Al Qaida 9/11-Strategists Won

[Oliver]

I suspect it quite a while that Al Qaidas strategies included the invasion of Iraq as a possible reaction for 9/11. Maybe because Iraq was a pain in the ass for America and Israel anyway, maybe to get rid of Saddam who didn't support their Ideologies, maybe because gaining support from Muslims all over the World for any military intervention in the Middle-East.

If that were some of their Goals for the 9/11 aftermath, they surely succeeded.

Now I refuse to think that any enemy is dumb because most Al Qaida Heads are very educated Scholars. They know their Region, the political surroundings in the Muslim World and are most probably also skilled in studying Americas Behavior and Foreign Policies.

Of course, you may think otherwise and 9/11 was just a stupid accident that didn't include any planning or strategy at all. But at least, it was a success for them concerning the underestimation in the US.

So my question is:

What were Al Qaidas Strategies for the 9/11 Aftermath - and do you believe that the current situation since 9/11 isn't an Al Qaida success story besides some calculated arrests and deaths of AQ's Members?

Concerning the Poll: Please Note it's a public poll (Multiple Choice).

 

[The Great Hairy One]

What poll?

Cheers,
TGHO

 

[Oliver]

What poll?

Cheers,
TGHO

Hey! I'm an old man and no cruise missile, mhmmkayyy?

 

[Flo]

I don't think AlQ - or the small number of its heads with any sense of strategy - had any certainty as to the response to 9/11, other than expecting some over reaction that would further justify jihad to their eyes.

It appears that most AlQ heads are scholars in very limited domains, mostly religion and propaganda, and that their long term visions are limited to their dreams of a mythical global caliphate.

As to their success, I see it as extremely limited, and destined to sputter off the minute the Iraqi mess is somehow sorted out. Let's be real: no disrespect intended to the victims, but the big attack of 9/11 certainly didn't cause enough deaths and destruction to lead to any significant change in the balance of powers or the flow of the World economy. Once the elation of parts of the muslim world at seeing David deal a blow to Goliath wore off, most thinking muslims could see quite clearly that AlQ is not going to alleviate any of their multiple day-to-day problems. The muslim populations in Europe that AlQ seeks to recruit didn't rise as one man to fight the oppression of the corrupt West upon seeing the glorious accomplishments of the jihadists, and is getting more and more p****d off at seeing how their lives are affected by the anti-terrorist measures in answer to the fanatics' preachings and actions, etc.

All in all, nothing is indicative in any way that AlQ is a success story.

 

[aggle-rithm]

I don't think AlQ - or the small number of its heads with any sense of strategy - had any certainty as to the response to 9/11, other than expecting some over reaction that would further justify jihad to their eyes.

I think the 9/11 attacks were about on par with the Doolittle raid of Tokyo during WWII: It didn't really accomplish much strategically, but the goal wasn't so much to hurt the enemy as it was to raise morale back home.

 

[Abooga]

Have you guys thought of how many muslim yihadists mush´ve died in the war? Even if the war itself has made more muslims join the yihad, so many of them are getting butchered that it kind of compensates, doesn´t it?

...

Big wars kill lots and lots of men. It seems that every now and then there is a "surplus" of men and that wars serve the purpose of "cleaning up". I imagine this is an existing theory. Anyone knows?

 

[Flo]

I think the 9/11 attacks were about on par with the Doolittle raid of Tokyo during WWII: It didn't really accomplish much strategically, but the goal wasn't so much to hurt the enemy as it was to raise morale back home.

I'll go so far as to tell that you overestimate AlQ planners. Those people are stuck with a 13th century mentality, except when it comes to guns and explosives ... Everything I've seen and heard them do and say tell me they believe that spectacular = efficient. Hence the attacks on symbols, images, etc.

 

[Oliver]

Have you guys thought of how many muslim yihadists mush´ve died in the war? Even if the war itself has made more muslims join the yihad, so many of them are getting butchered that it kind of compensates, doesn´t it?
...
Big wars kill lots and lots of men. It seems that every now and then there is a "surplus" of men and that wars serve the purpose of "cleaning up". I imagine this is an existing theory. Anyone knows?

Um, we're talking about Al Qaida. And no - there weren't any Al Qaida Groups in Iraq, before the War. And I doubt that many Jihadists died in the War. So that compensates nothing until you think that killing one Jihadist being replaced by 10 others, is a success.

 

[Oliver]

I'll go so far as to tell that you overestimate AlQ planners. Those people are stuck with a 13th century mentality, except when it comes to guns and explosives ... Everything I've seen and heard them do and say tell me they believe that spectacular = efficient. Hence the attacks on symbols, images, etc.

May I remind you that these "13th century" mentalities overrun the whole security system and literally kicked Americas ass on 9/11. (I apologize). And I don't even mention the Christian right and Creationism in connection to the 13th century.

Al-Zawahiri studied behavior, psychology and pharmacology as part of his medical degree at Cairo University.

Osama bin Laden graduated from the university in Jeddah.

Marwan al-Shehhi: It took two years for him to learn enough German before he enrolled in a university with a military scholarship.

Atta graduated with a degree in architecture from Cairo University

Said Bahaji: He enrolled in an electrical engineering program at a technical university in 1996

Ziad Jarrah: In 1997, Jarrah left Greifswald and instead began studying aerospace engineering at the University of Applied Sciences in Hamburg.

Khalid Sheikh Mohammed: ...North Carolina Agricultural and Technical State University and completing a degree in mechanical engineering in 1986

Ali Mohammed: A former special forces Sergeant stationed at Fort Bragg, North Carolina.

Sources: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68138 / Wikipedia

 

[jsiv]

I voted yes, because I think you're right -- Bush is evil and conspiraced with the jews to invade the middle east and steal all their oil.

 

[Oliver]

I voted yes, because I think you're right -- Bush is evil and conspiraced with the jews to invade the middle east and steal all their oil.

Um, no - you actually voted "No, the US didn't have the predicted success yet, but the War on Terror works just fine".

But hey, you just said you're a conspiracy nut anyway, so never mind.

 

[jsiv]

Um, no - you actually voted "No, the US didn't have the predicted success yet, but the War on Terror works just fine".

But hey, you just said you're a conspiracy nut anyway, so never mind.

I'm the conspiracy kook. That's cute.


I was just trying to point out the triteness of this never-ending stream of identical threads.

 

[Oliver]

I'm the conspiracy kook. That's cute.

I was just trying to point out the triteness of this never-ending stream of identical threads.

Nope, this particular issue hasn't been raised yet. And yes, all my threads wouldn't exist without the war. I probably wouldn't even be here in JREF/Politics. But you may suggest a new Subforum just about Iraq, War, Lobbies, Media and Al Qaida here ... to get rid of me.

 

[Pardalis]

Of course, you may think otherwise and 9/11 was just a stupid accident that didn't include any planning or strategy at all.

Who on earth thinks that?

So my question is:

Here we go...

What were Al Qaidas Strategies for the 9/11 Aftermath -

Chaos in the US.

and do you believe that the current situation since 9/11 isn't an Al Qaida success story

Sure, it created even more chaos worldwide. That's what terrorists do.

besides some calculated arrests and deaths of AQ's Members?

"Calculated arrests and deaths"? Are you implying AQ allowed some of their top officials to be killed on purpose?

 

[Tailgater]

Um, we're talking about Al Qaida. And no - there weren't any Al Qaida Groups in Iraq, before the War.

He said war (not Iraq specific), but I'm sure you were drooling to point that out. No Al Qaida? Like zero?

And I doubt that many Jihadists died in the War. So that compensates nothing until you think that killing one Jihadist being replaced by 10 others, is a success.

I doubt anybody died in the war. WTF. I doubt you spend any part of your day without eating, sleeping, or thinking of the next thread to start on the same subject with a slightly different angle and the same conclusions. Evidence Jihadists are not dying and that when you kill one, ten more pop up. So according to you, we are creating jihadists at ten for every one killed, but we are not killing many, and it's all based on your doubts. Sounds like fuzzy math.

 

[Tailgater]

May I remind you that these "13th century" mentalities overrun the whole security system and literally kicked Americas ass on 9/11. (I apologize). And I don't even mention the Christian right and Creationism in connection to the 13th century.

No, they took down the World Trade Center. They killed people from countries all over the world. They didn't kick anyones ass, they murdered people. They didn't bypass any security. They took advantage of a system where people enjoy freedoms to not be hassled everywhere they go, scared a bunch of passengers who were taught to do what they were told, and then commited a murder/suicide.

Go ahead and mention the christian right in the 13th century and just prove more of what a bigoted idiot you are, because I'm sure what you have to say is less about history and more about ripping people in the present for crap that happened hundreds of years ago.

 

[Oliver]

Who on earth thinks that?
Here we go...
Chaos in the US.

Sure, it created even more chaos worldwide. That's what terrorists do.

"Calculated arrests and deaths"? Are you implying AQ allowed some of their top officials to be killed on purpose?

Yes, I believe they probably knew that there will be a hunt for them after 9/11, of course.

Well, people who believe that Al Qaida is clever enough to plan 9/11 - also should be clever enough to understand that they had more in mind then just chaos.

As outlined by Zawahiri in the letter, al Qaeda's battle plan calls for driving the Americans out of Iraq, establishing an Islamic regime in as much of the country as possible and then extending the holy war to other Arab countries, including Egypt, Lebanon and Syria.

Source: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/10/06/eveningnews/main924484.shtml

 

[Pardalis]

So there is a terror threat after all?

 

[Tailgater]

So there is a terror threat after all?

 

[Oliver]

No, they took down the World Trade Center. They killed people from countries all over the world. They didn't kick anyones ass, they murdered people. They didn't bypass any security. They took advantage of a system where people enjoy freedoms to not be hassled everywhere they go, scared a bunch of passengers who were taught to do what they were told, and then commited a murder/suicide.

Go ahead and mention the christian right in the 13th century and just prove more of what a bigoted idiot you are, because I'm sure what you have to say is less about history and more about ripping people in the present for crap that happened hundreds of years ago.

Nope, from their view they kicked asses on 9/11 - just like you would say the US kicked asses in Iraq or Afghanistan. Get used to it - not everyone sees the US from within.

Actually the Christians murdered all over the centuries in their holy Bibles name - including the 13th century.

Got any problems with that - or is this just new for you?