I assume it was set up by the gangsters of 9/11.
An email from a Conspiracy theorist, and I have no idea how
- Thread starter Undesired Walrus
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I assume it was set up by the gangsters of 9/11.
funk de fino
Dreaming of unicorns
Who? Name them?
stateofgrace
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funk de fino
Dreaming of unicorns
Thats where i was going
lets see the wriggle out of this?
lets see the wriggle out of this?
A person such as you - who has created a fantasy existence as a "marine engineer and accident investigator" - cannot be proved wrong. You will never accept any evidence. Please go away.
You are right. One person has finally been sentenced in Germany for involvement with 9/11 (for transferring money to some alleged hijacker). Missed that one. Doesn't prove that AA77 crashed into pentagon, though and not very clear who the gangsters really are.
Sorry, I am quite real and succesful in my career (since 1965 about). I agree this 9/11 is a little besides my normal job but I was curious about the WTC2 collapse and its offical policy explanation.
Further structural analysis has convinced me that WTC2 would never just collapse due to fire. The redundancy of the perimeter column walls was enormous. The spandrels at every floor level could transmit/re-distribute the column loads all around the tower. This happened when 30 columns of the south wall were damaged. No danger whatsoever.
Then it is suggested that the floors sagged but the floors were just hanging on the columns and secured by bolts. No gravity load redistribution could take place from core to perimeter via these floors. Just lateral wind loads.
You could infact disconnect a perimeter comumn at three floors before that perimeter column would fail due buckling, but then the load at that column would just be redistributed to the adjacent columns. It is suggested that three floors were disconnected from the eastern wall and that the complete wall then sagged inwards ... and global collapse ensued. No way global collapse could ensue that way. The north, west and south wall would take the load! And three floors were never disconnected!
And global gravity collapse would never take place as shown! What we see is CD.
Uhuh. Interesting to see that you worked for V.Ships from 1980 to 2000, although V.Ships wasn't founded until 1984.
Panoply_Prefect
Graduate Poster
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Belz...
Fiend God
Ah, yes. Insulting an entire population by showing cherry-picked interviews with the worst of them. That'll get you somewhere.
Incidently, what does this have to do with the discussion at hand ?
That's your rebuttal ? "You're wrong!" ?
Well isn't that amazing ? From all across the globe, these people have something in common with you.
Just because YOU'RE dishonest, Heiwa, doesn't mean everybody else is.
Just because you believe nonsense, Heiwa, doesn't mean everybody else should.
And why ? So far you haven't shown that belief to be based on facts. You just state it, and in so doing showcase your own ignorance.
What's simpler than crashing four planes into buildings and leaving it at that ?
How can debating people who show you wrong again and again convince you that you're right ?
Heiwa, a cockroach could prove you wrong.
Belz...
Fiend God
So far, so good. But then:
So, basically, you "happen" to have a different opinion "based on the info available" but you ignore all of the FBI evidence because it isn't completely convincing to you ? How do you call that ?
Oh, yeah. You call that dishonest.
Again: WHAT ABOUT THOSE PIECES OF WRECKAGE ALL OVER THE LAWN ?
Policy of what ?
So, no matter how much evidence is against you, you will never change your opinion ? Thank you for showing how close-minded you are.
Belz...
Fiend God
What if you decide to factor in the 767 that crashed into it ?
Enormous ? Based on what ? Since when do they design buildings to withstand the inconceivable ?
And yet the structural experts of the world disagree with you. Why do you think that is ? I'd like an answer to this particular question, if only that.
Ridiculous. You can CLEARLY see the exterior columns bowing because of the load.
Could you show how you know this ?
That's what we call a false dichotomy. Also a non sequitur, of course.
stateofgrace
Unregistered
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Actually it proves a whole lot more than that. It proves you have not got a clue what you are talking about and are simply making it up as you go along.
Yes what about those? What were they? How could they end up there if the explosion was caused by a pre-positioned device that detonated in the wall?
Panoply_Prefect
Graduate Poster
I would very much imagine you are the person to try to answer that question. You claim pre-planted explosives in the lawn, you fit it with the rest of the facts.
It is easy by structural analysis just using simple beam elements and the right connections.
The perimeter walls are 60 off vertical beams/columns each connected at every floor level by horizontal beams (spandrels) all around that can transfer shear forces/bending moments between the columns.
This makes the perimeter (the four walls) like a very strong cage. All vertical (columns) and horizontal (spandrels) beams are very well connected = enormous redundancy.
You could also imagine tower to be a steel box with the walls to be of steel plates, stiffened by the columns vertically and by the spandrels horizontally, and then with holes for the windows.
The core columns are just vertical 'flag poles' all the way up.
The floors consist of trusses that are simply hanging on the perimeter and core columns (actually they are only bolted to them).
This means that the floors can only transfer the gravity load on the floors themselves to the core/perimeter columns. The floor trusses cannot transfer any gravity loads from a perimeter to a core column (the inner flag poles).
But the floors can transmit horizontal loads (wind) from perimeter to core columns. And they also support the perimeter/core columns horizontally. Buckling of a perimeter column due to gravity load is no problem - the critical buckling length of a perimeter column is 4X the floor height = you can disconnect three floors from the perimeter column and it still stands.
The columns are designed to have constant stress all the way down to the ground using thicker and/or stronger (high tensile) steel at the lower parts.
The spandrels do not transfer any (shear) loads in undamaged condition but have a big shear area can can transfer very big loads in damage cases (redundancy).
The floor trusses are designed to transmit the gravity load on the floor to the columns and the horizontal/lateral wind loads between columns.
The hat trusses at the top can be ignored (they just distribute the roof (the antenna) load to all columns).
I must admire the designers of the WTCs. The above design is very strong with enormous redundancy.
So when a hole is blown in the south side of WTC2 and cuts 30 perimeter columns nothing happens. The gravity loads in these perimeter columns are transmitted via the spandrels above to the other perimeter columns all around.
A fire starts! The perimeter columns are not affected by the heat as they are on the outside (cool air). NIST suggests the floor trusses are affected by heat. First (we are told) they expand due to heat and pushes the perimeter columns out, then (we are told) they sag due to heat and pull the perimeter columns in. But there is no real weight on the trusses and the heat is small so the sag cannot be very big. It is not possible that the heat can shear off the bolts that connect the trusses ot the columns. So the columns are still supported sideways by the floors. No global collapse can ever just 'ensue'.
But NIST suggests (without evidence) that the middle east wall perimeter columns starts to buckle (you need three floors to be disconnected then) and that the gravity load in these columns is the redistributed to the adjacent perimeter columns via the spandrels above all the way to the roof. This is correct. But the load is not just redistributed to the adjacent columns but all around the tower (like for the hole in the south wall).
NIST also suggests that gravity loads on the east wall is also redistributed to the core via the floors but it is not possible due the floors only being hanging on/being bolted to the columns (and the hat trusses can be ignored).
Then NIST suggests that all perimeter columns in the east wall buckles (disconnected at three floor levels) ... and that global collapse ensues. This is not proven and is not even possible due the spandrels above = the enormous redundancy of the tower. Actually the tower will still stand when you remove the complete east wall between floors 78-82!
The photos you show showing the east wall bending inward seem misleading.
The reason is that the gravity loads on the floors above the east wall floor 82 (only about 10-15% of the total gravity load above floor 82) are easily redistributed to the other three walls via the spandrels at 20 floor levels above. The core columns are not affected at all!
For anything like 'global collapse' to occur you have to disconnect the floors 79, 80 and 81 all around the tower ... and what would happen then?
Probably the walls would drop down to floor 78 ... but the core would still stand. The tower would just sag.
What would not happen is what we see - the tower exploding throwing columns high up in the air and long way sideways. The columns are still connected both by the spandrels and the floors.
We also see material being blown out through the windows all around the tower prior to the 'global collapse' front reaches the relevant windows at very high velocity. This material being blown out (at high velocity) is parts of the core columns being destroyed by CD!
Actually the tower collapses inward/downward by CD of the core columns that fall down and the damaged core columns pull the floors and perimeter columns with them. The floors disintegrate in a cloud of cement dust blwon out and the perimeter columns bursts like spagetti and are thrown out (and the spandrels cannot stop anything).
Any structural engineer can re-make above using simple beam elemants/analysis at nominal temperature. No need to confuse matters with thermal loadings, etc.
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Don't be obtuse. The explosives were just pre-planted in the pentagon. So where did the alleged air plane werckage parts on the lawn come from? What were they according to FBI. From AA77? Come on!
Panoply_Prefect
Graduate Poster
Are you quite sane? They came from AA77. If you think otherwise, prove it.
So I was there to assist founding it (the original company remained and another was added with a new name and expanded their services to outside clients). No magic at all.
Yes I am sane. That's why I think FBI shall first show that all wreckage parts originate from AA77. It should not be too difficult. Their failure not to do so for almost six years is the origin of many conspiracy theories. I have only seen various photos of alleged wreckage parts from pentagon and cannot prove anything obviously. But the parts I have seen on the lawn do not look like plane parts.