Israel will nuke Iran

[geni]

Israel tests their nukes on supercomputer simulations. There are no actual explosions.

US tried that. They still had to do a lot of testing to get their mini nukes to work.

 

[RandFan]

Well, before I answer your question, allow me to understand your point of view:
Why is anyone interested in underdeveloped Iran at all? (beside the nuclear question)

What do you mean "interested in"? Are you trying to point out that because Iran has oil we might have other reasons to invade?

Invading Iraq could not ever give us significant control over Iraqi oil. History has demonstrated time and again how silly such a notion is. If anyone had any such illusions before the Iraq war, and let's assume so here for argument's sake, they cannot have any now. We can't protect Iraqi oil to control it. It is subject to sabotage on a daily basis. If we really wanted to control the oil we would have to become like Saddam and install strict marshal law. People on the streets who did not have proper papers would be shot on site or imprisoned. Dissenters would be murdered.

We have really messed up there but we have failed because we thought we could install a democracy with a minimum of civil rights abuses. It won't work.

Ok, so Iran, can we control Iranian oil? Does anyone believe that? Anyone? No, we can't. If we invaded Iran the oil fields and pipelines would be ripe for sabotage and oil production would grind to a halt and hurt overall world production as Iraq oil production has.

So, I've answered your question could you now answer mine?

 

[Oliver]

What do you mean "interested in"? Are you trying to point out that because Iran has oil we might have other reasons to invade?

Invading Iraq could not ever give us significant control over Iraqi oil. History has demonstrated time and again how silly such a notion is. If anyone had any such illusions before the Iraq war, and let's assume so here for argument's sake, they cannot have any now. We can't protect Iraqi oil to control it. It is subject to sabotage on a daily basis. If we really wanted to control the oil we would have to become like Saddam and install strict marshal law. People on the streets who did not have proper papers would be shot on site or imprisoned. Dissenters would be murdered.

We have really messed up there but we have failed because we thought we could install a democracy with a minimum of civil rights abuses. It won't work.

Ok, so Iran, can we control Iranian oil? Does anyone believe that? Anyone? No, we can't. If we invaded Iran the oil fields and pipelines would be ripe for sabotage and oil production would grind to a halt and hurt overall world production as Iraq oil production has.

So, I've answered your question could you now answer mine?

No no - that wasn't what my question was about. I meant why were the brittish, french and especially the US interested in Iran since decades? You know, like replacing governments and so on. I wonder if you're aware of a reasonable answer.

 

[RandFan]

No no - that wasn't what my question was about. I meant why were the brittish, french and especially the US interested in Iran since decades? You know, like replacing governments and so on. I wonder if you're aware of a reasonable answer.

I'm not sure how reasonable it is. I think reasonable people can disagree on this issue. Rightly or wrongly America is concerned about rising Islamic fundamentalism.

Now could you answer my question?

 

[Oliver]

I'm not sure how reasonable it is. I think reasonable people can disagree on this issue. Rightly or wrongly America is concerned about rising Islamic fundamentalism.

Now could you answer my question?

I know about that and as far I see, there was no yield coming from US-POV:

Before the Revolution with the Shah, the United States was Iran's foremost economic and military partner, thus participating greatly in the rapid modernization of its infrastructure and industry with as many as thirty thousand American expatriates residing in the country in a technical, consulting, or teaching capacity. A posteriori, some analysts argue that the transformation may have been too rapid, fueling unrest and discontent among an important part of the population in the country, which culminated with the revolution itself in 1979.


The issue of frozen Iranian assets is especially sensitive for the Iranian government. After the 1979 seizure of the American Embassy in Tehran, the United States froze about $12 billion in Iranian assets, including bank deposits, gold and other properties. According to U.S. officials, most of those were released in 1981 as part of the deal for the return of U.S. hostages taken in the embassy seizure. But some assets--Iranian officials say $10 billion, U.S. officials say much less--remain frozen pending resolution of legal claims arising from the revolution.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States-Iran_relations#The_1979_Iran_hostage_crisis


The militants demanded that: the Shah, who ruled Iran for decades with an iron fist and was now seeking medical treatment in the West, be turned over to them for trial; that the United States apologize for crimes against the Iranian people; and that the Shah's assets be paid to them.

Source: http://www.super70s.com/Super70s/News/1979/November/4-Iranian_Hostage_Crisis.asp

So my question remains: What was/is the reason to be present in the middle east [especially Iran] as much as America is since decades?

I know this is inconvenient - but unfortunately, it's the base to understand foreign politics.

 

[RandFan]

I know about that and as far I see, there was no yield coming from US-POV:

So my question remains: What was/is the reason to be present in the middle east [especially Iran] as much as America is since decades?

I know this is inconvenient - but unfortunately, it's the base to understand foreign politics.

Oliver,

• I have asked an honest and sincere question.
• You have asked an honest and sincere question.
• I have provided an honest and sincere answer to your question.

If you would like to expound on your beliefs as to your question then that would be fine. However, I asked my question first and I think it deserves an answer.

I'm waiting...

 

[Oliver]

-What do you mean "interested in"?

I meant: Why is there a need to replace a Shah in a lousy country some thousand miles away?

-Are you trying to point out that because Iran has oil we might have other reasons to invade?

No, I'm not trying to point this out. Even if it makes more sense than every answer I heard so far.

- Ok, so Iran, can we control Iranian oil?

No, you can't - but with good diplomacies it's much easier to have advantages towards what "you have" and what "we need". So? What else is the need for the US to intervene down there in Iran? Israel?

- Does anyone believe that?

Yep. It looks like your government believes that. Any other explanations?

 

[RandFan]

Yep. It looks like your government believes that.

You are only asserting this.

Any other explanations?

Ignoring my explanations and refusing to answer my questions is very disapointing Oliver but I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

 

[RandFan]

Oliver,

• I have asked an honest and sincere question.
• You have asked an honest and sincere question.
• I have provided an honest and sincere answer to your question.

If you would like to expound on your beliefs as to your question then that would be fine. However, I asked my question first and I think it deserves an answer.

I'm waiting...

FTR, I'm still waiting. I'll breathe now.

 

[Oliver]

FTR, I'm still waiting. I'll breathe now.

You asked so many questions ... which one are you referring to?
And while you're at it: Why replace the Shah?

 

[RandFan]

You asked so many questions ... which one are you referring to?

For crying in the dark.

The point is that Iran is sitting on large oil reserves and the world has offered to provide them with nuclear fuel. They have refused saying that they want to make it themselves.

If what they wanted was as innocent as you suggest then why do they refuse nuclear fuel from the rest of the world? They could start up their program anytime the rest of the world didn't live up the bargain.

Given that they have vast reserves of oil and have been offered nuclear fuel it is not reasonable to believe that they are not trying to make a bomb.

Well, before I answer your question, allow me to understand your point of view:
Why is anyone interested in underdeveloped Iran at all? (beside the nuclear question)

 

[RandFan]

And while you're at it: Why replace the Shah?

An attempt to influence the direction of Iran and influence Mid-East politics.

 

[Oliver]

For crying in the dark.

You pointed it out already. Why aren't you able to draw the line between their oil and the need for a "nuclear insurance" for your own?

Meaning: What if Iran wants nuclear weapons to protect it's oil?
You know, like US wants nuclear weapons to protect it's superpower-status.

 

[RandFan]

You pointed it out already. Why aren't you able to draw the line between their oil and the need for a "nuclear insurance" for your own?

Meaning: What if Iran wants nuclear weapons to protect it's oil?
You know, like US wants nuclear weapons to protect it's superpower-status.

1. You haven't answered the question.
2. My point has nothing to do with Iran's motivation.
3. I only posit that Iran want's a bomb.
4. I can only assume by your changing of the subject that you now agree.
5. Your last statement has nothing whatsoever to do with the subject at hand since I don't defend America's possesion of nuclear weapons neither have I said in this discussion that Iran doesn't have a right to nuclear weapons.

It would be nice if you could stick to the subject Oliver.

 

[Oliver]

1. You haven't answered the question.
2. My point has nothing to do with Iran's motivation.
3. I only posit that Iran want's a bomb.
4. I can only assume by your changing of the subject that you now agree.
5. Your last statement has nothing whatsoever to do with the subject at hand since I don't defend America's possesion of nuclear weapons neither have I said in this discussion that Iran doesn't have a right to nuclear weapons.

It would be nice if you could stick to the subject Oliver.

Well, ask your question - I can't keep track about the [now] 9 threads I'm posting in...

 

[RandFan]

Well, ask your question - I can't keep track about the [now] 9 threads I'm posting in...

Here is an idea. Why not simply answer the question instead of promising to answer my questions after you ask me one of your own? In the future you answer my question first and then ask me your's, fair enough?

Ok, for the third time I will ask the damn question.

You asked so many questions ... which one are you referring to?

For crying in the dark.

The point is that Iran is sitting on large oil reserves and the world has offered to provide them with nuclear fuel. They have refused saying that they want to make it themselves.

If what they wanted was as innocent as you suggest then why do they refuse nuclear fuel from the rest of the world? They could start up their program anytime the rest of the world didn't live up the bargain.

Given that they have vast reserves of oil and have been offered nuclear fuel it is not reasonable to believe that they are not trying to make a bomb.

Well, before I answer your question, allow me to understand your point of view:
Why is anyone interested in underdeveloped Iran at all? (beside the nuclear question)

Is it reasonable to believe that Iran wants to make a nuclear bomb?

 

[Oliver]

Here is an idea. Why not simply answer the question instead of promising to answer my questions after you ask me one of your own? In the future you answer my question first and then ask me your's, fair enough?

Ok, for the third time I will ask the damn question.

For crying in the dark.

Is it reasonable to believe that Iran wants to make a nuclear bomb?

Yeah, thats exactly what I said: "It would make sense to have the bomb".
So what????

Does this proof they want to dominate the world "just like the Jooooos"?
Are they going to overthrow the US-Superpower???

What the * are you getting at? Are you paranoid???

 

[geni]

Yeah, thats exactly what I said: "It would make sense to have the bomb".
So what????

Does this proof they want to dominate the world "just like the Jooooos"?
Are they going to overthrow the US-Superpower???

What the * are you getting at? Are you paranoid???

Iran doesn't really need nukes to protect it's oil. No one in the area is strong enough to do that and even the US would be unable to gaining meaningful control over the place.

On the other hand nukes would allow iran signifcant power projection with more limted risks. At the moment Iran runs the risk that one of it's proxies manages to seriously piss off both the west and Israel at the same time.

With nukes Iran can dominate large areas of the middle east with impunity.

 

[Oliver]

Iran doesn't really need nukes to protect it's oil. No one in the area is strong enough to do that and even the US would be unable to gaining meaningful control over the place.

On the other hand nukes would allow iran signifcant power projection with more limted risks. At the moment Iran runs the risk that one of it's proxies manages to seriously piss off both the west and Israel at the same time.

With nukes Iran can dominate large areas of the middle east with impunity.

Blah, blah blah. The US is the worlds military superpower. It doesn't need nuclear weapons.

If Israel has nuclear bombs - of course it would be fair if Iran has them, too. Guess what: No one should have them. Your point ... ? But, but, but...

 

[RandFan]

Yeah, thats exactly what I said: "It would make sense to have the bomb".

OMG



Ok Oliver, one more time. Jesus mother mary of god.

First of all: Provide evidence that Iran wants a bomb. Just because the World is crapping their pants about it, doesn't make it a fact.

Oliver: Provide evidence that Iran wants a bomb

2 hours later:

Oliver: That's what I said, it makes sense that Iran wants a bomb.

Ok Oliver, which side of your mouth are you talking out of?