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Any hypothesis on pools of metal?

kookbreaker said:
People on site were concerned with saving lives, recovering bodies, removing debris, and preventing furthers hazards. Preventing the overactive imagination of kooks was not on their mind.

In addition, any such testing would be ignored ion favor of some invented lies by CTers in any case. The initial reports of the molten steel came from a second hand account that makes no sense when you read it. The whole 'HUGE POOLS OF MOLTEN STEEL' became a running joke on USENET because the story was so laughable. My favorite part is when they 'dipped' out the molten steel with an excavator bucket....yeah..you do that...
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoskepticism
 
PhantomWolf said:
Please tell me this was tongue in cheek, usually I wouldn't ask but... well with some of the posters we get here one just never knows...
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hahaha. Good, I got the reply I was expecting. Laughter is the best medicine, as they say.
Yes, it was tongue in cheek. But I seriously plan to find out if the top point of the Pentagon is pointing north just for information when I see the guy that said it again. I can have fun with research as well, as can we all.
=o)
 
Devil's Advocate said:
hahaha. Good, I got the reply I was expecting. Laughter is the best medicine, as they say.
Yes, it was tongue in cheek. But I seriously plan to find out if the top point of the Pentagon is pointing north just for information when I see the guy that said it again. I can have fun with research as well, as can we all.
=o)
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Sorry to disappoint you but none of the Pentagon corners point even remotely north. Not even magnetic north. Sorry.
 
Devil's Advocate said:
hahaha. Good, I got the reply I was expecting. Laughter is the best medicine, as they say.
Yes, it was tongue in cheek. But I seriously plan to find out if the top point of the Pentagon is pointing north just for information when I see the guy that said it again. I can have fun with research as well, as can we all.
=o)
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Minor derail continued. See this Thread on the BAUT, espeically Jay's post #6. Now back to your regular pools of metal debunking.
 
Myriad said:
First-hand witnesses did report "molten metal" and occasionally "molten steel." How they could have distinguished one molten metal from another is not clear. What's also not always clear is whether when they say "molten" they mean fully liquid, or merely softened. (Though one described the molten metal as "dripping" which strongly suggests liquid.)

All references to "pools" are, to my knowledge, second-hand at best. What I conjecture happened is that listening to first-hand witnesses describe "molten metal," and interpreting that as "large quantities of liquid metal," some reporters assumed that naturally such liquid would inevitably form pools. They then passed on reports of "pools of molten metal."
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I think the more important point is that this entire "molten steel" argument is an irrelevant red herring.

Let's look at it another way. Suppose we could prove that there was, in fact, molten steel found at ground zero weeks and months after the collapse. What in hell would that prove? Do the latest CT's involve magical, month-long burning thermite?

I'm very confused.
 
Devil's Advocate said:
Come on, bro. Don't do that 'twoofer' stuff. Lets be civil about it all. I understand people get tired of one another, but we do not need to take anger to insult. It is unnesessary. I do not want people going on the defensive or assault. It is counter productive.
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Sorry, but twoofer is the name they've earned for themselves - largely because they do things like scream "thermite!" and yet turn pale when asked how much was used.
 
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BillyRayValentine said:
I think the more important point is that this entire "molten steel" argument is an irrelevant red herring.

Let's look at it another way. Suppose we could prove that there was, in fact, molten steel found at ground zero weeks and months after the collapse. What in hell would that prove? Do the latest CT's involve magical, month-long burning thermite?

I'm very confused.
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I think it is important from the start of the question, because according to all reports I've read, the fires in the towers would not have been hot enough to melt most metals.
So, I figured that there was an element or equation that I was just not getting if indeed there were steams/pools/rivers of molten steel.
This was not to prove or disprove any standing hypothesis or theory. It was simple curiosity as to what *could* have caused it.
Keeping in mind, I wanted to hear other possible reasoning for the event other than Military/ Demolition compounds. I would find it hard to believe that it(molten metal of some type) is not true based on testimony and video already provided. But, I will not pretend to know the amount of, or type of, material which was seen to be molten.

So, given the fact that it is clear that there was *some type* of molten material, then what could be the reason it remained so hot for so long?
I am unclear as to the temperature readings that were taken during the investigation at or around the basement areas which could give clues as to what was causing the area to record the temperature some say were recorded at the time.
Could the oven effect be it? What were the temperatures at what times?
Could the fires inside the towers have heated the metal within enough to match the temperatures that were said to have been taken?
Would the temperatures have been higher than they were while the towers stood after collapse? Oven effect again?

I do not know the answers to these questions.
 
Aside from the fact that you'd need a large amount of thermite to produce pools of molten metal, the reaction is over very quickly and so heat starts being lost almost immediately. If the insulation of the rubble pile is sufficient to trap the heat from a reaction that is over so fast, then it has to be sufficient to trap heat from hydrocarbon fires.

Building up heat through insulation is a basic principle of metal working.

That's before you consider how it is possible to get the thermite to burn sideways.

And before you consider that thermite has never been used to demolish a building - so this would be an entirely experimental demolition technique. Seems like a massive risk for a secret plot.

And even if the buildings hadn't collapsed thousands of people would still have died in the fires. Ground Zero would have been two blackened shells. The impact would have been roughly the same.

In fact something equivalent to the attack on the Cole, the IRA bombing campaigns, Madrid, 7/7 or the suicide bombings in Israel would still have been a massive shock.
 
DA, you're failing to make the distinction between the fires in the towers and the subterranean fires in the piles. That's a common mistake. The fires in the piles were fed by a vast amount of fuel.

Conspiracists often make the strawman argument that the heat from the fire floors high in the towers was insufficient to produce cherry-red column ends weeks later, as if no additional heat was added after the collapses. in fact, a former Finnish physicist was trying to pass that off on me in an email this week. No one says that's what happened.
 
Gravy said:
DA, you're failing to make the distinction between the fires in the towers and the subterranean fires in the piles. That's a common mistake. The fires in the piles were fed by a vast amount of fuel.
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Vast amounts of fuel from what?


Why can't I put an Avatar up? I'm new to forums. =o)
 
PhantomWolf said:
And your point? Richard Hoagland believes in massive glass tunnels, buried citys, pyraimds and huge carved faces on Mars, as well as robots, machines, glass cities, and other alien structures on the Moon, that serveral of the moons of Jupiter and Saturn are either artifical or have alien structures on them, and that Washington DC was all laid out in accordance to masonic symbolism. He also does a very good page proving that those that believe that the Apollo programme was hoaxed are nutty than he is. Sometimes the insane can be right, just like a broken clock manages to be correct twice a day.
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My broken clock just flashes F*@# at me all day. I guess it could be some sort of sign.
 
Devil's Advocate said:
I think it is important from the start of the question, because according to all reports I've read, the fires in the towers would not have been hot enough to melt most metals.
So, I figured that there was an element or equation that I was just not getting if indeed there were steams/pools/rivers of molten steel.
This was not to prove or disprove any standing hypothesis or theory. It was simple curiosity as to what *could* have caused it.
Keeping in mind, I wanted to hear other possible reasoning for the event other than Military/ Demolition compounds. I would find it hard to believe that it(molten metal of some type) is not true based on testimony and video already provided. But, I will not pretend to know the amount of, or type of, material which was seen to be molten.

So, given the fact that it is clear that there was *some type* of molten material, then what could be the reason it remained so hot for so long?
I am unclear as to the temperature readings that were taken during the investigation at or around the basement areas which could give clues as to what was causing the area to record the temperature some say were recorded at the time.
Could the oven effect be it? What were the temperatures at what times?
Could the fires inside the towers have heated the metal within enough to match the temperatures that were said to have been taken?
Would the temperatures have been higher than they were while the towers stood after collapse? Oven effect again?

I do not know the answers to these questions.
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If you see Apollo20 ask him about the temperature of the pile and possible causes. I believe he's done an extensive investigation of the chemicals that could be responsible for the temperatures observed weeks after the collapse.
 
3bodyproblem said:
If you see Apollo20 ask him about the temperature of the pile and possible causes. I believe he's done an extensive investigation of the chemicals that could be responsible for the temperatures observed weeks after the collapse.
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Ok, thanks. I'll do that.
 
I think it is important from the start of the question, because according to all reports I've read, the fires in the towers would not have been hot enough to melt most metals.
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We have a poster on the board that was there. He described feeling the heat of the fire from several blocks away, the fires were a LOT hotter then the CTs would have you believe.

Tin melts at 250°C
Zinc melts at 420°C
Aluminium melts at 660°C
Brass melts at around 900°C
Bronze melts at 950°
Copper melts at a little over 1,000°C

Steel melts at after 1,200°C

The fires got to at least 600°C shown by the physical steel samples. The NIST computer predictions put some of the temperatures up to around 1,000°C.

I think there are a number of metals that would have melted in the fires.

So, given the fact that it is clear that there was *some type* of molten material, then what could be the reason it remained so hot for so long?
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Because the heat didn't have anywhere to go. The debris acted like a big blanket that kept the heat in, it's the same principle as many of the first steel forges were based on.
 
Vast amounts of fuel from what?
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Desks, chairs, pot plants, carpets, blinds, computers, wire insulation, paper, preinters, photocopiers, and even, unfortunately, even people are all nothing but fuel to a fire.
 
Devil's Advocate said:
Vast amounts of fuel from what?


Why can't I put an Avatar up? I'm new to forums. =o)
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Diesel fuel from generators, carpet, curtains, paper, computers, wiring insulation, desks, chairs, ceiling tiles, food and cooking oil in shops and restaurants and, lastly and sadly, people. There's probably other stuff that I missed.

I think you need 50 posts before you can do an avatar, forum help is here.
 
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