carlson test and debunking randi

[Lennyhipp]

NICE of the forum bot to WARN me not to post URLs before just deleting what i took 10 minutes to type up! <insert favorite curse word here>

It appears I've come upon this forum topic about a week too late! i would have LOVED to have taken part in this experiment as I am directly related to the topic this forum is about. Over on James Young's website, we've been having a one-sided flame war going on for 3 months now. He'll post something there, instead of in an open forum where i'm able to respond or defend myself, or even to rationally explain his errors! Some unique brand of coward he is!

I remarked to him how embarrassingly BAD his character profile on me was... he shrugged it off with the nonsense he's posted today on his homepage:

firststop-astrology(dot)com/

Clearly he's NOT interested in knowing the answers if you read his comments. Instead, he's arrogant and SURE of himself... which is even MORE ludicrous.

I also think his removal of his bad videos was in large part due to me. I sent him a lengthy critique of his videos, rationally explaining many of the logic errors contained in each of them, and and on at least two occassions called him a blatant liar for either knowingly saying something he knew to be in error, or deliberately obfuscating the truth. (one of them having to do with the carlson test). I'm working on a website which I'll post later this month which will point out all those errors for all to see (since JY immediately deleted them from the forum postings) and I'm also planning to re-upload his YT videos since their license agreement gives me the right to do so.

BTW, if any of you happen to have downloaded any of his videos, please private message me. (i shoulda been psychic and saw it coming!) I thought i HAD downloaded them all, but only have these:
Carlson Test
Bill Nye
Serious Misgivings
Flaws in Randi's test
Misconceptions

Let me know if any of you would like to participate in a challenge of JY's abilities.

best,
LH

 

[Lennyhipp]

One more thing...

idunno:

If you don't mind, I'd LOVE to see what you come up with:

Male (obviously)
born Mar 25, 1969 at exactly 11:11 pm in Red Bank, NJ

Thanks,
Lenny

 

[Little 10 Toes]

Hey, 11:11, the time where all is one

 

[oakster]

mmmn!!

 

[idunno]

idunno:

If you don't mind, I'd LOVE to see what you come up with:

Male (obviously)
born Mar 25, 1969 at exactly 11:11 pm in Red Bank, NJ

Thanks,
Lenny

as soon as i have time.I thought Dr Kitten wopuld have the results by now.Is he still on the road?

 

[idunno]

NICE of the forum bot to WARN me not to post URLs before just deleting what i took 10 minutes to type up! <insert favorite curse word here>

It appears I've come upon this forum topic about a week too late! i would have LOVED to have taken part in this experiment as I am directly related to the topic this forum is about. Over on James Young's website, we've been having a one-sided flame war going on for 3 months now. He'll post something there, instead of in an open forum where i'm able to respond or defend myself, or even to rationally explain his errors! Some unique brand of coward he is!

I remarked to him how embarrassingly BAD his character profile on me was... he shrugged it off with the nonsense he's posted today on his homepage:

firststop-astrology(dot)com/

Clearly he's NOT interested in knowing the answers if you read his comments. Instead, he's arrogant and SURE of himself... which is even MORE ludicrous.

I also think his removal of his bad videos was in large part due to me. I sent him a lengthy critique of his videos, rationally explaining many of the logic errors contained in each of them, and and on at least two occassions called him a blatant liar for either knowingly saying something he knew to be in error, or deliberately obfuscating the truth. (one of them having to do with the carlson test). I'm working on a website which I'll post later this month which will point out all those errors for all to see (since JY immediately deleted them from the forum postings) and I'm also planning to re-upload his YT videos since their license agreement gives me the right to do so.

BTW, if any of you happen to have downloaded any of his videos, please private message me. (i shoulda been psychic and saw it coming!) I thought i HAD downloaded them all, but only have these:
Carlson Test
Bill Nye
Serious Misgivings
Flaws in Randi's test
Misconceptions

Let me know if any of you would like to participate in a challenge of JY's abilities.

best,
LH

i dont mind testing western astrology but I dont promise anything.
You see western astrology has lost its roots due to persecution for nearly 3 centuries. Astrologers no longer know whats right or wrong, like house systems, asteroids,etc.
I also lost contact with Young.

 

[kieran]

I agree that confirmation bias can go on rampage when dealing with numerology, but as i said, i havent checked yet whether i tend to overlook other numbers that show up in my life or not.When testing numbers we may say tghings like ,theres number 9 again and ignore the 1,5,6 ane so on that show up everyday.But it seems the real important stuff comes withe 9s. I ll check and you may check too cause its piece of cake.

By the way wheres Dr. Kitten

I have checked - as yet there is no such pattern for me that I can uncover ... is there a definitive list of where the important numbers will appear or do I just have to keep looking until I find them? For example, should I extend the birth day/month numbers to include those of my siblings, cousins, friends, neighbours, work colleagues .... will that help?

 

[idunno]

idunno:

If you don't mind, I'd LOVE to see what you come up with:

Male (obviously)
born Mar 25, 1969 at exactly 11:11 pm in Red Bank, NJ

Thanks,
Lenny

heres a quick take. Your chart is a very common one, so you may find my reading a bit vague.
But i see your parents gave you a lot of support,though also imposed restrictions and gave you discipline. You also have an agressive caracter, fighting spirit, and have an original, rebellious mind, which thinks out of the box. You can be quite unscrupulous. You seek knowledge very keenly.Your current 10 year luck cycle 36-45 year old, is about money and women. It looks like you found a girl in 2003 also in 2002 in case youre not already wedded. Since age 36 you have the potencial to make good money . In your case there seems to be not only a rebellious side but also a quiet, studious side and im nt sure which one prevails, but it looks like the quiet side.

 

[idunno]

I have checked - as yet there is no such pattern for me that I can uncover ... is there a definitive list of where the important numbers will appear or do I just have to keep looking until I find them? For example, should I extend the birth day/month numbers to include those of my siblings, cousins, friends, neighbours, work colleagues .... will that help?

yes. My best friends were born on 8s, like the 17 of june. My house is 44(8) my jobcenter 8, my mother born on 8 may, etc
just see if the important numbers appear in important stuff, not just the number of the Bar where you go, which can be meaningless.

 

[kieran]

heres a quick take. Your chart is a very common one, so you may find my reading a bit vague.

How can the precise location and time of birth lead to a chart which is "common"? Does that mean there are places and dates that tend to give more unique charts? What are those places and dates?

 

[kieran]

yes. My best friends were born on 8s, like the 17 of june. My house is 44(8) my jobcenter 8, my mother born on 8 may, etc
just see if the important numbers appear in important stuff, not just the number of the Bar where you go, which can be meaningless.

Nope - still thinking and still not finding *anything*. I really mean nothing, nada, ziltch ...

Maybe my special number has a repulsive effect, so that important thing never happen on that number ... is that an effect of numerology?

 

[idunno]

How can the precise location and time of birth lead to a chart which is "common"? Does that mean there are places and dates that tend to give more unique charts? What are those places and dates?

what I mean by common is a chart that has most elements in balance, nothing really stands out.
Some charts have 1 element in excess and its influence more obvious, and he person normally agrees with what I say.
With common charts the client may find the reading vague.
On the contrary if there is for example a lot of drastic output in the chart, the person will agree that he is very rebellious, original, revolutionary etc.
If a guy has all elements he`ll be a bit rebelious like everyone else, a reasonable student like anybody else or a bit ambitious like anybody else

 

[idunno]

Nope - still thinking and still not finding *anything*. I really mean nothing, nada, ziltch ...

Maybe my special number has a repulsive effect, so that important thing never happen on that number ... is that an effect of numerology?

Whats your birthday?
important numbers are:
- friends and close relatives birthdays
- foes
-house you bought or live in
-jobcenter,school,uni,girlfriend, places where you are lucky or unlucky,important ages. Remember that there is more than one important. For those born on the 9th, the multiple numbers 3,6 and 9 should be important, and the number 8 and 4 and its series are more fatalistic.
For example I noticed that cities where the name numbers add up to 4, the people tend to be narrow minded,square, like Nottingham in UK, or Lisbon,Portugal, Zurich, Switzerland etc

 

[Locknar]

---good astrologer--tells your personality in detail and possibly the kind of situations youll get in.
judging astrology before understanding it is pathetic in my view

what I mean by common is a chart that has most elements in balance, nothing really stands out.
Some charts have 1 element in excess and its influence more obvious, and he person normally agrees with what I say.
With common charts the client may find the reading vague.[snip]

Idunno – Which is it? Either astrology provides “your personality in detail” is it “nothing really stands out”?

 

[idunno]

Idunno – Which is it? Either astrology provides “your personality in detail” is it “nothing really stands out”?

it should,. but imagine you have 3 or 4 colors(elements) in your chart. Instead of one final color you get a shade of red or blue etc. Not so clear, so one has to be very experience,which im not , to interpret this chart. But one or 2 elements only, standing out, like some of the people in dr kittens test, it becomes easier.

 

[Locknar]

Idunno - You are double-speaking; ie. astrology provides personality detail, except when it doesn’t ( to paraphrase).

 

[drkitten]

Idunno - You are double-speaking; ie. astrology provides personality detail, except when it doesn’t ( to paraphrase).

That's not necessarily a problem. Antibiotics work except when they don't (i.e, to treat viral infections). If doctors didn't know about the differences between viruses and bacteria, that wouldn't make antibiotics ineffective in general. That sort of thing happens on a reasonably routine basis -- DRiP infections can't be treated by antibacterials, and it was only when we started looking at the DNA that we realized that it's because DRiPs aren't bacteria.

 

[Tricky]

That's not necessarily a problem. Antibiotics work except when they don't (i.e, to treat viral infections). If doctors didn't know about the differences between viruses and bacteria, that wouldn't make antibiotics ineffective in general. That sort of thing happens on a reasonably routine basis -- DRiP infections can't be treated by antibacterials, and it was only when we started looking at the DNA that we realized that it's because DRiPs aren't bacteria.

Yep, except the claim isn't that "antibotics cure ailments", it is that "antibotics cure specific ailments". They're fairly ineffective at treating decapitation too.

It appears, though, that idunno is making a more general claim, that astrology/numerology can tell something about anyone, even if it is not much. Such a claim can be tested statistically even if the effect is minor.

Are you back now? We're all waiting with bated breath.

 

[Locknar]

drkitten - I'd argue you are mixing "apples and oranges".

He was very clear in stating astrology “tells your personality in detail”…there was no qualifying of that, no “exceptions” stated. Kieran’s question (ref post #350) is valid, and idunno’s answer seems much more the “woo woo” way out.

In the end, you have a test…based on someone who claims extensive knowledge in astrology, but admittedly is not a very experienced astrologer, testing something that provides detail in terms of personality (the initial claim), except of course when it doesn’t (the current claim).

The time to bring up “shades of grey”, such as:

it should,. but imagine you have 3 or 4 colors(elements) in your chart. Instead of one final color you get a shade of red or blue etc. Not so clear, so one has to be very experience,which im not , to interpret this chart. But one or 2 elements only, standing out, like some of the people in dr kittens test, it becomes easier.

was BEFORE any type of experiment, not well after the fact.

 

[drkitten]

Yep, except the claim isn't that "antibotics cure ailments", it is that "antibotics cure specific ailments". They're fairly ineffective at treating decapitation too.

Exactly. But you need a fairly sophisticated medical system in order to distinguish between the ailments that are treatable and the ailments that aren't (I admit that decapitation is pretty easy to tell from a viral infection, but I remind you of the second season of Blackadder. "Ointment! That's what you need when your head's been cut off!"). The first step to determining what personalities astrology is effective on is to establish whether there are any such personalities, and we don't know that until we've run the tests...

Are you back now? We're all waiting with bated breath.

Yup, I'm back, and have sent all seven profiles to all seven participants. Looking at the profiles (informally), it looks like a classic Forer effect dataset (I think five of the seven are "talented" or "very talented"). I will post the profiles later for general information, when I have responses from the group.

If I missed or misrouted anything, please let me know.