[Moderated]175 did NOT hit the South tower.

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Where is your evidence re,
1. the dogs
2. the power down(s)

You're the one who says these things happened. Why don't you support your assertions rather than just parrot them. Hum ? Find a source. Perhaps while looking you may find something that actually proves the opposite.

Silverstein admits it here,

That's not what I asked. Please type here the exact quote and tell me why you think it means what you think it means, because I'm pretty damn sure it doesn't.

Do you deny Giuliani had the crime scene swept up, or do you wish to contest the meaning of the word 'coincidence'?

Neither. Even were it true, it wouldn't be a coincidence.

Giuliani knew the towers were going to collapse, because he admits it here,
1 min to 1.04 min.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKHLok-RVNw
Here is the BBC saying WTC7 was down, when it's not,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88_tYTFUA2s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9CXQY-bZn4&mode=related&search=

I don't have sound at work. Transcripts, please.
 
I've been to both a slaughterhouse and a butcher shop. I don't really need your description.

The cow will fall at less than 9.8m/s2 because it still has some lingering support, including the energy required to bend the limbs and whatever lingering muscle support is available. Again, a useless analogy.

Your fascination with the slaughter process is not really adding anything to your insistence that WTC7 fell in any way resembling a cow in any situation. Technically the cow falling through the floor of the slaughterhouse is NOW in "freefall" and is moving at something like 9.8m/s2. It has still not been hit by flaming debris or burned for several hours.

Debatable but irrelevant.

If I jumped from the time of the first damage to the building I could have base jumped off the building a half dozen times, at least until I got tired of climbing the stairs. But starting from your "crimp"

Jumping from a height of 228m:
t=sqr(2*228/9.8)
t=sqr(2*23.265)
t=sqr(46.53)
t=6.82 seconds

Skydivers list 9-10 seconds as the time to reach terminal velocity for a human, so I'll disregard it. Drag calculations might bring this up a bit, but since it took more than 8 seconds for the penthouse to collapse into/through the uppermost story of WTC7 and more than 7 seconds for the north face to fall, it disproves your "Free Fall" claims.


And again, a slaughtered cow isn't in freefall until you drop the trap door, at which time it is still drastically unlike a building on fire for 7 hours and then collapsing due to structural failure of any sort.
You pointedly make no reference to this,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9CXQ...elated&search=
or the other three videos I posted.
 
I've been to both a slaughterhouse and a butcher shop. I don't really need your description.

The cow will fall at less than 9.8m/s2 because it still has some lingering support, including the energy required to bend the limbs and whatever lingering muscle support is available. Again, a useless analogy.

Your fascination with the slaughter process is not really adding anything to your insistence that WTC7 fell in any way resembling a cow in any situation. Technically the cow falling through the floor of the slaughterhouse is NOW in "freefall" and is moving at something like 9.8m/s2. It has still not been hit by flaming debris or burned for several hours.

Debatable but irrelevant.

If I jumped from the time of the first damage to the building I could have base jumped off the building a half dozen times, at least until I got tired of climbing the stairs. But starting from your "crimp"

Jumping from a height of 228m:
t=sqr(2*228/9.8)
t=sqr(2*23.265)
t=sqr(46.53)
t=6.82 seconds

Skydivers list 9-10 seconds as the time to reach terminal velocity for a human, so I'll disregard it. Drag calculations might bring this up a bit, but since it took more than 8 seconds for the penthouse to collapse into/through the uppermost story of WTC7 and more than 7 seconds for the north face to fall, it disproves your "Free Fall" claims.


And again, a slaughtered cow isn't in freefall until you drop the trap door, at which time it is still drastically unlike a building on fire for 7 hours and then collapsing due to structural failure of any sort.

This is what you call a fire,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIq6mNI0dzc&mode=related&search=
The building blazed for something like twenty hours, a proper blaze. Nothing fell down including a crane that was perched precariously right on the top of the building.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/spain_fire_2005.html
 
The building blazed for something like twenty hours, a proper blaze. Nothing fell down including a crane that was perched precariously right on the top of the building.

The truther law of equivocation. If ONE fire didn't fell a building, NONE of them can.
 
Apparently so. Please recall that just because someone is a General doesn't mean that they're above suspicion or stupidity. In fact, generals tend to be more gullible than most other officers, because of their detachment from the realities of the world and their deep involvement in the political stratum of military life. Generals do not advance through in-depth knowledge of the machines and processes of the military reality, but through in-depth knowledge of the workings of people - specifically, the politics and psychologies of making friends and influencing people. Like many politicians, the success of an officer has more to do with having a good show wife and knowing when to take credit and when to shift blame, than knowing anything about aircraft engines or munitions.

The non-commissioned officers have long maintained an unstated belief that, as one earns brass and goes up in rank, one has less understanding of the military (equipment, personnel, and processes) than they did before. The lowest private knows more about military equipment, often, than the highest generals. I've seen that one at work myself, when a three-star got into quite the argument with our own new private over the operation of the fire control computer - a model he had never seen or even heard of (the general). He was arguing about using paper tables and manual calculation devices while our own newbie private was attempting to explain the BCS and the FDDM (two semi-modern pieces of computer equipment)... The general then tried to pull the rank card (I'm a general and I know what I'm talking about!) only to have our own full-bird politely guide him into our vehicle to demonstrate the computer to the general.

Needless to say, the general left quite embarrassed. Sadly, our full-bird retired early due to pressure from the same general (who strongly hated him after that).

SO, yeah, I'd have to say your token general was lying and/or ignorant, just like you.
If we go along with your description of the way this General thinks, then isn't it all the more likely that he would go along with the government line?
The last thing he would do, would be to ruin his 'social position' by maintaining that OKC was an inside job.
He must surely have been absolutely certain of his facts before making his testimony to the Congress.
It appears that you have speared yourself with your own lance, so to speak.
 
You want MORE photos of one of the most-photographed events in history!? How many videos of Flight 175 do you require?

Will you ever attempt to read the material people here link to?

http://911myths.com/html/no_hijackers_on_the_manifests.html
Just the one will do fine. You seem unable to accept that the plane that attacked twr 2 is what is in dispute. A photo or vid of the attack plane hitting twr 2 isn't proof that plane was 175.
 
I don't think the woman's anguish was brought about by anything relating to OKC, Malcolm. By reverting to OKC, are you conceding that everything the Troof Movement says about 9/11 is a lie?

Bear with me, I seem to have a post or two crossed.
 
The truther law of equivocation. If ONE fire didn't fell a building, NONE of them can.

Fire alone has never dropped a steel framed building and never will. As I am sure you are fully aware. The fire just can't get hot enough. That's why stoves are made out of steel, because fire can't melt steel.
 
Fire alone has never dropped a steel framed building and never will.

This is not only incorrect, but irrelevant.

The fire just can't get hot enough.

Hot enough to do what? Melt the steel? Depends on a lot of factors, but steel can be melted by fire. Weaken the steel enough to cause a collapse of the structure that depends on its integrity? Certainly.

That's why stoves are made out of steel, because fire can't melt steel.

How do they find that steel that's in the shape of a stove, anyway?
 
Just the one will do fine. You seem unable to accept that the plane that attacked twr 2 is what is in dispute. A photo or vid of the attack plane hitting twr 2 isn't proof that plane was 175.


I actually agree with that last sentence. You see, one cannot possibly confirm that it was United 175, a flight number(just pointing out the obvious), just by looking at a few pictures/videos, without knowing any other information....

However, one can tell what type of aircraft it was as well as the airline, provided they are good at ID'ing aircraft. Like I said 10 pages ago, I am such a person and the airplane is quite obviously a 767-200 wearing United's "Stealth" paint scheme.

What do you think it was malcolm? One of the websites you linked to implies it was a 767-300.

Do you agree?
If so, do you understand the quandary that creates for your CFM56 claim?
If not, why not?
 
The building blazed for something like twenty hours, a proper blaze. Nothing fell down including a crane that was perched precariously right on the top of the building.
Nothing fell down? That building was part concrete, and part steel-framed. The steel part of the building completely collapsed!
http://www.debunking911.com/madrid.htm


Fire alone has never dropped a steel framed building and never will. As I am sure you are fully aware. The fire just can't get hot enough.
What about this bridge that was very recently in the news? It was framed with steel, and collapsed due to a fire from a crashed petrol tanker:
http://www.nbc11.com/news/13217764/detail.html

This absolutely proves your contention (that fire alone can't cause steel to collapse) wrong.
 
This is not only incorrect, but irrelevant.



Hot enough to do what? Melt the steel? Depends on a lot of factors, but steel can be melted by fire. Weaken the steel enough to cause a collapse of the structure that depends on its integrity? Certainly.



How do they find that steel that's in the shape of a stove, anyway?
why is it incorrect?
Why is it irrelevant?
At what temperature can steel be melted by 'fire'?
Do you know what a heat sink is?
The steel for a stove isn't found, it is pressed.
 
Fire alone has never dropped a steel framed building and never will. As I am sure you are fully aware. The fire just can't get hot enough. That's why stoves are made out of steel, because fire can't melt steel.


Then why do the steel structural elements in skyscrapers have fire-resistant material applied to them??

Also, do you understand that a steel structure doesn't have to melt in order to fail? Steel loses approximately 50% of its strength at 1100 deg. F, and the WTC fires reached temperatures of around 1800 deg. F.
 
I actually agree with that last sentence. You see, one cannot possibly confirm that it was United 175, a flight number(just pointing out the obvious), just by looking at a few pictures/videos, without knowing any other information....

However, one can tell what type of aircraft it was as well as the airline, provided they are good at ID'ing aircraft. Like I said 10 pages ago, I am such a person and the airplane is quite obviously a 767-200 wearing United's "Stealth" paint scheme.

What do you think it was malcolm? One of the websites you linked to implies it was a 767-300.

Do you agree?
If so, do you understand the quandary that creates for your CFM56 claim?
If not, why not?
I'm satisfied that it was grey and had no windows in it.
Whatever it was, it was not 175.
 
Nothing fell down? That building was part concrete, and part steel-framed. The steel part of the building completely collapsed!
http://www.debunking911.com/madrid.htm



What about this bridge that was very recently in the news? It was framed with steel, and collapsed due to a fire from a crashed petrol tanker:
http://www.nbc11.com/news/13217764/detail.html

This absolutely proves your contention (that fire alone can't cause steel to collapse) wrong.
You keep spearing yourself with your own lance.
Now you are saying that concrete survived for 26 hrs of fierce blazing in Madrid.
How come the WTC concrete turned to dust in 10 seconds?
 
You keep spearing yourself with your own lance.
Now you are saying that concrete survived for 26 hrs of fierce blazing in Madrid.
How come the WTC concrete turned to dust in 10 seconds?
You're being dishonest. You claimed that fire couldn't weaken steel to the point of collapse, and I gave two examples which prove you wrong. Now you're trying to pull a fast one and switch the argument to concrete. Yes, concrete performs very well in a fire, such as the one in Madrid. It doesn't do so well when it smashes together, because it's brittle, as has been explained already. You see large clouds of dust anytime you see a building collapse, not because of the explosives, but because concrete makes a lot of dust when it fractures.

Can you even attempt to be honest and admit you were wrong about the steel?
 
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