Voice-Morphing and the Passenger Calls

Give up man

No remote control, they are navy seals they could not rig it even if they had all the parts with them (which is also impossible), i could not rig it in that time and i was an electrical/electronic,avionics and weapons tech on fastjets

No parachuting seals

No egress doors apart from the normal cabin doors which open out the way and would be ripped off at that speed, and definately none in tne bottom

Yours claims are complete and utter fantasy pal, i tried to warn you not to go down that road
 
A-Train said:
Who said anything about a rear exit?

We have good evidence from the phone calls that the Method of Operation on the flights was to herd the passengers to the back of the plane, and keep them there with some kind of mace or noxious gas placed in the plane's midsection. From that viewpoint, how would the passengers know what the hijackers are doing in the front and/or bottom of the plane?

I'm not going to pretend to know exactly which door they would have exited out of. But I find it laughable that you are going to concede that Pfarrar's account is possible from one kind of Boeing, but contend it is somehow impossible from 757/767s.

Here is a diagram of a Boeing 767. I see numerous potential exit points. For example, the Nose Gear Door, and the Equipment Access Door, both located just below the cockpit.

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/airports/arff/arff767.pdf
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A-Train said:
The above two posts sink to almost unbelieveable levels of mindlessness and stupidity.

We really do have good evidence that the passengers were sent to the back of the planes, based on the records of the phone calls-- which is what this thread is supposed to be about. No one here disputes that. Stellafane, why don't you quit popping testosterone pills and try to use your brain a little more? Maybe you could start by actually paying attention to the thread, and to the posts made by people you disagree with.

Kage, I have never contended the government is behind 9/11. You obviously haven't been paying attention either.

It gets tiring having to contend with emotionally charged adolescents like the above two posters. Maybe we have two forums here-- one for those of us who want to debate and discuss ideas, and present our own arguments backed with sources; and another for angry guys who just want a place to let off a little steam before heading to the gym.
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There were four posters above that post, but instead of dealing with what the first two posters used to confront your argument, you chose to make noise about what you saw as immaturity from the second two posters. How sad.

The claim was made that the hijackers may have exited the passenger planes in a manner similar to certain US forces. Those exits are conducted through a rear exit, because only there are the soldiers safe from the severe winds whipping past any side and front exits (granted for purpose of argument), especially when the planes are traveling at the speeds the 9/11 planes were. Unless the hijackers leapt from the rear of those planes, they did not leave the planes. Period.

Please respond to this. Resorting to misdirection again will be accepted as your concession of the point.
 
To be fair, there is one "exit" on a 767 that might work - the main E&E access door. There is a hatch just behind the flight deck door that allows access to the avioincs bay(E&E) from inside the cabin. Whether that would be suitable is out of my area of expertise, but it's an option. And of course, the movie Commando doesn't apply here as there is no way to access the nose wheel well from the cabin. On another note, the main entry doors on the 767 open in and roll up, so they're a much better option than 757 entry doors, which probably couldn't be opened even if the plane were depressurized...

As for the remote control argument, I'm willing to give A-Train the benefit of the doubt that he'd actually read my paper - so I'll assume he meant "setting up the FMC and MCP for an LNAV/VNAV flightplan." Of course you'd need GPS for that to be accurate better than .1 miles, but that's better than needing an entire remote operated flight control system....
 
The movie "Commando" was not nearly as creative or detached from reality as A-Train's proposition on how it was done.

TAM;)
 
A-Train said:
I'm not going to pretend to know exactly which door they would have exited out of. But I find it laughable that you are going to concede that Pfarrar's account is possible from one kind of Boeing, but contend it is somehow impossible from 757/767s.
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What's laughable is your failure to understand what would be likely to happen if someone attempted to parachute from an airliner that didn't have rear air stairs. The point you are missing is that the air stairs allow the parachutist to jump well clear of the fuselage, wings, tail, and engines. See here for an animated .gif that illustrates how "Dan Cooper" was able to do this.


A-Train said:
Here is a diagram of a Boeing 767. I see numerous potential exit points. For example, the Nose Gear Door, and the Equipment Access Door, both located just below the cockpit.

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/airports/arff/arff767.pdf
Click to expand...


apathoid or beachnut can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think it's possible to get out either of those while wearing a parachute and HALO/HAHO equipment without serious risk of getting hung up. And you're still jumping right next to the fuselage.

ETA: I see apathoid already has commented on this.
 
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Kage said:
The plane also has NO CIVILIAN PASSENGERS! Every person on that plane is involved with the mission at hand. People would notice that the plane had depressurized (having been on a plane that did just that I can tell you that it was miserable, though much more so for my mom and sister who can't clear their ears on command like I can). This book is not a sufficient source to prove what you claim is even possible.
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The specific jump described in the book was indeed a training run, with no civilian passengers. But Pfarrar makes it clear he has done the same maneuver numerous times in real-life situations with real passengers on board.
Kage said:
Also, you haven't answered how 20 operators managed to parachute in broad daylight and not get noticed around large, dense metropolitan areas. Your theories are worse than plausible.
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Who says they jumped in a metropolitan area? You're using your own imagination to fill in what you don't understand. They could have jumped in a rural area, where skyjumpers are a commonplace sight.
 
boloboffin said:
Those exits are conducted through a rear exit, because only there are the soldiers safe from the severe winds whipping past any side and front exits (granted for purpose of argument), especially when the planes are traveling at the speeds the 9/11 planes were.
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Just curious, do you claim to know what the speed-- and altitude-- of the 9/11 planes were throughout their flights? If so, I'd like to know how you know it.
 
apathoid said:
To be fair, there is one "exit" on a 767 that might work - the main E&E access door. There is a hatch just behind the flight deck door that allows access to the avioincs bay(E&E) from inside the cabin. Whether that would be suitable is out of my area of expertise, but it's an option. And of course, the movie Commando doesn't apply here as there is no way to access the nose wheel well from the cabin. On another note, the main entry doors on the 767 open in and roll up, so they're a much better option than 757 entry doors, which probably couldn't be opened even if the plane were depressurized. . . .
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apathoid, several questions, if I may.

First, how would you get out of the aircraft once you were in the avionics bay?

Second, even if the access hatch were closed, wouldn't this still depressurize the aircraft?

Third, how large is the access hatch, and how large is the opening out of the aircraft? Could a man wearing a parachute and HALO/HAHO equipment fit through?

Fourth, is there any way of having the exit close after the last man has parachuted?

Finally, is there a similar hatch on a 757?
 
A-Train said:
Here is a diagram of a Boeing 767. I see numerous potential exit points. For example, the Nose Gear Door, and the Equipment Access Door, both located just below the cockpit.
Click to expand...
None of which, if taken, will earn you 72 virgins.
 
twinstead said:
I always thought it was a 7' 2" Persian. Now that would be quite the surprise
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No, when they get to Heaven, they are met by George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, etc. and get their heads stomped in. You know, 72 Virginians!
 
A-Train said:
Just curious, do you claim to know what the speed-- and altitude-- of the 9/11 planes were throughout their flights? If so, I'd like to know how you know it.
Click to expand...


Additionally, United 175's transponder was never turned off by the hijackers (though they changed the "squawk" code), so radar data is available showing that flight's altitude and airspeed. Further, although rather imprecise, height-finding information is available for American 11 from primary radar returns; averaging allows a very accurate estimate of that aircraft's altitude after the transponder was turned off. The NTSB prepared reports for all four hijacked flights; the three that hit their targets were never below 15,000 feet from the time of the last radio transmissions from their crews until just a few minutes before they struck their targets.

So, A-Train, did the Israeli commandos take HALO/HAHO equipment with them aboard the planes, in addition to their parachutes?? Also, why didn't the passengers [EDIT: or the flight attendants especially] report depressurization of the aircraft (they would have had to have been on oxygen when they made their phone calls)??
 
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SpitfireIX said:
Additionally, United 175's transponder was never turned off by the hijackers (though they changed the "squawk" code), so radar data is available showing that flight's altitude and airspeed. Further, although rather imprecise, height-finding information is available for American 11 from primary radar returns; averaging allows a very accurate estimate of that aircraft's altitude after the transponder was turned off. The NTSB prepared reports for all four hijacked flights; the three that hit their targets were never below 15,000 feet from the time of the last radio transmissions from their crews until just a few minutes before they struck their targets.

So, A-Train, did the Israeli commandos take HALO/HAHO equipment with them aboard the planes, in addition to their parachutes?? Also, why didn't the passengers report depressurization of the aircraft (they would have had to have been on oxygen when they made their phone calls)??
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Not to mention that in all the time Betty Ong was on the phone, and the other attendant, who was on the line until right before the crash, never made any mention of the hijackers except to say that once they all went into the cockpit, none of them came out again...so the only, ONLY way they could have exited AA11 was via the cockpit.

TAM:)
 
T.A.M. said:
That is a wonderful suggested use for that technology. I had not thought of it, but that would be fantastic, and beats the hell out of the "Robot" like voices they have to put up with now.

TAM:)
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Steven Hawking has become so used to his robot voice that he refuses to use the modern equipment and has engineers trying to retrofit digital technology to sound like his synthesiser which is now about twenty years old.
 
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