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Is It Possible There Is An Afterlife?

You're talking about a qualititively different kind of "faith" here. Sure, by a certain definition I have faith that I won't fall through my chair and hurt my butt. But that is very much not the same thing as having faith that Jesus was resurrected and will let me into his exclusive club if I grovel to him enough.

I am confident that I will not fall through my chair. I do not have faith in the same way as some people have faith in God.

Arthwollipot,

My point about faith is the underlying mechanism in are brains for faith, in the sense of developing a belief over something we have learned that we then take actions upon having faith that what we learned is true and does apply. This underlying mechanism is required for our thinking processes.

But, goes hand in hand with the required process of prediction that our mind does.

Our mind is capable of creating a natural version of a virtual reality inside our minds, in other words, a dream, an imaginative projection, a mental vision, a hallucination and so on. Sometimes these can be so vivid that only our reasoning can indicate for us that is was imagined and not real. This is because our mind is capable of creating an imagined experience in full sensory detail.

Our minds use this ability to run predictive simulations about things we have and are experiencing. This simulations are going on at what I’d call an astonishing rate, with multiple simulations taking place at any given time. Every possible situation we can think of, our brain runs simulations of, over and over and over again. The simulations go through every possibility we can think of and predict possible outcomes.

This normally all takes place in the subconscious.

But, in order for us to make decision to act, there is a mechanism of faith that allows us to choose a prediction and act upon it.

Sometimes we have to make a leap of faith over something our prediction indicate are not that likely to be true. For example, we have to leap across a space that we predict we have little chance of making. But we have to do it. If we have no faith at all in making it, we either will not make the jump or we will jump with the belief we are going to fall. The tendency though is to have faith we can make it, even if the chances are small, because we have to make the jump and we don’t want to fall.

In some cases, this mechanism for faith can reach right out into believing in what we have predicted is false.

The space we need to jump is 24 foot across. We know from experience that we can only jump 18 feet at best. If we don’t jump we die. If we jump and miss we die. Some people we make a leap of faith that they can make the jump anyway and leap across the space based of the faithful believe they can make it. Of course, then they almost certainly plunge to their death.

But this is the underlying mental mechanism for religious belief. In effect we are hardwired for the potential of developing religious belief. Even though the prediction for the religious belief of being true are very poor, it provide a valuable hope.
  • I don’t have to fear death because my immortal soul will carry on.
  • After I die having lived this miserable life I will be rewarded for my suffering by going to the paradise of heaven.
  • Justice and fairness have failed in life but God will correct that in the afterlife.
  • All I have to do is accept Jesus Christ and all my sins will be forgiven and I will go to Heaven when I die.
These are all pretty good motivations for people to believe and have faith in something which is predictable untrue.

Personally, I prefer to have faith in things which are predictable true.
 
Ah, Edge,

I was not trying to scare you off.

But I know that when you make a post and many people begin posting arguments against you, it can become a very unwelcome environment to post in.

Is not the immortal soul you speak of in a baby when the baby is born?

You know that you have this immortal soul because God told you that you have one?

Let us estimate that your life will be 100 years long and your immortal soul will be around more than 20 billion years. What will your soul be doing the other 19,999,999,900+ years after your mortal life is over?
 
23Then he said to them all: "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me.

He has already seen the destiny that is about to happen but the guys around him weren’t allowed to speak on it, it’s a hint.

20"But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?"
Peter answered, "The Christ[a] of God."
Peter knew about the prophecies in the old testaments.
21Jesus strictly warned them not to tell this to anyone. 22And he said, "The Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life."
Conquering death to prove it in this world. And the reporters will take it from there, at least 200 eyewitness news people.
While everyone was marveling at all that Jesus did, he said to his disciples, 44"Listen carefully to what I am about to tell you: The Son of Man is going to be betrayed into the hands of men." 45But they did not understand what this meant. It was hidden from them, so that they did not grasp it, and they were afraid to ask him about it.
arthwollipot says, and asks,
Yeah, nice. But what about those of us who don't accept the authority of scripture? What do you have for us?

24For I tell you that many prophets and kings wanted to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it."

27 I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God."
The believers will not taste death they go on and those that purposely reject stay behind.
Time is not issues get there first. Do you think that good things won’t be there, that you will get bored?

From the Proof Of God thread,

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2840875#post2840875
Bored
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2839501#post2839501

Was the soul there in the beginning? It was with God till he puts it into a human.
In the fetus there is no brain there to be able to bring along a memory of that other side because if we did we would all be saved by knowing and then we would fall on the other side of death any way, it’s a test to see if with total freewill, will we recognize on our own what is right or wrong by faith in God or will we rebel and follow the wrong foundation of principalities.
16"No one lights a lamp and hides it in a jar or puts it under a bed. Instead, he puts it on a stand, so that those who come in can see the light. 17For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open. 18Therefore consider carefully how you listen. Whoever has will be given more; whoever does not have, even what he thinks he has will be taken from him."

The more knowledge I acquire and faith the more faith I get, I keep seeing more.
He is saying you got to have faith first to get more insight.

“17For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.”

This part is what happens to skeptics, “whoever does not have, even what he thinks he has will be taken from him."

So you may never see, that you will have less insight. You keep going down that road you will never have proof. If you don’t want to prove it to yourself you will never see more proof.

How does this happen? That life force went somewhere and is brought back; now think did God transfer a soul into Adam when he breathed life into Adam?
The body was there what did he put into him to make him come to life?
The body had to be living to be acceptable to take a soul.
That is the soul. His power is so great he can redo it after death here or there.
14Then he went up and touched the coffin, and those carrying it stood still. He said, "Young man, I say to you, get up!" 15The dead man sat up and began to talk, and Jesus gave him back to his mother.
More eyewitnesses.
We are given a chance to come around to God because of the question of being away from God and following the principality of good verses evil, that’s why we are here can we figure it out alone? Yes and no, Even by being good you have sinned if you don’t believe. So therefore you are not good a soul as a skeptic; by interfering with Gods plan to save everybody.
Why you say?
Because that other person that you influenced may not be as good as you were therefore you take his only chance in the belief of Jesus to be saved you have interfered with his plan for life for all everlasting.
Therefore you have sinned with lack of the faith that God has given as a gift for all through his sons sacrifice for us to get a pass to that everlasting life and imposed a death sentence on an innocent being, who will probably be excused since you will now take it up for the person you have deceived, (you become his sacrifice and have accomplished nothing anyway.)
Take the scales off of your eyes.

Radfan says,
Tell me this edge, many, many people have relied on faith in these gods, why should they not be blessed.
None of those have shown anything in real life, and can't conquered death.
And everything I said above.

Pophoff says,
Edge thinks that no matter where he was born in this world he would be a Christian, but he wouldn't be true. Whatever religion his parents were he would be to.

Paul
Wrong. Read above, God already knows my heart and he knows yours and what I write here and now may not stick and might be you last chance.
This part, “whoever does not have, even what he thinks he has will be taken from him."
This is where you are at right now. But you still have that chance for something to click, because he is using me, maybe to talk to you.
I am fascinated by what he is doing by my writings because, "No one lights a lamp and hides it in a jar or puts it under a bed. Instead, he puts it on a stand, so that those who come in can see the light. 17For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.
I would never come up with these answers. Then to see even farther, but I’m still not perfect, not yet.
I could fall and be devoured by your false principalities! Like others in here, (NOT), but there’s example of the opposite happening in here like the writer of the other thread, he was an atheist, Proof Of God. Praise the Lord it does work.

Oppressed says,
These are all pretty good motivations for people to believe and have faith in something which is predictable untrue.
They are finding out now that the history of what’s written in the Bible is true the time lines are correct and documented even better than expected.
Personally, I prefer to have faith in things, which are predictable true.
But not things like history that are proven events?
Well the death of us all is predictably true, but I have faith that’s its an illusion.
Now I must go talk about Mars.
 
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Pophoff says,

Wrong. Read above, God already knows my heart and he knows yours and what I write here and now may not stick and might be you last chance.
This part, “whoever does not have, even what he thinks he has will be taken from him."
Wrong, there is no so-called god edge, no big daddy in the sky, none, zero, zip.

Oh and why do you called this god of yours a male, if it isn't sexless, then it isn't a so-called god.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
Wrong, there is no so-called god edge, no big daddy in the sky, none, zero, zip.

Oh and why do you called this god of yours a male, if it isn't sexless, then it isn't a so-called god.

Paul

:) :) :)

Really, there's always a father and a mother, to Jesus he was his father what is he to you, the SON OF GOD.
Did he not have a mother?
 
Really, there's always a father and a mother, to Jesus he was his father what is he to you, the SON OF GOD.
Did he not have a mother?
That is sooooooooooooooooooooooooo human to think on such small terms. Sorry edge, but your ideas of a so-called god leave much to be desired. You make so many excuses up for the your childish so-called god.

Paul

:) :) :)

Love, and you seem to have a very funny idea of what that word means too.
 
Edge,

Is not the immortal soul you speak of in a baby when the baby is born?

You know that you have this immortal soul because God told you that you have one?

Let us estimate that your life will be 100 years long and your immortal soul will be around more than 20 billion years. What will your soul be doing the other 19,999,999,900+ years after your mortal life is over?
 
None of those have shown anything in real life, and can't conquered death.
And your god has? I think the followers would beg to differ with you. You are simply asserting something. I doubt that will fly on this forum. The Bible is a work of fiction. That you believe otherwise doesn't change anything.

I'll happily consider any evidence that you have to the contrary though.
 
Who's driving this thing ??

:)
A magical so-called soul does not truly explain anything, show a true reason for one, or we might as well talk about how many souls you can get on the head of a needle because a magical soul can be anything without some real proof.

Paul

:) :) :)

The reason for the soul is the same reason a car needs a driver. Science has yet to prove it, but that is the fact of it. A body without a soul behaves just like a car without a driver.* The body is like a space-suit, but with senses built into it that communicate feelings back to the soul. The soul steers the body based on the feelings the body gives it. In exchange the soul gets to visit Earth, and experience a life. The process is repeated again and again with new bodies. What I don't understand, is how anyone can DOUBT that there is a driver?

I interpret "soul" to mean: the force that animates a "living" body. It comes and goes as it pleases, and when it leaves the body the person dies.

Do you want a deeper explanation of the soul's need of a body ?

*robot cars don't count ! It's just a metaphor !:)
 
:)

The reason for the soul is the same reason a car needs a driver. Science has yet to prove it, but that is the fact of it.
I guess you don't know what a brain is, and I guess you have very little understanding of science. So please tell me how a word, four letters, explains anything. And how much proof do you need to understand that you are your brain.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
Reincarnation. (oops, I said it.)

:D Living 19,999,999,900+ other lives to see what life is like in someone else's shoes. The universe knows itself through our experiences.:D

Really think about that, and get back to me. (drink some hot tea).

I celebrate you, and whatever beliefs/non-beliefs you hold; but this is a forum for science, and I am here to discuss what I know about this subject point blank. The soul animates a physical body in this dimension to experience a new life, creating a new experience, so that infinity(every possible possibility) can exist throughout infinity. It's almost silly to think that there isn't some sort of order to the process of all this life and death!

If there isn't a soul, I'd like to know what theories explain animated beings, and living things.
 
Trusting your eyes.

I guess you don't know what a brain is, and I guess you have very little understanding of science. So please tell me how a word, four letters, explains anything. And how much proof do you need to understand that you are your brain.

Paul

:) :) :)

The brain digests the feelings that the body is feeding it, and communicates with the soul in it's own language.

The problem with this argument is experience. You are empirical, and need direct experience in order to believe in a soul you will have to see a soul, am I correct ?
 
The brain digests the feelings that the body is feeding it, and communicates with the soul in it's own language.
Show a need for the soul, because there is none, show me the soul, you can't because there is none.

Paul

:) :) :)

Word it anyway you what, and you will, but still you have no proof and/or show no need for a soul, the brain in all you and nothing else is.
 
The problem with this argument is experience. You are empirical, and need direct experience in order to believe in a soul you will have to see a soul, am I correct ?
No, experience can be very missleading, experience told people for thousands of years that the earth did not move and was the center of all the universe that was known to them.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
If there isn't a soul, I'd like to know what theories explain animated beings, and living things.
I don't believe that you do want to know, I think your brain can't even deal with the fact that it is all that it is, and has no need of a soul. You don't even know who you are, but don't feel bad, many brains don't.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
Criteria to meet for proof of soul.

No, experience can be very missleading, experience told people for thousands of years that the earth did not move and was the center of all the universe that was known to them.

Paul

:) :) :)

What will prove to you that a soul exists?:confused:
 
What will prove to you that a soul exists?:confused:
Well, I don't think that is very hard, it is a thing called evidence, something called a need, show me something missing from the equation. Why don’t you read a few books on the brain, there are many on the subject. What you feel should be do not make it so, and what you don’t understand doesn’t mean I don’t.

Paul

:) :) :)

Read some articles about strokes, that may help you.
 
What will prove to you that a soul exists?:confused:

Do you feel you are a 'soul' trapped in a body? Because I feel like I'm a Body with a Brain on top. I really don't feel a separate 'soul' within me. But maybe you actually feel like a trapped entity. Bummer.
 
The brain digests the feelings that the body is feeding it, and communicates with the soul in it's own language.

The problem with this argument is experience.
The problem with this argument is that it is two unsported premises. Perhaps you would be best calling it a claim.

You are empirical, and need direct experience in order to believe in a soul you will have to see a soul, am I correct ?
As a former dualist who racked up several thousand posts arguing for a soul I can say that NO, I don't need to see a soul anymore than I need to see DNA or an Atom. I just need evidence and logic. Demonstrate the soul.
 
Quote:
You are empirical, and need direct experience in order to believe in a soul you will have to see a soul, am I correct ?

Oh they will but only on the other side of life, after death, they will see they're true self as it is meant to be.
RandFan says,
As a former dualist who racked up several thousand posts arguing for a soul I can say that NO, I don't need to see a soul anymore than I need to see DNA or an Atom. I just need evidence and logic. Demonstrate the soul.
It will happen whether your need is there or not.
We all will get the demonstration just be more patient than the person in your avatar.
 

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