Trussbolt failiures and flame cutters

Max Photon said:
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DGM,

Here is the link to the video showing the fire truck about to drive through molten iron.

WTC_Explosives (go to T=5:03)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-0ZIrAfCI0

I will add the link to my web page. (Thanks.)


By the way, right before the fire truck clip, look at the anomalous melted vehicles.

What caused that?

MAX-MIHOP explains the melted cars effortlessly.

The cars melted because a layer of hot iron-laden dust settled on the cars. (The iron is left over from thermite reactions.)

The dust had a lot of concrete and fire protection material - both insulators.

Also, the rubber tires were insulators.

The vehicles became heat traps, covered with insulating blankets.

The heat transfer from the hot dust blanket melted the vehicles.


What is the JREF pat explanation for the many, many melted vehicles?

I am VERY interested.

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Monza,

You wrote:

Is your hypothesis that the yield strength of the metal was temporarily reduced by increasing its temperature?

That is, the support beams were heated immediately prior to the collapse by use of incendiary devices.


Or are you stating that the mechanical properties of the support beams were permanently weakened by means of changing its grain structure through a heat process (such as annealing) so that it could be as ductile or brittle as desired?


The MAX-MIHOP answer is both:

- The yield strength of the metal was temporarily reduced by increasing its temperature.

- The mechanical properties of the support beams were permanently weakened.


Some steel connections and splices were permanently weakened well before collapse - probably right at and soon after the jet's impact.

To see evidence of this early weakening, please visit my site (link in my signature), and see the post:

Analysis of the Video: 2nd Hit - North Face Cropped

In the first sequence, watch the flashes in the left tower (WTC2) along the left (NE) edge, right where the exit explosion is going to occur.

Those are initiation flashes of shock-tube networks. (More on shock-tube below.)


In contrast, using delays, some of the thermite was ignited very close to collapse initiation, so the steel was still hot.



You asked: HOW was the thermite ignited?

Shock-tube was used to link and ignite the thermite.

(There is probably an intermediate step between the lit shock-tube, and the lit thermite.)

By the way, shock-tube contains high-explosives!

Please pay attention - Max Photon is claiming that one can see not only burning incendiaries in the WTCs, but also firing HIGH-EXPLOSIVES.

To repeat:

If one merely opens his or her eyes, one can see in the WTCs:

- FIRING HIGH-EXPLOSIVES
- FIRING SUPPLEMENTARY CATALYSTS (probably thermite)


Now please see at my site the post right next to it, called:

Analysis of the Video: WTC Thermite Video (Stabilized)

In that post, I discuss shock-tube, and the fact that FIRING shock tube can be seen in a number of different videos, on the north face of WTC, linking the synthetic fires.

By the way, frame-by-frame analysis of the firing shock-tube shows the shock-tube intersecting column and spandrel splices, exactly where MAX-MIHOP predicts.

(e^n, are you listening? MAX-MIHOP does make predictions! Predictions generated by MAX-MIHOP led me to find the video: 2nd Hit - North Face Cropped. I predicted that demolition planners would try to hide demolition work at peak emotional moments. I KNEW to look for video like that, and I found it! That is serious predictive power!)


Please research those links, and then if you have more questions - which I hope you do - please feel free to ask them.


Thank you both for your participation.

Max

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Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Yawn. Much silly gibberish.

What's the MAX-MIHOP response to my demonstration of the mathematical IMPOSSIBILITY of your imaginary conspiracy?

Oh, I forgot--you have no response.
 
Originally Posted by Max Photon
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DGM,

Here is the link to the video showing the fire truck about to drive through molten iron.
Click to expand...

Sorry Max:

It's still sunlight.

You failed to convince me, my 9 year old son and my 8 year old niece. They want to know why your trying to trick people.
 
DGM said:
Sorry Max:

It's still sunlight.

You failed to convince me, my 9 year old son and my 8 year old niece. They want to know why your trying to trick people.
Click to expand...

And whats with the MAX-MIHOP? Max Made It Happen On Purpose?
This is turning out to be a very elaborate scenario you're making here Max.
Did You do it?

I KNEW to look for video like that, and I found it! That is serious predictive power!
Click to expand...
 
Max Photon said:
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.

There were many low probability events on 9/11:

- The failure of the military - even around HQ.
- The collapse of WTC 7
- The many anomalies NIST admits to and describes in NCSTAR 1-5A/9/C
- The many melted cars
- The shock-tube flashes in WTC2
- FEMA high-resolution photos showing many, many examples of catalyzed effects on steel members. (Remember, NIST sampled only a tiny portion of the steel.)
- etc, etc, etc.


The joint probability of low probability events - especially when there are multiple - vanishes to zero.
Click to expand...
argument from incredulity noted
Obviously, I can not prove that is aluminum oxide.

I only speak to fit - fit of all the evidence.
Click to expand...

No it fits your fantasy. not reality.
Max Photon said:
---

DGM,

Here is the link to the video showing the fire truck about to drive through molten iron.

WTC_Explosives (go to T=5:03)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-0ZIrAfCI0

I will add the link to my web page. (Thanks.)
Click to expand...

so your saying that it is molten steel streaming through our bedroom window every morning and not sunlight? only a fool would surmise that the fire truck is driving through molten steel and not sunlight. Heres a clue. one Is hotter that the other and would create clouds of vapor and smoke when coming in contact with asphalt. Also you don't see too many examples of molten steel puddles mimicking the outline of a skyline shadow behind them.
 
Max Photon said:
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The vehicles became heat traps, covered with insulating blankets.

The heat transfer from the hot dust blanket melted the vehicles.



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Click to expand...

If that was to be true, then why didn't any surrounding buildings feel this effect as well? Also if this pyroclastic cloud or thermal dust blanket really did exist why weren't there more victims, especially the ones that were filmed and photographed in this blanket?

What about the victim that was in the cab of the fire truck, who radioed the dispatcher for help? Wouldn't he have also died?
 
The joint probability of low probability events - especially when there are multiple - vanishes to zero.
Click to expand...

Well, that certainly explains what happened to me today.

I was trying to explain probability to my kids, and I started to deal a deck of cards from the top to the bottom.

Part of the way through, the cards just froze up, and I couldn't deal any more.

I now realize that the resulting sequence of 52 cards would have been so improbable, that there is no way it could have happened.

Offhand, I would doubt that most truthers are creationists, but they seem to drink from the same well.

I'm going to try the card trick again tomorrow. I have it on good authority that out of all of the "one in a million" events that could occur tomorrow, about 999,999 of them won't happen.
 
Max Photon says silly-sampled steel sends suspicious signals

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e^n said:
This thread is a little low on content but I just wanted to add that from NISTs recovered perimeter panel sections, the major mode of failure for truss seats below the impact zone was shear failure. At the impact level the trusses often broke the bolt and walked off the seat.
Click to expand...


I forget...what percentage of steel members did NIST sample?

Max

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The literature reports that relevant experts, civil engineers and metallurgists were at the points were the beams were delivered to and they culled out every piece that they thought was needed for the analysis. I recall some names being mentioned in the press at the time but I'd have to dig for a name. NIST probably knows the names of many of these people.

The mall stull was carried to the landfill where it was examimed in detail by FBI, mostly looking for human remains, jewelry, etc.
 
Since this is my first day here, I'll expect a jref beating for throwing this out there.

NIST reported that no core column had evidence of reaching a temp exceeding 250C.

With or without fireproofing, the cores seemed never to have heated sufficiently for "global failure."

Commence rhetorical beatdown, firguratively speaking, of course.
 
RedIbis said:
Since this is my first day here, I'll expect a jref beating for throwing this out there.

NIST reported that no core column had evidence of reaching a temp exceeding 250C.

With or without fireproofing, the cores seemed never to have heated sufficiently for "global failure."

Commence rhetorical beatdown, firguratively speaking, of course.
Click to expand...
Too bad there was global collapse, no bombs, and thus your post is pure bs.
 
The test to which you are referring estimates the maximum temperature reached by the decomposition of paint on the steel. At about 250 degrees, the paint burns off. So that particular test isn't of much use in the hottest part of the fire. However, knowing the cooler temperatures around the perimeter of the fire can help by allowing you to calibrate a model of the fire.
NIST estimated temperatures around 1000 degrees C near the ceilings, which is where the trusses were.

The columns themselves would not need to lose strength from heating. They failed by being pulled "out of column" by the attached trusses sagging.

An observation: this is elderly, elderly question material you're working with here. Why do questions seem to propagate so quickly through Twoofer-space, while the supplied answers seem hardly to travel at all?
 
RedIbis said:
Since this is my first day here, I'll expect a jref beating for throwing this out there.

NIST reported that no core column had evidence of reaching a temp exceeding 250C.

With or without fireproofing, the cores seemed never to have heated sufficiently for "global failure."

Commence rhetorical beatdown, firguratively speaking, of course.
Click to expand...

Since I am fresh to this forum, I'll just respond with the facts.
The core does not carry the entire load of the building. It shares the duty with the perimeter columns. If either fail, the whole system fails - catastrophically. The perimeter columns failed because their lateral support was compromised by the buckling floor beams and the impact damage.
 
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