UFO's and the Government

Didn't you hear? They (and Tuvok!) finally got home!! Little Donnie was said to be escstatic.

(for those that don't get the reference, refer to the trivia section of the Tuvok Wikipedia Page)
 
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Anecdotes about UFOs are absolutely fascinating, and I love to hear about them. But as proof of UFO existence, they're utterly worthless without corroborating evidence. And UFOs have never, ever been able to offer any, not so much as one microscopic piece off one lousy ship. Think of it: even something as ephemeral as dreaming produces tangible evidence of its reality -- EKGs, eye movements and so on. Dreaming is the epitome of the unreal ("the stuff dreams are made of" and all that), but it can nonetheless be proven real through observable and repeatable evidence. But not UFOs for some reason.

And lest you think I doubt your veracity, please let me assure you I don't. However, eyewitness testimony, especially when viewing phenomena with which the observer is not familiar, is notoriously unreliable. I vividly recall the time a friend of mine and I were looking at a garden-variety satellite in the evening sky. "Look at it!" he exlaimed exitedly. "It's turning left! Now right! NOW IT'S STANDING STILL!! What is that thing???" But it was doing nothing of the sort. I was standing right next to him, and the satellite was simply doing what satellites do, politely moving in a straight line from horizon to horizon, at constant speed. But obviously my friend wasn't lying. As an inexperienced observer, he was just honestly misinterpreting what he saw (in this case, probably unconscious eye and head movements that made the object's flight appear erratic) and abscribing it to the satellite.

UFO reports are like that. Plenty of people seeing all kinds of odd things, but nothing -- nothing -- that you can hold in your hand. And considering all the other obstacles that would have to be overcome to accept UFOs as real (and they are myriad), we'll have to do far better than that before I consider them even a remote possibility.
 
Devil's Advocate said:
On the saucer craft, I knew it was 50 feet because that is how far I had to keep the project car I was building from the mailbox as per rules in the neighborhood.
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I don't quite see how that connects with determining, with any degree of certainty, the size and distance to an object in the sky, unless that object came down to a few feet off the ground and obscured whatever was past the 50 foot mark.

Devil's Advocate said:
I could hit either craft with a rock easily.
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Again, how can you be sure? What criteria allow you to be so certain?

Devil's Advocate said:
A way to get an idea of height is the use of a telephone pole.
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That doesn't help with distance though, unless it is in front of the telephone pole. The actual height of the object will depend greatly on how far away it is.

Devil's Advocate said:
You think it was a missile? I'm not saying you're wrong, but it would have had to have been a very tough missile to impact the ground that hard and bounce off with no apparent damage.
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Depends on the angle at which it contacts the ground. The first impact is at a lower angle at which it could bounce off the ground. There isn't all that much to break in a simple, solid-fuelled rocket; as long as the engine puts out enough thrust to get it airborne it'll keep going.

Devil's Advocate said:
Plus, I cannot figure out why a missile would glow like that.
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That's the exhaust flame. The missile body itself is either too small or didn't contrast enough against the background to show up easily given the low resolution of the video.
 
In the 40's and 50's the spacecraft were saucers and the aliens were green and reptilian. Move onto the 80's to present and the spacecraft become cigar shaped and the aliens are now gray and small with big eyes.

Whatever happened to the saucers with reptiles in them? Did the gray aliens in cigars wipe them out? Did they arrange some treaty where the gray ones now have claim to research and terrorize Earth?

And talk about a change in temperament. The old reptiles just wanted to say "hi" and sometimes take humans to Venus (at least until is was revealed to be uninhabitable) or Mars (until it too was revealed to be uninhabitable) and interbreed with promises of sharing knowledge. The new gray ones are viscous and sadistic; abducting, probing orifices and wiping out memories on helpless victims. All of it for no discernible logical reason either.

I want the reptiles in saucers back! Who's with me on this?
 
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By the way, I think it's hilarious that people think this is a UFO crash.

I mean listen to the audio. That should have been the first clue as to what it really is.
 
Serious question here:

If a UFO did show up -absolutely proving the existenceo of extraterrestrial life forms, what would we do? What would the government do?

Would we exploit them militarily as potential "threats" and use them as an excuse to double our defenses and build nastier weapons than what we have?

If we established we could, would we slaughter them like the American Indians and take away their lands? Would we send in our social workers and Red Cross overseers and start telling them what they're doing wrong? Would we give them the "good news" of our constitution and the American dream? Would we let them do similiar to us?

Honestly, I think if there's intelligent life out there, it would be smart to stay hidden. :(
 
In the 40's and 50's the spacecraft were saucers and the aliens were green and reptilian. Move onto the 80's to present and the spacecraft become cigar shaped and the aliens are now gray and small with big eyes.

Whatever happened to the saucers with reptiles in them? Did the gray aliens in cigars wipe them out? Did they arrange some treaty where the gray ones now have claim to research and terrorize Earth?
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Actually the prefered shape of craft was always a 50/50 split between saucer and cigar, with a few exotics thrown in. As for the demise of little green reptilan men and the rise of the Greys. 6 Words

Close Encounters Of The Third Kind
 
MG1962 said:
Actually the prefered shape of craft was always a 50/50 split between saucer and cigar, with a few exotics thrown in. As for the demise of little green reptilan men and the rise of the Greys. 6 Words

Close Encounters Of The Third Kind
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That's essentially my point. UFO and alien encounter descriptions have changed over time to reflect a social zeitgeist. What appeared in comics, movies and TV is what people described and as the fictional depictions changed so too, not coincidentally, did the descriptions of the so called "real encounters."
 
That's essentially my point. UFO and alien encounter descriptions have changed over time to reflect a social zeitgeist. What appeared in comics, movies and TV is what people described and as the fictional depictions changed so too, not coincidentally, did the descriptions of the so called "real encounters."
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If you research backwards you find it interesting how UFOs have always remained one level of technology above us. Through the 1880s onwards. The majority of UFO sightings where very zeppelin in appearence. When we got zeppelins, they got faster ones, then other heavier than air devices

Personally i have always thought UFOs to be the modern man's witches and occult happenings
 
Travis said:
In the 40's and 50's the spacecraft were saucers and the aliens were green and reptilian. Move onto the 80's to present and the spacecraft become cigar shaped and the aliens are now gray and small with big eyes.

Whatever happened to the saucers with reptiles in them? Did the gray aliens in cigars wipe them out? Did they arrange some treaty where the gray ones now have claim to research and terrorize Earth?
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Oh there's plenty of woo on that subject. I can't think of any specific books, but I've heard endless parades of guests on Coast to Coast who know the whole thing. There is quite a dynamic relationship between them all as I remember ;)
 
Triterope said:
I doubt any decent-sized object could even pass through our solar system without being detected.
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What's decent sized? We're still not done finding Earth crossing asteroids nearly a mile across. I think the situation is that anything under a mile passing through our solar system just once is virtually guaranteed to be missed.
 
Triterope said:
The idea that an extra-terrestrial object would be missed by all the radar, tracking stations, and telescopes in the world, and spotted by some guy wandering around his backyard, is just plain silly.
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[CT mode]They've obviously perfected stealth technology which prevents our radar from detecting them. They don't want to be seen by us. That's why they always cover their ships in dozens of bright flashing lights.[/CT mode.]

Steve S.
 
MG1962 said:
If you research backwards you find it interesting how UFOs have always remained one level of technology above us. Through the 1880s onwards. The majority of UFO sightings where very zeppelin in appearence. When we got zeppelins, they got faster ones, then other heavier than air devices

Personally i have always thought UFOs to be the modern man's witches and occult happenings
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It sounds like we both believe the same thing then. Back when I was a wide eyed adolescent that believed anything that was weird (UFOs, Bigfoot etc) my research led me down the road to noticing this pattern. My skeptic side kicked in and this phenomenon of alien and spacecraft descriptions that changed to match contemporaneous mass media was essentially the death of my belief in weird things. All before the age of 15.
 
Whiplash said:
Oh there's plenty of woo on that subject. I can't think of any specific books, but I've heard endless parades of guests on Coast to Coast who know the whole thing. There is quite a dynamic relationship between them all as I remember ;)
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Uh oh. WE'RE ALL DOOMED!!

I have a friend that guards a lumber mill at night and listens to C2C almost religiously, I'll have to see if he's heard of it.
 
Some of the things I remember.. some people would say the Repitles are at war with the Greys.. Others said that the Reptiles were the overlords of the Greys.. Quite a few who said the Reptilian aliens are actually from earth, evolved from Dinosaurs, living deep in the earth.. As you can imagine, not a whole lot of common ground (just like truther theories!)
 
Whiplash said:
Some of the things I remember.. some people would say the Repitles are at war with the Greys.. Others said that the Reptiles were the overlords of the Greys.. Quite a few who said the Reptilian aliens are actually from earth, evolved from Dinosaurs, living deep in the earth.. As you can imagine, not a whole lot of common ground (just like truther theories!)
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That's equal parts hilarious and sad. Wow.
 
steve s said:
[CT mode]They've obviously perfected stealth technology which prevents our radar from detecting them. They don't want to be seen by us. That's why they always cover their ships in dozens of bright flashing lights.[/CT mode.]

Steve S.
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We can make a craft almost undetectable to radar now. Why is that such a hard thing to believe?
For theoretical means, you could 'shield' a craft in plasma and it would absorb electromagnetic waves.
It would return no radio waves because they would be absorbed. Thus making the craft invisible. (But not invisible to sight).
If a craft could change or cause an energy 'shell' that operated at 300 nm, then we would not be able to see it with our eyes, because it would be in the ultra violet spectrum of light. I have not looked into that, but I've heard it is possible in theory.

If we can think it, it would be logical to assume a more advanced civilization could have thought of it as well, and may have done it already.
If of course such an advanced civilization existed.

Then the distance problem is not a problem in theory using hyper- dimensional quantum mechanics. Worm holes, space bending, zero point energy for fuel, etc. So with known laws of physics, a space craft is theoretically possible.
 
Devil's Advocate said:
If we can think it, it would be logical to assume a more advanced civilization could have thought of it as well, and may have done it already.
If of course such an advanced civilization existed.

Then the distance problem is not a problem in theory using hyper- dimensional quantum mechanics.
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You do realise how LUCKY we have been? Surviving meteors etc...while advacing! I think radio waves of long forgotten civilizations would be seen! They would surely harness the easiest right, at some point ?Yet nada! What's wrong with us being, the most advaced planet for billions of galaxies! Delusions, or fantasy?
 
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