

LH

 

[Lennyhipp]

and when he moved to Hollywood where he has Mars inthe same position, he made rather marcial movies and played rather martial characters like Rambo,Rocky...

huh... i thought Rocky was filmed on location in Philly.
what do i know!?
LH

 

[Uncle Feedle]

It would be interesting to come across a 'qualified professional astrologer' (as James Young put it) ABANDONING astrology after accepting that it doesn't work, and what it was that caused them to renounce their belief. However, ex-astrologers seem to be about as common as ex-dowsers.

 

[Michael C]

Have a look at www.astrology-and-science.com/. This site is run by Rudolf Smit, an ex-astrologer, and other ex-astrologers have contributed to the site. Somewhere on the site you can read his life story: fascinating.

Edit: once you're on the site, look for the link to "Astrology my passion:
My life, my personal disaster"

 

[idunno]

This would probably apply to 85% of the general population i'd think! They gave support, but also gave discipline. I don't know ANYONE who wouldn't say that applied to them.



You failed miserably. You made the same mistakes in very much the same way James Young did... you based it on my online profile, and NOT from my brother's birth chart which is the data I had given you. In other words, it's a LOT like cold reading in that what you wrote matched some of my characteristics, but you have NO IDEA when/where/what day I was born! (my brother and i are diatmetrically opposites in many ways, and born 3 years and half a world apart!)

LH

i dont even know your online profile, this is only the second post from you ive seen

 

[idunno]

If Idunno hasn't already submitted the Western horoscopes to drkitten, here's an idea for a different test with the 6 participants:

- Each participant writes a short description of his/her character, trying to make it as honest and accurate as possible without giving information concerning age or sex (you might ask a spouse/parent/offspring/sibling/best friend to check it over).
- They communicate the descriptions to drkitten, who mixes them up, identifies them with numbers, letters, whatever, and sends them to idunno.
- idunno, using whatever sort of astrology he chooses, tries to match the personality descriptions to the birth dates.

It would be possible to add other participants, or to replace existing ones if they don't want to play along.

i agree. Just send it!!
By the way, in a astrolgy forum they suggested that the charts of the last test be picked by friends of the participants rather than themselves, as people tend to be little objective about themselves

 

[idunno]

Have a look at www.astrology-and-science.com/. This site is run by Rudolf Smit, an ex-astrologer, and other ex-astrologers have contributed to the site. Somewhere on the site you can read his life story: fascinating.

Edit: once you're on the site, look for the link to "Astrology my passion:
My life, my personal disaster"

I began researching astrology after coming across that site in 2001.
I know Rudolf. He says any chartfits hims though some more than others.
This «some more than others» is important as i havethe same experience, only, the charts that fit me better are the ones where the strongest elements of my chart are also strong, but i have no fire in my chart, and have an hard time identifying with charts where fire is strong.
Researchers also make mistakes

 

[Complexity]

This will never, ever end.

 

[idunno]

This will never, ever end.

if you want i start another thread called «re-re-re-testing astrology

 

[Oualawouzou]

i agree. Just send it!!
By the way, in a astrolgy forum they suggested that the charts of the last test be picked by friends of the participants rather than themselves, as people tend to be little objective about themselves

This is ridiculous. The vast majority of astrology "revelations" are about things people other than yourself wouldn't know. My friends have no idea about my relationship with my family; it's none of their business. My friends have no idea weither the face I put up is an act or my "real self" (remember all those wishy-washy, "shy but sometimes act confident", "looks brave but sometimes is afraid", "sometimes happy but sometimes sad" descriptions that are typical of astrology?). My friends know little to nothing of many of my personnal interests. They are not qualified in any way to tell weither a text supposed to shed light on the depths of my soul is accurate or not.

This «some more than others» is important as i havethe same experience,

Good! Then this can be proven. Pick an element, something specific to a given type of chart, that is a surefire way to get people with the appropriate birth dates to identify "more strongly" with readings including that element. Test it. See if people with the appropriate birth dates systemically (sp?) identify "more strongly" with readings including that element, and that only people with the appropriate charts identify "more strongly" with that reading. You do realize this has never panned out, right?

 

[drkitten]

If Idunno hasn't already submitted the Western horoscopes to drkitten, here's an idea for a different test

I don't like this as much, simply because it's not as powerful.

With six different profiles that idunno has to match to six different participants, there
are 6! (720) different outcomes, so even if he gets them all right, he doesn't make Randi's one in a thousand cutoff.

With six independent choices, there are something like 47,000 possible outcomes.

 

[Lennyhipp]

online profiles...

i dont even know your online profile, this is only the second post from you ive seen

well, let's put it this way:
If you've seen James Young's homepage, and you've admitted you had... then a lot of the kinds of things you said were the same things HE has said! Now, I'm not calling you a liar, because it's possible you haven't been there since he posted his little diatribe, but you also admitted to watching his videos, and I was easily his harshest critic on every one of his video forums, and a google search would have turned up a LOT more info on me. (not saying you took the time to do that either... but you COULD HAVE) and that's why I gave you my brother's birth data... The profile you sent, not only resembled me and the things you can find out about me online, but it resembled what James Young had said about me, and NOT my brother at ALL... Strange coincidence.

Len

 

[kieran]

but i have no fire in my chart, and have an hard time identifying with charts where fire is strong.

... isn't that a self-fulfilling prophesy?

For example ... I have no Ferraris in my garage, and have a hard time identifying with garages with Ferraris.

Feel free to create equally pointless examples - they are easy ...

 

[Locknar]

... isn't that a self-fulfilling prophesy?

For example ... I have no Ferraris in my garage, and have a hard time identifying with garages with Ferraris.

Feel free to create equally pointless examples - they are easy ...

While not intended....many thanks for providing my laugh for the day

 

[kieran]

By the way, in a astrolgy forum they suggested that the charts of the last test be picked by friends of the participants rather than themselves, as people tend to be little objective about themselves

Is there any guarantee that people, if they are not objective about themselves, will be objective about their friends? If not then isn't this just a way of adding noise? Isn't this just another way of taking a failed test and looking for excuses? Do you just want to take the wrong result and get another go at it? "It didn't look good when I measured it in the 'accuracy' norm, so I decided to use the 'friend's perception of accuracy' norm instead."

Let's just keep looking until we find a norm that works just once - maybe we could try putting the charts scattered on the floor and seeing if the right pets p!$$ on the right chart. What would that prove? It could just be a statistical anomaly. However, everytime you get it wrong it should show you that there probably isn't anything worthwhile in astrology.

You not only have to get it right - you have to be able to repeat it. The fact you can get it right once should tell you something ...

 

[idunno]

well, let's put it this way:
If you've seen James Young's homepage, and you've admitted you had... then a lot of the kinds of things you said were the same things HE has said! Now, I'm not calling you a liar, because it's possible you haven't been there since he posted his little diatribe, but you also admitted to watching his videos, and I was easily his harshest critic on every one of his video forums, and a google search would have turned up a LOT more info on me. (not saying you took the time to do that either... but you COULD HAVE) and that's why I gave you my brother's birth data... The profile you sent, not only resembled me and the things you can find out about me online, but it resembled what James Young had said about me, and NOT my brother at ALL... Strange coincidence.

Len

what was your identity on youtube?

 

[Locknar]

Lennyhip - I asked idunno much earlier in this thread if he was in fact James Young; something he (idunno) has denied.

What you note is most interesting though.

 

[sinnikal]

what was your identity on youtube?

I really can't believe that you posted that. Really.
Do you ever do any research on things before you start giving the world the benefit of your wisdom?

These 'ere computers don't just contain astrological charts. You can do things called 'searches' just about anywhere you find yourself. Really.

 

[Michael C]

I don't like this as much, simply because it's not as powerful.

With six different profiles that idunno has to match to six different participants, there
are 6! (720) different outcomes, so even if he gets them all right, he doesn't make Randi's one in a thousand cutoff.

With six independent choices, there are something like 47,000 possible outcomes.

We just need one more peson to get the number back to seven, in which case the odds in this test would be 1 in 5040: five times harder than the minimum odds for the million dollar challenge preliminary tests.