Patriotism Poll

[RandFan]

Is you point, White people don’t exist or race does not exist?

If neither exists, how can you claim to be White?

Seems pretty clear to me. "White race".

Genetically the difference between any two random individuals is as great as any difference between individuals of different skin color.

Race is a human construct.

ETA: My appologies for attempting to speak for Droc.

 

[MaGZ]

Something doesn't make sense. How does "all men are created equal" demonstrate that America is an experiment in "white" self-government.

This may be news to you, but America was established by White people. There were no Asians , no Blacks, no Jews in the founding of America. I guess today they don’t teach this in American history classes.

 

[RandFan]

This may be news to you, but America was established by White people. There were no Asians , no Blacks, no Jews in the founding of America.

Yes this is true but it is incidental. It doesn't prove that the founding fathers intended for it to be exclusive to whites.

 

[D'rok]

Something doesn't make sense. How does "all men are created equal" demonstrate that America is an experiment in "white" self-government.

MaGZ longs for a simpler time when only "white, male property owners" were citizens and thus bearers of Lockean natural rights. For his sake, let's hope he owns property or his 18th century utopia will be a decidedly unpleasant place for him to be.

 

[D'rok]

Seems pretty clear to me. "White race".

Genetically the difference between any two random individuals is as great as any difference between individuals of different skin color.

Race is a human construct.

ETA: My appologies for attempting to speak for Droc.

Spoken truly.

 

[MaGZ]

Both.



I don't. Thus the "quotes". But you would recognize me as part of the granfalloon you call "white".

I would be interested in knowing at what point in time did you realize you were not White? Did this happen in high school?

The same question for Randfan. Also it would be helpful if you could provide you ages.

 

[RandFan]

MaGZ longs for a simpler time when only "white, male property owners" were citizens and thus bearers of Lockean natural rights. For his sake, let's hope he owns property or his 18th century utopia will be a decidedly unpleasant place for him to be.

Thanks, and to be intellectually honest "white, male property owners" was the common definition for a number of the framers.

 

[Pardalis]

My skin is beige. It has a tendency to turn reddish in the summer if I'm not careful, and when I get sick it tends towards the green. I once turned blue when I choked on a chicken bone.

Seems I'm not white at all.

 

[RandFan]

I would be interested in knowing at what point in time did you realize you were not White? Did this happen in high school?

Oh, I have such a good memory of the exact time. It was watching Jane Elliott's Blue Eyes/Brown Eyes experiment. I'm no more "white" than blue eyed or brown hair. The designation is arbitrary and silly. It's just a phenotype.

Can you imagine dividing along the lines of hair color or eye color? How about the way in which we crack an egg.

The same question for Randfan. Also it would be helpful if you could provide you ages.

46

 

[MaGZ]

Yes this is true but it is incidental. It doesn't prove that the founding fathers intended for it to be exclusive to whites.

The White founding fathers had the option to making the Africa slaves and the Indians within the borders of the new nation equal citizens, but they did not.

I wonder why? (I think the answer was they were White racists)

 

[D'rok]

My skin is beige. It has a tendency to turn reddish in the summer if I'm not careful, and when I get sick it tends towards the green. I once turned blue when I choked on a chicken bone.

Seems I'm not white at all.

No property or citizenship for you then.

 

[RandFan]

The White founding fathers had the option to making the Africa slaves and the Indians within the borders of the new nation equal citizens, but they did not.

I wonder why? (I think the answer was they were White racists)

MaGZ, I will concede that the framers didn't see non-whites like Native Americans and Blacks as citizens and therefore there is, to a point, truth to your thesis.

That said, there is no rhetoric in the founding fathers outlining that race was a significant component of the "experiment". It's just the way things were. Yes, I concede that they were "racist" to varying degrees. I judge that by the standards of their times. Now that we know that the views were anachronistic we can easily include non-whites and females without fundamentally changing the experiment.

 

[MaGZ]

Oh, I have such a good memory of the exact time. It was watching Jane Elliott's Blue Eyes/Brown Eyes experiment. I'm no more "white" than blue eyed or brown hair. The designation is arbitrary and silly. It's just a phenotype.

Can you imagine dividing along the lines of hair color or eye color? How about the way in which we crack an egg.

46

With that type of reasoning how can you argue you are human when compared to primates.

In you mind isn’t humanity, like race, just a construct.

 

[Boo]

My option is best expressed by Mark Twain: 'Loyalty to the country always, loyalty to the government when it deserves it.'



Boo

 

[MaGZ]

MaGZ, I will concede that the framers didn't see non-whites like Native Americans and Blacks as citizens and therefore there is, to a point, truth to your thesis.

That said, there is no rhetoric in the founding fathers outlining that race was a significant component of the "experiment". It's just the way things were. Yes, I concede that they were "racist" to varying degrees. I judge that by the standards of their times. Now that we know that the views were anachronistic we can easily include non-whites and females without fundamentally changing the experiment.

So you agree with me, when we honor the founding fathers of America we are honoring White racists?

 

[RandFan]

With that type of reasoning how can you argue you are human when compared to primates.

Humans:

• Document their history and therefore are capable of analyzing said history in order to learn from mistakes.
• Contemplate their role in the universe and seek to find meaning and understanding of humanity.
• Are capable of reasoning and therefore understanding ethical implications of empathy and the futility of judging others by a phenotype.
• Are moral agents.
• Codify rules of behavior.
• Can figure out that there is no significant differences between humans.
• Have no more genetic differences between any two random humans as they do any two individuals of different skin color.
• Have more genetic difference between humans and other primates than between any two humans.

In you mind isn’t humanity, like race, just a construct.

One could argue that it is and there is some basis for such a conclusion. The problem is that there are very real and concrete differences between humans and other animals. If blinded we could still tell the difference. Could you, blinded, pick out individuals based on race?

 

[RandFan]

So you agree with me, when we honor the founding fathers of America we are honoring White racists?

Yes. However we are not honoring them for being racist. Racism, like the belief in humors and blood letting was based on ignorance. We've come a long way since then. We honor the founders for their accomplishments and not their sins.

 

[D'rok]

Yes. However we are not honoring them for being racist. Racism, like the belief in humors and blood letting was based on ignorance. We've come a long way since then. We honor the founders for their accomplishments and not their sins.

Nicely said.

 

[MaGZ]

Humans:

• Document their history and therefore are capable of analyzing said history in order to learn from mistakes.
• Contemplate their role in the universe and seek to find meaning and understanding of humanity.
• Are capable of reasoning and therefore understanding ethical implications of empathy and the futility of judging others by a phenotype.
• Are moral agents.
• Codify rules of behavior.
• Can figure out that there is no significant differences between humans.
• Have no more genetic differences between any two random humans as they do any two individuals of different skin color.
• Have more genetic difference between humans and other primates than between any two humans.

One could argue that it is and there is some basis for such a conclusion. The problem is that there are very real and concrete differences between humans and other animals. If blinded we could still tell the difference. Could you, blinded, pick out individuals based on race?

Equality: Man's Most Dangerous Myth
by Dr. William L. Pierce

http://www.stormfront.org/racediff/equality.html

 

[Pardalis]

Stormfront... now, should I take this source seriously?