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Bigfoot - The Patterson-Gimlin Film

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Luminous said:
Here's Patty walking between two trees spaced closely together.

PDVD_369.jpg
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A little late I guess, but In case Loomy is still lurking, I thought he would be interested in knowing those two trees are 58 feet apart..

http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=8536&view=findpost&p=169812
 
I'm sorry Mangler, I really do ..

You have brought us some really great stuff..

I just didn't pay close attention to that particular post....

It didn't click with me that it was showing distances between trees,,,

Sorry ....:o
 
So as long as we are talking about trees . . . yesterdays model anyway.

I'm not sure if this left field view has ever been brought up from this angle before. If it has disregard and beat me.

What these photos are going too help show, is the illusion of height. You folks as a whole are far more intelligent than I so I wont go into much detail, I'll just let the Photo's speak for themself.

All the red and white arrows and #'s are simply reference points, these photos also help illustrate how different lenses, f-stops, shutter speeds, camera angles etc. effect a photograph, photography 101.

I do the arrow and # exercise because looking at a scene from different perspectives often helps me discover something entirely different from what I was seeking in the first place. Like this for example.

Look at the crotch of the tree in 352, what do you see compared to all the other photos? I see a tree that appears taller. I realize Patterson was short but I'm almost under the impression that he was crouching. Of course this could be due too the sediment left by water run-off in the years between the time these photos were takin. I don't claim to know anything here but I really have to give a thumbs down to everyone involved. Not only for piss-poor camera angles but also camera elevation. How can one group of people be so utterly screwed-up all the time. From beginning to end.

I think I recall tube speaking about patty being under 6 feet at one time, kind of funny but you never know.

m









 
Here are some comparisons I did when I wasn't satisfied with people continually using reference points so far away from the subject matter. Come on at least use something close. These are by no means exact but they are ballpark. And again it doesn't prove anything, patty is still fairly thick.

FYI the one with two arrows I separated after I merged so more of patty would show.

m






 
tube,

It's funny how that other neighbor of mine posts about shoddy work, "an embarrassment to any science professionals" sometimes it seems like that's all I post about, there certainly is no shortage of it

I can't remember Dfoots pics in regard to patty's size, did he take them with him when he bailed?

m
 
I can't help but chuckle about how they spent all that time at the film site; taking measurements; filming, etc...

But no one is out in the woods with dogs, looking for Patty !!

40 Years later and nothing has changed, ...


No.1 Rule of Squatchery: Do not look for where Squatch may be, look only where he has been ..

:confused:
 
bruto said:
But don't you remember the drill? Dogs won't go near a bigfoot or...no...wait, it's a bigfoot will tear your dogs to shreds....no, wait... well, anyway, dogs are out.
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Dogs are part of the conspiracy.

Along with the Red Cross, which is controlled by the CIA, which is in turn operated by the Boy Scouts.

Really.

*Huntsman runs out to buy more tinfoil*
 
Them cowboys from Yakima call a Sorrel a red horse. As far as the rest . . .


"Bob Heironimus is also quoted, saying that Patterson made the suit himself by skinning a dead horse and gluing fur from an old fur coat on the horsehide. It was in three parts, head, torso and legs that felt like bigger rubber boots and that went to his waist. He thought the feet were made of old house slippers. The suit weighted 20 or 25 pounds and he needed help to get in and out of it. It also smelled bad. "It stunk. Roger skinned out a dead, red horse."

John Green


"Heironimus says he was told by his brother Howard that the suit was manufactured by Patterson from a “real dark brown” horse hide (Long, 344). This point is repeated several times: “It stunk: Roger skinned out a dead, red horse” (ibid). Heironimus also reports that he was told by Howard the suit’s fur was from an old fur coat."

Not sure where I got that quote.


I also seem to remember something to the effect of a green hide in some statement. I can't remember if it was stated that the hide had been salted or not. As par for the P/G film conflicting statements are the norm.


m
 
William Parcher said:
Six days without a posting about Bigfoot is too long...

BFF thread on "Patterson skinning a dead RED horse."

Exactly what did Bob Heironimus say to Greg Long about this?
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Mangler pretty much covers it.

The horse hide story comes from Long's book, where Long is asking about BH's memory of the suit.

BH Says his brother told him that Patterson told him he had skinned a ( red ) horse and used it to make a suit.

Some footers jump on this as an indication of a hole in BH's story, since they cannot see any evidence, that what they see in the film, could possibly involve red horse hide...

Again they ignore the fact, that eliminating anything as a material used in making the suit, does not eliminate the possibility that it is a suit.
 
I don't see how this is a hole in his story or evidence that he is lying. BH isn't telling us exactly what the suit was constructed from, instead he's telling us what his brother Howard told him. It's possible that Patterson didn't tell the whole truth to Howard, or even that Howard didn't tell the truth. The only way for Bob to be lying is if his brother never said those things and he's just making that up. That BH even went as far as saying Howard told him two different things (horsehide and fur coat) suggests to me that he is telling everything he remembers. If you are fabricating a story like this, why offer obviously conflicting things including a color that might not match so well? No, he's not making this stuff up. He's telling us what his brother told him. If it doesn't make sense it doesn't mean it's a big lie told by Bob.

Roger Knights can squawk all he wants about horsehide being noticibly different from Dynel, and I wouldn't disagree. But that's not the point. The question of BH's honesty is not hinged on his ability to tell us exactly what the suit was made from. It's about his honest recollections even if we disagree with him about the proposed details.

Bob Heironimus is going to be on another live internet radio show tonight. He'll again be taking questions from Pattycakes who think he is making everything up. Too bad Gimlin won't do that sort of thing.

X Zone Radio at 10pm EST.
 
In the thread you referenced, Roger Knights concedes the construction of the suit is not a show stopper for BH ..

BH only relates his recollections of his perceptions and what he was told at the time...



P.S
Check out my last post in that thread in response to Lu's sharp detective work..

If she didn't have me on ignore, my sarcasm would probably go right over her head..

We'll see if anyone else catches it ...


The proponents don't seem to know how to deal with me not actually insisting that BH was in the suit..

They end up struggling with what color a red horse is ..
 
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It makes no difference at all if BH is lying, of course. That says nothing about the film's authenticity whatsoever.

Preaching to the choir... :w2:

They end up struggling with what color a red horse is ..
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Personally, I think it was an elk hide. A nice round circle that comes to... :D
 
This never-ending talk about the red horsehide is a red herring. It can't be used to show that Heironimus is making up the whole story about being Patty in the PGF. The use of this issue against BH only shows the ridiculous desperation and refusal to be reasonable. The belief that Patty is a real Bigfoot is a bizarre (if not crazy) thing to think in the first place. That believer is easy to peg as being gullible, credulous or just flat-out fanciful. They already sound like a "cryptozoologist" in the satirical sense. That kind of person also strikes me as one who might easily latch onto the various arguments that Pattycakes use against Bob Heironimus. It doesn't even matter if the arguments don't show that BH is lying about the whole thing. These are many of the posters in that BFF thread. Anyway, enough ranting on the Pattycakes. That gets boring quickly.

I genuinely respect your (and other PGF skeptics) skepticism of the situation with BH confessing to being the wearer of the suit. I do think it was him, but I don't have any silver bullet arguments to use in my favor. I would say that it is unfortunate that Bob doesn't have any physical evidence that ties him to the hoax. He doesn't have the suit, he didn't take pictures of the suit, he apparently doesn't have things like receipts, invoices or written agreements. If he had only asked for, and then saved gas receipts for his journey to California and back to Washington, this could be a whole different situation. But my confidence in BH comes from the sum total (or even non-cumulative) of the factual circumstances that tie Heronimus to Patterson (and most importantly, to Gimlin). Everyone knows that it is a fact that BH, RP & BG all lived pretty close to each other in the Yakima area. BH was used by RP in his Bigfoot documentary. We have a photo of the mounted "Bigfoot hunters" that shows Roger, Gimlin, BH and his brother Howard among others. This tells me that BH is not just some Joe Blow coming out of nowhere that decides to claim to be the-guy-in-the-suit. That's apparently not enough to seal the deal (BH's confession) and I respect that. So, I'm saying that I can't really tell you ABC about Bob's testimony and expect you to fling yourself right into my belief.

When I listened to the Biscardi show with BH, I started to like the guy for his inherent personality. To me he sounds genuine; but naively confident that his confession-by-narration will, or ought to, convince everyone including the Pattycakes. I begin to understand Bob's situation when I try to imagine myself in his shoes. I really was the guy in the Bigfoot costume shown in the PGF. I never did, nor had a need to know the details of the suit or how Patterson went about constructing the thing. I can remember some things about the suit, and I'm pretty sure I can still accurately recall those things. After 30+ years, I decided to go public with my confession. I don't really have anything to show the world other than my story. I can walk for you in front of your camera using the same sort of walk I used for Roger Patterson. Thing is, I pretty much walk that way in my normal life anyway. I've got a weird arm-swing and posture, and you can see it if you spy on me as I walk into the local supermarket. You probably won't see me do the "frame 352 turn-and-look", but I'll do it if you ask me. Yeah, I'll even let you tape me doing the Patty Walk with the turn. I did it for Roger in 1967, and I'll do it again for you now. It might not look exactly the same, and I hope that you understand that I'm now trying to duplicate what I did on that sandbar in Bumfoke California. It does look pretty damn close doesn't it? Yeah it should be pretty similar, for you see I really was the guy in that suit. Would you like a ham sandwich? My wife makes the best damn smoked ham & swiss you have ever eaten.
 
Diogenes said:
In the thread you referenced, Roger Knights concedes the construction of the suit is not a show stopper for BH ..

BH only relates his recollections of his perceptions and what he was told at the time...
Click to expand...

Right. This is easy to see. But Knights uses the term "wiggle room" as if it's part of Heironimus' strategy for lying. When you listen to BH talk live and answer questions, he doesn't sound like a bullcrap artist at all.

"Okay, I've decided to lie to the whole world about being in the Patty suit, and I'm going to build wiggle room into my fabricated recollections so that the world can't easily declare me a liar. Ha ha ha, I'll get famous and rich at the same time. Ha ha ha. I know I wasn't the guy in the suit, but they'll never prove otherwise. Ha ha ha. I'll even say that my old buddy down the street (Gimlin) was part of the hoax and let you come to the conclusion that he is still a liar (after 30+ years) when he tells the story of filming a real Bigfoot. Gimlin knows it certainly wasn't me and he says that it wasn't a costume at all, but he'll never be able to prove any of that. Ha ha ha."
 
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