UFO's and the Government

Dog Town said:
You do realise how LUCKY we have been? Surviving meteors etc...while advacing! I think radio waves of long forgotten civilizations would be seen! They would surely harness the easiest right, at some point ?Yet nada! What's wrong with us being, the most advaced planet for billions of galaxies! Delusions, or fantasy?
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How much of those waves could have been blocked by planetary bodies?
How long will it be before our radio waves reach our nearest star that is over 4 light years away, even if they are not blocked or deflected?

There are a lot of factors to consider.
What is wrong with us being the most advanced? Nothing is wrong with it.
But if the evidence to the contrary is indeed true, then it would prove we are not the most advanced. Us being or not being the most advanced does not matter to me one way or another.
 
Devil's Advocate said:
How much of those waves could have been blocked by planetary bodies?
How long will it be before our radio waves reach our nearest star that is over 4 light years away, even if they are not blocked or deflected?

There are a lot of factors to consider.
What is wrong with us being the most advanced? Nothing is wrong with it.
But if the evidence to the contrary is indeed true, then it would prove we are not the most advanced. Us being or not being the most advanced does not matter to me one way or another.
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Assuming advanced would be atleast thousands if not millions of years in an advanced state, I think we might have a clue.But hey...enjoy!
 
Dog Town said:
Assuming advanced would be atleast thousands if not millions of years in an advanced state, I think we might have a clue.But hey...enjoy!
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Of course, no matter what someone's opinion is, that is all you can say it is. Opinion. That is why you look and see if there is evidence.
So, with that in mind, what do you say with regard to classified documents that were released through the FOIA that say alien craft have been here?
Is it to be disregarded?
If so, why is it disregarded?
 
Devil's Advocate said:
...<snip>
So, with that in mind, what do you say with regard to classified documents that were released through the FOIA that say alien craft have been here?
Is it to be disregarded?
If so, why is it disregarded?
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I may not have read everything, but can I see these "classified doc's" that are released, you speak of?
 
Not having read through all the UFO threads here, has anyone commented on the similarities between Alian/MIB rectal probes etc, and the medieval Incubus and Sucubus.

Seems like the same psychological effect, altered according to the peoples' ideas.

I saw an (in parts) fairly sober discussion about UFOs, and it mentioned that the CIA tried to use UFOs as a part of a cover story for their reconnaissance balloon operations. Ironically, almost the opposite of the theory proposed by "believers" in Roswell.

A small proportion of UFO sightings could come from similar projects, (did "wedges" become popular before or after the B2 was made public?)

Some small support for this idea is the fact that since the 1950's some UFO sightings seemed to have a performance that was just a few years ahead of the then current military aircraft, and the margin stayed the same, which would have been surprising (to say the least) for interstellar-capable alians, as this would mean that their atmospheric craft were developing at the same rate as the earthlings.

Anyway, the alians don't just perform rectal probes, they also make crop circles, unless you subscribe to the insane theory that crop circles have more to do with cider drinking...
 
Dog Town said:
Yet I can't find any copies of these claims in the real world! Secret released doc's my bumm!
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My point for referencing the video was for the case(s) involved so if you wanted to make a FOIA request on each case, you would have information on the cases you would be making a FOIA for.

Thought I find it all interesting, I have made no request.
Why? Because it does not really matter to me if alien life visits here or not.
If they do, I will not be allowed to study the craft anyway, so it does not matter to me.
I have theories on how such a craft could work, but if I could not examine the craft, then I would never know if the theories held up.
 
I think it's important to distinguish between "UFOs" and "Alien Encounters".

UFO's are a very real phenomenon. After all, a UFO is simply an airbourne object that is not identified. Even putting aside the extremely mundane, there are still documented accounts of genuine mysterious flying "things". This doesn't mean they are extra terrestrial or supernatural, just that we genuinely cannot explain them.

As an example I would offer the December 1978 incident over the South Island of New Zealand. What was it that made the light? Well, we don't know. That's why it's a "UFO" sighting. Perhaps the official government investigation into the event would reveal the answer, but the report was labeled "Top Secret" and has never been released. Certainly the "official explanation" is lacking - if for no other reason than because it offers up multiple explanations - none of which really fit the accounts.

Of course, strange unexplained lights in the sky at night are a very far cry from gray-skinned aliens in flying saucers with rectal probes and ray guns. I think it's important to separate them.

As to why aliens would come here and not announce themselves? Ack! One must not violate the prime directive!

-Gumboot
 
jimbob said:
A small proportion of UFO sightings could come from similar projects, (did "wedges" become popular before or after the B2 was made public?)

Some small support for this idea is the fact that since the 1950's some UFO sightings seemed to have a performance that was just a few years ahead of the then current military aircraft, and the margin stayed the same, which would have been surprising (to say the least) for interstellar-capable alians, as this would mean that their atmospheric craft were developing at the same rate as the earthlings.
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I think this is probably one of the most likely explanations for many sightings. The government would, of course, been happy for people to attribute test flights of their advanced aircraft to aliens. A good example is the Lockheed SR-71A Blackbird. This aircraft was designed, built, test flown, and put into operational service before the public ever knew about. There were a number of crashes during its development, which were obviously all very hush hush and closely guarded.

While many recent military aircraft projects such quite widely publicised, such as the F-22 and F-35, it seems likely that there are other "black" aircraft projects, such as the rumoured "Aurora" aircraft which supposedly was intended to replace the SR-71.

If we consider the unique shape of the B-2 Spirit, and the physics defying performance of the F-22, it's easy to see how someone might have confused such aircraft with alien space craft.

-Gumboot
 
gumboot said:
I think this is probably one of the most likely explanations for many sightings. The government would, of course, been happy for people to attribute test flights of their advanced aircraft to aliens. A good example is the Lockheed SR-71A Blackbird. This aircraft was designed, built, test flown, and put into operational service before the public ever knew about. There were a number of crashes during its development, which were obviously all very hush hush and closely guarded.

While many recent military aircraft projects such quite widely publicised, such as the F-22 and F-35, it seems likely that there are other "black" aircraft projects, such as the rumoured "Aurora" aircraft which supposedly was intended to replace the SR-71.

If we consider the unique shape of the B-2 Spirit, and the physics defying performance of the F-22, it's easy to see how someone might have confused such aircraft with alien space craft.

-Gumboot
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I agree. That is why I made it clear that I did not know the origin of the ones I have seen.
They defy only what I know exist.
I am unaware of any craft we have that can fly or hover and remain completely silent. That of course does not make it alien.
 
I am unaware of any craft we have that can fly or hover and remain completely silent. That of course does not make it alien.
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Airship?
 
Great minds obviously think alike...

It's 'cause I'm psychic...
 
Devil's Advocate said:
How much of those waves could have been blocked by planetary bodies?
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Vanishingly small, for all intents zero. Planetary bodies block almost none of the radiation we receive from space. The universe is very large; in comparison the space taken up by planetary bodies is utterly insignificant.

How long will it be before our radio waves reach our nearest star that is over 4 light years away, even if they are not blocked or deflected?
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Since radio waves travel at the speed of light, then by definition this took four years. Thus, we were detectable from Alpha Centauri sometime by the late 1920's. Our radio "shell" is approximately 85 years in radius at the moment, and expanding at the speed of light. A more advanced civilization, say on 1000 years ahead of us technologically, should in theory be detectable via radio waves from 1000 light years away.

What is wrong with us being the most advanced? Nothing is wrong with it. But if the evidence to the contrary is indeed true, then it would prove we are not the most advanced. Us being or not being the most advanced does not matter to me one way or another.
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Key word: evidence. None exists.
 
Undesired Walrus said:
Of course I'd like to believe that there are aliens out there who can show us humans we are really not that great, but you have to wonder why they simply shove a stick up our arse and then are on their way.

Simply speculation with no evidence to back up, but I really have a hard time believing that the US would cover up proof of aliens.

Interesting point: The first guy who saw a UFO was in a plane and said it 'skipped across the sky like a saucer'. Bear in mind, it wasn't a saucer shape.

But what did people start to 'see'? Saucers.

Glad we finally have a UFO thread.
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This sparked my curiousity. So I googled and Wikipediad.

The first UFO account described by Kenneth Arnold was "boomerang-shaped" flying objects that moved erratically across the sky, "like a saucer would if you skipped it across water."

Wikipedia has this picture.

Arnold_crescent_1947.jpg



This makes more sense. It's aerodynamic, not like a saucer, and it wasn't influenced by the press.

Was it an alien wanting to anally probe humans? Or maybe top secret military aircraft? Look familiar?


800px-B-2_Spirit_original.jpg


Edit To Add: This is an interesting link on German aircraft design in WWII

http://www.century-of-flight.freeola.com/new site/frames/horten frame.htm

It seems after WWII America adopted this design and eventually developped stealth technology. So it's not aliens, but Nazis that are responsible for UFOs ;)
 
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Aliens are stupid. If hovering around some areas for no freaking reason only to be spotted by a couple of people are the best they can do, then they are the biggest dolts in the galaxy.

UFO's? Come on!:rolleyes:
 
Stellafane said:
Vanishingly small, for all intents zero. Planetary bodies block almost none of the radiation we receive from space. The universe is very large; in comparison the space taken up by planetary bodies is utterly insignificant.
Since radio waves travel at the speed of light, then by definition this took four years. Thus, we were detectable from Alpha Centauri sometime by the late 1920's. Our radio "shell" is approximately 85 years in radius at the moment, and expanding at the speed of light. A more advanced civilization, say on 1000 years ahead of us technologically, should in theory be detectable via radio waves from 1000 light years away.
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Are you implying that radio waves would not reflect off planetary bodies?
The U.S. Army Signal Corps used our moon as a natural passive reflector in the mid-40's.


Reply to regarding the balloon and airships...a low flying airship can easily be heard. Neither could have followed a car at 55mph, nor could any match the speed of the craft that flew over my driveway.
 
Devil's Advocate said:
We can make a craft almost undetectable to radar now. Why is that such a hard thing to believe?
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The point wasn't that it couldn't be done, the point is why bother doing so when you then light up your craft like Las Vegas billboad for all to see?

For theoretical means, you could 'shield' a craft in plasma and it would absorb electromagnetic waves.
It would return no radio waves because they would be absorbed. Thus making the craft invisible. (But not invisible to sight).
If a craft could change or cause an energy 'shell' that operated at 300 nm, then we would not be able to see it with our eyes, because it would be in the ultra violet spectrum of light. I have not looked into that, but I've heard it is possible in theory.
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Whether or not all this could be done, it would still not mask the reality of a UFO's presence. An object of the size and speed being reported would cause atmospheric effects such as strong winds and shattering sonic booms. It would blot out background stars. It would potentially leave its fingerprints in other regions of the electromagnetic spectrum. It would leave heat signatures. Et cetera. Unless you can simply pop in and out of reality itself, there's no way to completely hide a large, speeding object in today's skies.


...Then the distance problem is not a problem in theory using hyper- dimensional quantum mechanics. Worm holes, space bending, zero point energy for fuel, etc. So with known laws of physics, a space craft is theoretically possible.
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Depends on the theory. Remember, only some theories allow for these things, others say they're absolutely impossible. That's why today's theory may or may not be tomorrow's reality. And in any case, theory is all well and fine, but proves nothing until good 'ol evidence shows up.

As an aside, I was once on a radio show with the late J. Allan Hynek, the famous UFO researcher. (He coined the phrase "close encounter of the third kind" and actually had a bit part in the movie.) I asked him why UFO inhabitants seem so at home here in Earth. His reply surprised me a little -- he confessed that he no longer thought that UFOs were extra-terrestial! Instead, he had come to believe that they were from a parellel universe, or maybe the future. I always found it interesting that in the end, perhaps the most respected UFO researcher ever came to the conclusion that they did not come from another planet.
 
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