The 9/11 Conspiracy Facts

Circular logic:

It's a cover up because he's the only one talking about it? Then how would we know if it was NOT a cover up? How could we find out if Scott's story was wrong?
You asked what evidence there was for a cover up. I stated that along with the evident fact of Scott's statement, which is now known around the world, there has not been one public action/comment on it, affirmative denial or other by FT, which is astonishing. That is evidence for a cover up, as you will know if you can distinguish between evidence and proof.
 
Note the following Forbes quote in the 2nd link you provided:



It's 18 months later, and guess how many others have acknowledged the power-down in any fashion? Hint: The number rhymes with hero.

Though any additional analysis of his claims is entirely unneccessary, here's one final point. NYC is extremely left-leaning. 80-90% are democrats, and quite a large percentage of these (I would guess a majority, based on my experience) are RABID in their hatred for George Bush. They absolutely despise him, are convinced he is an incarnation of Satan and darn-near foam at the mouth when his name is mentioned.

It is inconceivable that all of the thousands of potential corroborators in WTC2, many of whom undoubtedly fit this profile, would choose to keep quiet under any circumstances.
Except they would be indicting themselves with their employers, who is not Bush.

Pretty simple, no?
 
You need to let go. I have pointed to the fact that his arguments are not falsifiable, hence worthless, in the whole PNAC discussion,

Sorry, I didn't realize this point had already been made. I haven't responded to mjd directly for some time and mainly check back into this thread only out of morbid curiosity.

The purpose of my post was mainly to crystalize in my own mind exactly how the rhetoric employed by our friend worked, to lay it bare and expose it for what it really was. I thought my conclusions might be of interest to others, but I was apparently just being redundant.

I'll stay out of this thread from now on.
 
1) There are now millions of people all over the world who believe that FT have a role in the 911 cover up. This is not good pr

Really? I can't say I've ever heard that one. Is it a truther claim? Could you link it? I like a good laugh.
 
Here is the basic problem with mjd's approach (and I feel free to refer to him in the third person, since he apparently only reads posts that are a direct response to his):

It is the laziest sort of fallacious reasoning to simply claim that one's viewpoint is obvious, as mjd implies with his sniping rhetoric ("err", "duh", "oh, dear", etc.). That is because his claims fail the acid test of obviousness, which is falsifiability.

A claim such as "the sun will always rise in the morning" is obvious not because "everybody knows it", but because if there were ever a time that the sun DIDN'T rise, we would know it. All it takes is a single instance of the sun failing to rise, in all recorded history, to prove the statement wrong, and it hasn't happened (except in the polar regions, of course. Don't overthink this! ;))

If a claim is falsifiable, then a world in which it is true looks very different from a world in which it is false. This is not true of conspiracy theories, or any of the arguments put forth by mjd. He is careful to choose topics of discussion that lead to endless speculation, because there is no clear way to prove them false. This doesn't, as he appears to believe, mean that they are true. It simply means that thinking people prefer not to waste time speculating on them.

I have called mjd a coward several times, and I stand by that assertion. He is a coward because he never has to take responsibility for his statements, which are unfalsifiable, and he never has to actually DO anything himself, just complain that others aren't stepping up and doing it for him. His behavior is classically passive aggressive.

I think mjd should stop wasting his time trying to convince people that aren't easily swayed by shallow rhetoric, and take his struggle to a more gullible crowd. There, he can be a god among trolls, instead of...well, you get the idea.
How confused you are.

We will look at 2 scenarios- one that offers the possiblilty of falsifiabliltiy, and one which doesnt.

#1- A document illustrates the propitiousness of a new PH to policy, This can be falsified by pointing to the content of the document, the tone and environs of any PH comment, and coming to defendable conclusions. That is something that is falsifiable.

#2- The government was not criminally negligent in failing to prevent 911. This is something that is unfalsifiable, since anyone with a particular axe to grind, inclination towards triviality, and disregard for common sense, will always be able to fish for one more straw.

Both instances have plenty of resonance on this thread; both instances should make your comment look peculiar.
 
Sure. One of my favorite flicks of all time, A Clockwork Orange.

If you already went to a "uni" as you say, consider suing for your tuition back. You are completly incompetent, intellectually speaking.

Just thought I'd point that out. Back on ignore you go.
A perfect example of satirical humour that it not "laugh out loud" humour, as I explained to you before. Maybe your best contribution yet, well done!
 
You need to let go. I have pointed to the fact that his arguments are not falsifiable, hence worthless, in the whole PNAC discussion, but all you get in return are snide comments, condescending attitude and patronizing answers, of someone who has obviously an axt to grind with the whole world, which leads to the assumption that he is deeply unhappy, possibly because of former rejection or failure (been there myself, so I speak out of experience).

The only worry I have is that he teaches his understanding of logics, facts and evidence to children. On the upside, there is a chance that his heavy overuse of fancy terms such as "propitious" will make the adolescents abandon them once and for all out of their future vocabulary.
How disappointing. I explained to you your problem with "falsifiability" at great length, and dealt with all your issues. You stay silent, and then choose to come back with some below the belt tripe, for which you are attempting to criticise me. With your your hypocrisy, disregard for common sense and facts, you are a good addition to the fantasist menagerie.
 
not everybody and in some cases only if he continues to claim the total power down when it has bee shown he is incorrect

the overall tenor has been pretty homogeneous, please dont waste time on that

he thinks he has evidence that his company are covering up the murders of 3000 poeople soem of whom he worked with, why should ant law abiding citizen not say anything to the authorities? one good reason will do me? i'm sure others will come forward if so?

1. To take a case to court implicating a multi billion corp and the gov in the cover up of 911 is not something many people would be willing to do
2. YOu may, but people are different.

again, pelase dont make me have to tell u this again

what official accounts has it been excluded from, you pull a rabbit out of the hat again, who has denied it officially? you brought this up

I know I did, as I said, he told me, and I cant remember. This is just my word, and you may treat it is you wish. Come to the next 911 London event, and you can maybe find out more from people who know him better than i

as for saying ok to that stament about the 3000 deaths that just shows what a disgusting human being you really are,

what an odd thing to say. what an odd person you must be. Where have I condoned covering up 3000 deaths?

what would you do if it were you and what do you think Scott should do? potentially lose your joob or avenge the death of your colleagues? the choice is easy, you brush it off with an ok, him and I are indeed different as he would be different from the huge majority of people who would give up a job to avenge the deaths of so many, i would never want to be as low a human being as it seems he is

I have never intimated as to what i would do; I am simply saying that people are different, not controversial outside fascist circles

if it is evidence or a hint or fact it matters little, he thinks it was definite, he should say something, this was another attempt to wriggle out

as above

i have no idea if they are telling him to shut up he could be lying, why should i believe him when he has changed his story a few times and is definately mistaken about what he originally claimed

Oh please, changed his story,.... show me where please

why should they corroborate anything if it is meaningless? he is the one making something of it, not FT, as far as i am aware it has not been shown that he has blamed them or that they even know that he suspects them

He has implied that they were involved, at least passively and in the cover up. This is pretty huge. They have taken no steps to deny, or even reprimand him. I dont believe you, or anyone else got round to offering a sensible explanation of this

from start to finish you have made a complete and utter balls of this thread, you contradict yourself constantly,

example?

you are snide and rude,

acceptable behaviour for an OTer to a CTer tho?

you add and change things to try to suit your agenda when it is not going your way,

what the hell are you talking about? Give me one example?

you post stuff with absolutely zero proof and expect us to agree with you and say Ok you are right and we are all wrong,

again, another example

your debating skills are sadly lacking however much fancy words and bluff and bluster you use, you treat the deaths of 3000 people with contempt,

What an odd person you are! What the hell are you talking about? I go onto the streets protesting at the deaths of these people, what the hell do you do, other than be complicit in your stupidity? Show me where I have been contemptuous of their deaths
 
I guess I missed that post.
Nope, but I tried. I really tried. I guess mj hasn't the courage to move on to that. So he uses the Scott Forbes issue to try to distract from that fact. :whistling
Lol, ridiculous. He was mentioned tangentially, and since I had happened to have met him and spoken at length about his experience, I thought it would be a good opportunity on this board to see how far the fantasist rabbit hole went. I do not use this as part of my argument in defending the Truth Movement, as it does to a large degree on this board anyway, rely on my word; nonetheless there are plenty of facts that even a menagerie of fantasists cannot answer sensibly. It has been pretty astonishing; I am happy to move back to the original topic whenever anyone chooses, or as you like.
 
Sorry, I didn't realize this point had already been made. I haven't responded to mjd directly for some time and mainly check back into this thread only out of morbid curiosity.

The purpose of my post was mainly to crystalize in my own mind exactly how the rhetoric employed by our friend worked, to lay it bare and expose it for what it really was. I thought my conclusions might be of interest to others, but I was apparently just being redundant.

I'll stay out of this thread from now on.
That's alright Sherlock, you were indeed just being redundant. Never mind.
 
Really? I can't say I've ever heard that one. Is it a truther claim? Could you link it? I like a good laugh.
Most people could work it out for themselves, but dont worry, I'll help you. His story is a fairly well known one in the Truth movement; and the movement is known to 10's of millions of people worldwide. Can you take it from here?
 
Most people could work it out for themselves, but dont worry, I'll help you. His story is a fairly well known one in the Truth movement; and the movement is known to 10's of millions of people worldwide. Can you take it from here?
Yes I can. But that still doesn't explain how FT fits into it.

Are his parents suspect too. After all they raised him. He never implicated FT, only you do.
 
Sorry. scott forbes is lying

it would not be necessary to power down for a cable upgrade. Parallel cabling is run and then switched over hot. The old cabling is cut off from the circuit and either abandoned in place or stripped out. It is done all the time in the construction industry.
 
Oh boy... except my 2nd statement was made with the contingency that he was lying.

Wrong again:
If an employee of such a company were to come out and imply that the gov were behind 911, they would be out on their ass, or at the least, in deep schtick, no question. He has never been either. Explain.

Your statement makes no requirement of the implication being truth or fiction. Perhaps you should revise it.

Why has he not been fired for implicatin his employer in a 911 cover up?

Quite simple:
If he would be fired for implicating his employer, and he has not been fired, then he has not implicated his employer.

You asked what evidence there was for a cover up. I stated that along with the evident fact of Scott's statement, which is now known around the world, there has not been one public action/comment on it, affirmative denial or other by FT, which is astonishing. That is evidence for a cover up, as you will know if you can distinguish between evidence and proof.

Lack of public action/comment is also evidence that Scott's statements are false or incorrect, which leads us to the following question:

How can we tell the difference between
a
) Scotts statements being incorrect, and
b
) a cover up taking place?
How would they look different?
 
1) There are now millions of people all over the world who believe that FT have a role in the 911 cover up. This is not good pr
Wrong. So far, only 1 person has been shown to believe this. You. Please provide evidence of the so-called "millions."
2) I am self employed
Good thing or you'd be sacked for your statements about 9/11.

Most people could work it out for themselves, but dont worry, I'll help you. His story is a fairly well known one in the Truth movement; and the movement is known to 10's of millions of people worldwide. Can you take it from here?
No, most people, even most truthers, require some type of evidence. We require real evidence. You have yet to provide any. Show me one site that list FT as a co-conspirator. Remember, the "Truth Movement" believes that both towers were completely powered down for 36 hours. So, FT doesn't figure into any part of the conspiracy, even from the "Truth Movement" pov. So far, you're FT cover-up and link to the conspiracy has been shown to be a fantasy. Which makes you the fantasist.
nonetheless there are plenty of facts that even a menagerie of fantasists cannot answer sensibly
I guess this applies to you then.
I am happy to move back to the original topic whenever anyone chooses, or as you like.
I'm game if you are.
 
it would not be necessary to power down for a cable upgrade. Parallel cabling is run and then switched over hot. The old cabling is cut off from the circuit and either abandoned in place or stripped out. It is done all the time in the construction industry.
True in most cases. There is a point in time where too many cables have been run and abandoned. Then the power down would be justified. In the company I work for, we switched from dumb terminals to networked PCs 8 years ago. We are just now removing some of the old serial cables because it's become next to impossible to run new network cable. So it will all come down to what was on the contract.

ETA: If the conduits are clogged with cables or inaccessible, they could use the original cable to pull the new cable through. I'm sure you've done that as well.
 
Last edited:
Except they would be indicting themselves with their employers, who is not Bush.

Pretty simple, no?
Simple, yes, true, not even close. All of the surviving employees of FT would know by now that Scott has not been sacked for making his comments. Therefore, there is no reason that they would be afraid of being sacked. What about the employees that no longer work for FT and are not employed by anybody else that has any connection to the WTC? There would be no implication of complicity of their employer there. So, your claim that 100% of everyone else, besides Scott, have not come out to talk about the power down for fear of recriminations is totally baseless. Now I'm starting to wonder if you actually met Scott at all. Why don't you ask him to post on here so he can tell us himself what you don't remember. You did get his email since you had dinner with him and got to know him? That would clear this whole thing up.

Now can we finally move on to WTC 7?
 
A perfect example of satirical humour that it not "laugh out loud" humour, as I explained to you before. Maybe your best contribution yet, well done!

There are humorous moments in Clockwork, just as there are humorous moments in The Deer Hunter.

Only 15 year olds with a predilection for torturing puppies would regard either film as a humorous undertaking.

You are apparently quite sick.
 
Yes I can. But that still doesn't explain how FT fits into it.

Are his parents suspect too. After all they raised him. He never implicated FT, only you do.
???

I know I have said this many times before, but I'll say it again- I dont expect to have to say this again (*sigh*)

The fact that implicit in his comment is the fact that FT are covering up details of a gov plot to kill 3000 US is indicting of FT.

Either contest why you think this to be wrong, instead of indulging in the standard kook pattern of parotting your previous comments, or you may wanna take a break for ur tired little head
 
it would not be necessary to power down for a cable upgrade. Parallel cabling is run and then switched over hot. The old cabling is cut off from the circuit and either abandoned in place or stripped out. It is done all the time in the construction industry.
Lol, right, execpt that in Scotts story, he is not implying that these guys were necessarily "cabling". If that were the story, it wouldnt be much of a story, woud it now?
 

Back
Top Bottom