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The Best Movies You've Never Seen

treble_head said:
I completely understand your frustration. It's not Hollywood, it's not indie, it's not East Asian Cinema, It's EVERYWHERE.

Creativity is really hard to do, and I know you want something really salable on your hands, but it's not going to happen at first. Here's an interesting breakdown for you. Take the top 20 grossing films of all time (I know you're not aiming that high, but bear with me). Take away those: Not part of a franchise, those not based off of previous literature (or, indeed, Disney rides). You have:

Titanic
Finding Nemo.
ET

Your best bet is to write the next Blood Simple or Eraserhead or Down By Law. Something that might spark a cult interest. (sorry if i'm rambling, I've been sick and can't sleep).

Just don't get TOO creative. If I ever have to watch anything like The Cook, The Theif, His Wife and her Lover again, I'll shoot myself.

Oh screw. I just realized that all 3 examples of great indie screenwriting were written by the directors.

Have you ever thought about directing? :o

ETA: If you want a completely unrealistic, but all too true account of getting a movie made with a big part dedicated to scriptwriting, I would suggest picking up the extremely amazing, yet too good for TV show ACTION!, starring Jay Mohr on DVD. Really great stuff.
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Great stuff, TH.

I can definitely feel myself being pulled towards directing. A lot of writers end up there. Now that I'm writing scripts it's painfully obvious as to why: You have to make up the movie in your head anyway while you're writing it! So it is no great leap to slip right into the director's chair. I think that is exactly where I'm going.

This current script, this Western, I believe I will not tolerate it NOT being made. And so that pretty much means - unless it catches somebody's fancy (like winning the lottery) - that I'll have to indie it if I can. I'll have to get a crew and a good troupe of actors together and head out on location. I've already started establishing a relationship with the film bureau at the location.
 
treble_head said:
Oh, and someone mentioned the idea of Western Noir. THAT is something that would sure as hell pique my interest, but prolly as a TV script. Still a great concept, IMHO.
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Interesting. This is going to be a Western combo (with another genre) but I don't see this particular script going noir.

Noir and Westerns have several things in common already so it would be a good blend. They're both violent, and highly stylized. The woman angle is different though. Noir is a lot of femme fatale, whereas in the Western the girl is the peacemaker or the prize that actually gets won.
 
I have a random question for CR. You mention the script you are writing is heavily reliant on characterization, and you also mention you are planning to do some on-location research. Did you select the locations you are visiting based on historical/geographical information, or based on character information? The reason I ask is that I would recommend heading up to Alaska (Anchorage or Fairbanks) if you have the time and/or budget, as I have found the people up there match my vision of how a pioneer/frontiersman/mountain man would talk and act much more than the people I have met in the mid-West/deep-West. I am sure there are people like that in parts of the continental US, but they may be harder to find and talk to. Of course, my vision of how a pioneer behaves may be totally off-base.

Just my $0.02.
 
Hokulele said:
I have a random question for CR. You mention the script you are writing is heavily reliant on characterization, and you also mention you are planning to do some on-location research. Did you select the locations you are visiting based on historical/geographical information, or based on character information? The reason I ask is that I would recommend heading up to Alaska (Anchorage or Fairbanks) if you have the time and/or budget, as I have found the people up there match my vision of how a pioneer/frontiersman/mountain man would talk and act much more than the people I have met in the mid-West/deep-West. I am sure there are people like that in parts of the continental US, but they may be harder to find and talk to. Of course, my vision of how a pioneer behaves may be totally off-base.

Just my $0.02.
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Hi H -

Good ideas (as always) :)

In this case, the location is woven into the fabric of the plot so I'm pretty much locked into it.

You're right about Alaska, it's perhaps the last part of the USA where that pioneering frontiersman attitude can still be found. Of course, Canada as well.

And as civilization began sweeping out the grit of the Old West towards the end of the 19th century, Alaska beckoned those who didn't want to let go. Wyatt Earp, for example, spent some time in Alaska in the 1890s.

I'm Midwestern myself and there are faint echoes of frontiersmanship still out there. I burned through about ever Western novel and comic book I could get my hands on as a kiddie. Seen a lot of Western films and of course the Westerns on the TeeVee (Gunsmoke being my fave, set in Dodge City).

'Course it's still not enough and I've had to purchase books on the lingo of that time, because I want the dialogue to be dead-on.

Maybe I should take the JREF trip up to Alaska, jump ship, hang out with the locals, gamble, shoot 'em up a bit, play some faro, have a coupla good old fights and then rejoin the normal people back on board. :)
 
ConspiRaider said:
Hi H -

Good ideas (as always) :)

In this case, the location is woven into the fabric of the plot so I'm pretty much locked into it.

You're right about Alaska, it's perhaps the last part of the USA where that pioneering frontiersman attitude can still be found. Of course, Canada as well.

And as civilization began sweeping out the grit of the Old West towards the end of the 19th century, Alaska beckoned those who didn't want to let go. Wyatt Earp, for example, spent some time in Alaska in the 1890s.

I'm Midwestern myself and there are faint echoes of frontiersmanship still out there. I burned through about ever Western novel and comic book I could get my hands on as a kiddie. Seen a lot of Western films and of course the Westerns on the TeeVee (Gunsmoke being my fave, set in Dodge City).

'Course it's still not enough and I've had to purchase books on the lingo of that time, because I want the dialogue to be dead-on.

Maybe I should take the JREF trip up to Alaska, jump ship, hang out with the locals, gamble, shoot 'em up a bit, play some faro, have a coupla good old fights and then rejoin the normal people back on board. :)
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That's cool. I figured it was more for the actual location than the characterizations, but wanted to ask. Most of the movies I enjoy are heavily character-dependent, and some of the westerns I have seen really bothered me in that the main characters just didn't strike true for some reason. Either they were too much in the false-machismo camp, or they didn't seem like the type that would survive in such a self-sufficient environment.

Of course, much of this would depend on the time period you are writing about. May I ask what year/decade you are setting your screenplay in?
 
Hokulele said:
That's cool. I figured it was more for the actual location than the characterizations, but wanted to ask. Most of the movies I enjoy are heavily character-dependent, and some of the westerns I have seen really bothered me in that the main characters just didn't strike true for some reason. Either they were too much in the false-machismo camp, or they didn't seem like the type that would survive in such a self-sufficient environment.

Of course, much of this would depend on the time period you are writing about. May I ask what year/decade you are setting your screenplay in?
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Hi H -

I know what you mean about a lot of Westerns. But there are some that really got parts of it correct, or close to it. Red River, for example. The Outlaw Josey Wales is more or less based on real events. Language is good, historical context is good. There weren't many - but there were definitely men in the Old West as badassed as Clint Eastwood. Calamity Jane was considered more macho than the dude she hung out with - Wild Bill Hickok. Bill was considered a dandy.

I won't give a specific year here (darn innernetz walls gots ears), but it will be within that time frame generally agreed upon as the "Old West". Right after the Civil War ended, to the turn of the century. It stretches out in both directions a bit, but that 35-year period is considered the heart of the Old West.
 
ConspiRaider said:
Hi H -

I know what you mean about a lot of Westerns. But there are some that really got parts of it correct, or close to it. Red River, for example. The Outlaw Josey Wales is more or less based on real events. Language is good, historical context is good. There weren't many - but there were definitely men in the Old West as badassed as Clint Eastwood. Calamity Jane was considered more macho than the dude she hung out with - Wild Bill Hickok. Bill was considered a dandy.

I won't give a specific year here (darn innernetz walls gots ears), but it will be within that time frame generally agreed upon as the "Old West". Right after the Civil War ended, to the turn of the century. It stretches out in both directions a bit, but that 35-year period is considered the heart of the Old West.
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I can understand why you wouldn't want to give away details, I was just curious as I had recently read a book set in the time period immediately following the Civil War, which made me think of it. Damned if I can remember the name of the book, but it was fiction.
 
Just about ready to start the script on this Western film. I've got to profile the main characters a bit more, and then I'm off. The main research is done, although research is never complete until the script is finished. And that's just for the writing. For shooting, more. Even some in post-production.

There will be unique quirks to this Western. It isn't quite what you're expecting it to be.

I'll probably have to make this film myself because I can already hear the negativity blasting out of Hollywood - and that's if anybody even bothers to turn past the title page and start reading. And of course I can always count on some snot-nosed kid script reader pitching it in the shredder because I didn't blow up 13 cars and 48 houses in the first ten minutes of the script. That's what happens, you know. They base their reaction on the first 10 pages of the script. Which to me - is pure madness. Many a great film took a helluva lot longer than 10 minutes to really get going.

So, I'm figuring on completing the script this summer, and then working the idea into the industry through the rest of 2007, and maybe look at a shoot next spring. I have a few aces up my sleeve so we'll play them as needed.
 
ConspiRaider said:
Just about ready to start the script on this Western film. I've got to profile the main characters a bit more, and then I'm off. The main research is done, although research is never complete until the script is finished. And that's just for the writing. For shooting, more. Even some in post-production.

There will be unique quirks to this Western. It isn't quite what you're expecting it to be.

I'll probably have to make this film myself because I can already hear the negativity blasting out of Hollywood - and that's if anybody even bothers to turn past the title page and start reading. And of course I can always count on some snot-nosed kid script reader pitching it in the shredder because I didn't blow up 13 cars and 48 houses in the first ten minutes of the script. That's what happens, you know. They base their reaction on the first 10 pages of the script. Which to me - is pure madness. Many a great film took a helluva lot longer than 10 minutes to really get going.

So, I'm figuring on completing the script this summer, and then working the idea into the industry through the rest of 2007, and maybe look at a shoot next spring. I have a few aces up my sleeve so we'll play them as needed.
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OK Conspiraider, let me guess:
It's actually a moving story of a man trying to put his past behind him by starting a new life in the Dakota territories. He strikes it rich, only to be swindled out of the gold by George Hirst. He then realises that he can't escape his past and gets a job as a Saloon Floozie servicing drunken miners for dimes.

Eventually in a haze of home made booze and chinese opium he shoots Wild Bill Hickock after mistaking him for a bear and heads for California hoping to put his past behind him again.
 
treble_head said:
Take the top 20 grossing films of all time (I know you're not aiming that high, but bear with me). Take away those: Not part of a franchise, those not based off of previous literature (or, indeed, Disney rides). You have:

Titanic
Finding Nemo.
ET
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What franchise, previous literature, or Disney ride was The Lion King based on?

There's a reason adaptations do well. Good stories are not rare, but great stories are. The odds of any new story (regardless of format) being any good is pretty decent, but the odds of it being as good as the billions of stories that have already been told in the past ten thousand years is pretty slim.

-Gumboot

ETA. It's worth pointing out that Titanic can hardly be considered original, given it was based on a historic event.
 
ConspiRaider,

Just wanted to ease your concerns about Hollywood having degenerated. It hasn't at all. Hollywood is, and always has been, large corporations seeking to make lots of money. It's not about storytelling, and it never has been.

At least these days they only make sequels, instead of just making the same movie over and over again.

Not to mention the old serials they used to have where the same characters appeared in film after film after film.

-Gumboot
 
I too would like to see a modern-made German perspective of WW2, specifically the battles in the west (not the Soviet battles, but D-Day + Battle of the Bulge).

I'd also like to see someone make a North Vietnamese perspective video, but that will never happen.
 
Brainache said:
OK Conspiraider, let me guess:
It's actually a moving story of a man trying to put his past behind him by starting a new life in the Dakota territories. He strikes it rich, only to be swindled out of the gold by George Hirst. He then realises that he can't escape his past and gets a job as a Saloon Floozie servicing drunken miners for dimes.

Eventually in a haze of home made booze and chinese opium he shoots Wild Bill Hickock after mistaking him for a bear and heads for California hoping to put his past behind him again.
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HOLY FRIGGIN' TOLEDO!!!

That's it word for word! Well, almost. How did you know? Are you following me? Am I gonna hafta call Homeland Security to see if you're spying on me? Are you aiming an audio device at my balcony window to pick up my story dictation (neighbors call it "raving") with Sonic Vibration Detection and Interpretation (SOVBDEANIN)? Am I to hire a private dick to follow you around to see that you're not following ME around? Huh?

Instead of George Hirst, it's actually William Randolph Hearst, who used the bonanza to start a newspaper business. Other than that, you got it all, dude! Even Wild Bill being mistaken for a silver-backed grizzly (by smell).

Darn innernetz! Foiled again!
 
ConspiRaider said:
HOLY FRIGGIN' TOLEDO!!!

That's it word for word! Well, almost. How did you know? Are you following me? Am I gonna hafta call Homeland Security to see if you're spying on me? Are you aiming an audio device at my balcony window to pick up my story dictation (neighbors call it "raving") with Sonic Vibration Detection and Interpretation (SOVBDEANIN)? Am I to hire a private dick to follow you around to see that you're not following ME around? Huh?

Instead of George Hirst, it's actually William Randolph Hearst, who used the bonanza to start a newspaper business. Other than that, you got it all, dude! Even Wild Bill being mistaken for a silver-backed grizzly (by smell).

Darn innernetz! Foiled again!
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Well I meant George Hearst, William Randolph's daddy, but I guess I should be expecting a million bucks sometime soon.

I actually divined your plot by the simple method of observing the ripples on the water in my fish tank and the aparently random, but actually quite precise movements of a pair of scribbled goby (Bob and Betty) that I keep for this purpose.
tn_Awgra_u0.jpg


These fellas are very sensitive to the ravings of aspiring screenwriters on the other side of the world. All it takes is a bit of practice and anyone can read the tail flicks and fin flutters enough to see at least two treatments per month.
 
Brainache said:
Well I meant George Hearst, William Randolph's daddy, but I guess I should be expecting a million bucks sometime soon.

I actually divined your plot by the simple method of observing the ripples on the water in my fish tank and the aparently random, but actually quite precise movements of a pair of scribbled goby (Bob and Betty) that I keep for this purpose.
tn_Awgra_u0.jpg


These fellas are very sensitive to the ravings of aspiring screenwriters on the other side of the world. All it takes is a bit of practice and anyone can read the tail flicks and fin flutters enough to see at least two treatments per month.
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FISH!!!11! I can't believe it but I must believe it!

A coupla - what the hell are they? Friggin' GOBIES?!? How's about I drive 'em to the middle of the Gobi Desert and see iffn they can FINd (pun intended) thar way back? I'll bet they'll be flickin' and a flutterin' all kinds of messages then, by guppy - I mean by gilly - GOLLY! Oh wait, they're SCRIBBLED friggin' gobies? Lemme scribble 'em my own little message:

G'bye, Goby!
 
ConspiRaider said:
HOLY FRIGGIN' TOLEDO!!!

That's it word for word! Well, almost. How did you know? Are you following me? Am I gonna hafta call Homeland Security to see if you're spying on me? Are you aiming an audio device at my balcony window to pick up my story dictation (neighbors call it "raving") with Sonic Vibration Detection and Interpretation (SOVBDEANIN)? Am I to hire a private dick to follow you around to see that you're not following ME around? Huh?

Instead of George Hirst, it's actually William Randolph Hearst, who used the bonanza to start a newspaper business. Other than that, you got it all, dude! Even Wild Bill being mistaken for a silver-backed grizzly (by smell).

Darn innernetz! Foiled again!
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Don't feel too bad. The same thing happened to me - thanks to Merry Christmas/Joyeux Noel I now have to completely rewrite the third act of my WW1 script.
 
Polaris said:
Don't feel too bad. The same thing happened to me - thanks to Merry Christmas/Joyeux Noel I now have to completely rewrite the third act of my WW1 script.
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That's a tough break. Chin up, though. I'm a gonna go me to Washington and lobby to have 'em cancel Christmas this year in protest. Us writers gots to schtick together.

70 pages into the script! Yippee! This baby is a MOVIN'!!! And I've got the next 3 scenes in my head so I'll be getting close to 90 in a day or two. The script CANNOT be any longer than 120 pages. So it's making its dash for the finish line.

This thing is going to be made, methinks. It's working out rather well. A friggin' Western, and it's gonna get made. Yee-Hah!
 
Hokulele said:
Let us know when/where the premiere is so we all can crash it and say "I remember when he was just another random poster on the Internet." ;)
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Random Poster?!? That's the name of the cowpuncher wearin' the black hat in my movin' pitcher!!!11one!!11!

They tell ya as a writer, everything's been done before. SHEESH!

Can't I write ANYTHING you neek?

I'm scrappin' this baby, thinkin' mebbe of writin' a flick about this insurance guy, see, and he like gets floored by this sexy dame with a hubby and step-daughter, and THEN I was figgerin' mebbe they could like Double-Indemnity the hubby on a northbound like TRAIN and like he the insurance guy gets caught cuz he was wearin' a honey of an anklet at a public swimming pool and this insurance claims adjuster make-pretendin' to be a LIFE guard kinda ganders over and SEES the anklet and...

But I've said too much already. Corona with correcting ribbon, here I come!
 
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