What Does One Say To This?

[Caspian88]

On another forum, we have an individual, who refuses to leave, who regularly posts comments regarding the supposed INTERNATIONAL JEWISH CONSPIRACY. It generally gets fairly annoying (especially considering the forum is on the official web site of Major League Baseball), but I never put anyone except obvious trolls on my ignore list, so I try to skip over these posts as much as possible.

Yesterday, because of the anniversary of the Allied invasion of Normandy, a rememberance thread was posted. Naturally, this individual was drawn to this thread, and he began to post some rather interesting statements. This is the main paragraph that led me to make him the first "poster" on my ignore list:

"When I first saw "Triumph of the Will", I was greatly surprised, because I had never really seen a long footage of Hitler except in small snippets buried in long tirades on the Na zis. But, I was shocked to discover that Hitler had no presence at all as a speaker. He was a mousy little guy with a shrill voice and a lame public bearing. So, how did he command a country of 45 million to commit mass suicide? That didn't make sense, and forced me to do a little more reasearch into who was really behind Hitler. It is then that the same cast of characters start to come oit like roaches in the dark. It was the same cabal that have brought you ALL the wars since the turn of the last century. It works like this: they invest heavily in a country, install a puppet, build up the arms of that country, get that country to attack a neighbor, finance the war by arming both sides, then get compensation for their destoyed equipment from the loser. Move to the next country, and start the scheme all over again."

Now what does one say to that? Should one even bother saying anything, or should we just ignore these individuals?

My apologies should this topic already have been brought up, as I haven't done a full search of the forum. Anyway, any information on how one defeats the INTERNATIONAL JEWISH CONSPIRACY rants, the WWII conspiracy theories (not Holocaust denial, that's a whole topic itself), or debate over whether we should even bother with these people would be greatly appreciated.

My further apologies for not posting a direct link to the thread, as I can't, due to my limited number of posts. If you're really interested, the thread title is "OT: Happy D-Day to everypone who served in WWII," on the general forum at the Major League Baseball web site.

 

[Unsecured Coins]

Good grief. Was this guy blind? Hitler spoke with a passion, he spoke with fury, he spoke with a furious passion! I was taalking with my grandmother about how life was in Pre WW2 Germany and she said that when Hitler rose, he would put the pride of your country in you when he gave speeches. After WW1 when Germany was draggin' ass in the mud, along comes this little dude with a corny mustache and he made you PROUD to be a German again. You think if Ben Stein was ruling Germany back then that WW2 would have went on? No! There would have been no second war because who is Ben Stein gonna motivate, seriously? My grandmother would go on for hours about how great it felt to have a leader that literally helped build that country back up, but a few pots of coffee later and she'd be telling you exactly how bat sh** crazy he really was.

The great thing about having a Hitler Youth veteran for a grandmother goes far beyond getting straight A's in WW2 history projects.

 

[332nd]

On another forum, we have an individual, who refuses to leave, who regularly posts comments regarding the supposed INTERNATIONAL JEWISH CONSPIRACY. It generally gets fairly annoying (especially considering the forum is on the official web site of Major League Baseball), but I never put anyone except obvious trolls on my ignore list, so I try to skip over these posts as much as possible.

Yesterday, because of the anniversary of the Allied invasion of Normandy, a rememberance thread was posted. Naturally, this individual was drawn to this thread, and he began to post some rather interesting statements. This is the main paragraph that led me to make him the first "poster" on my ignore list:

"When I first saw "Triumph of the Will", I was greatly surprised, because I had never really seen a long footage of Hitler except in small snippets buried in long tirades on the Na zis. But, I was shocked to discover that Hitler had no presence at all as a speaker. He was a mousy little guy with a shrill voice and a lame public bearing. So, how did he command a country of 45 million to commit mass suicide? That didn't make sense, and forced me to do a little more reasearch into who was really behind Hitler. It is then that the same cast of characters start to come oit like roaches in the dark. It was the same cabal that have brought you ALL the wars since the turn of the last century. It works like this: they invest heavily in a country, install a puppet, build up the arms of that country, get that country to attack a neighbor, finance the war by arming both sides, then get compensation for their destoyed equipment from the loser. Move to the next country, and start the scheme all over again."

Now what does one say to that? Should one even bother saying anything, or should we just ignore these individuals?

My apologies should this topic already have been brought up, as I haven't done a full search of the forum. Anyway, any information on how one defeats the INTERNATIONAL JEWISH CONSPIRACY rants, the WWII conspiracy theories (not Holocaust denial, that's a whole topic itself), or debate over whether we should even bother with these people would be greatly appreciated.

My further apologies for not posting a direct link to the thread, as I can't, due to my limited number of posts. If you're really interested, the thread title is "OT: Happy D-Day to everypone who served in WWII," on the general forum at the Major League Baseball web site.

First off welcome! Also I feel you pain as I have similar individuals on both a Motorcycle forum AND a Pro Football forum. Anyway pretty much the only thing you can do is ignore them or present them with facts if you enjoy watching them run around in circles a blather. I tend to enjoy it because my fiancee is a decendant of Adolph Eichmann and I'm Black. (for an extra push I mention that her ex was Jewish.)

 

[Quad4_72]

Now what does one say to that? Should one even bother saying anything, or should we just ignore these individuals?

My apologies should this topic already have been brought up, as I haven't done a full search of the forum. Anyway, any information on how one defeats the INTERNATIONAL JEWISH CONSPIRACY rants, the WWII conspiracy theories (not Holocaust denial, that's a whole topic itself), or debate over whether we should even bother with these people would be greatly appreciated.

My further apologies for not posting a direct link to the thread, as I can't, due to my limited number of posts. If you're really interested, the thread title is "OT: Happy D-Day to everypone who served in WWII," on the general forum at the Major League Baseball web site.

Ignoring them is usually the best. But if you must respond, just ask for evidence. Since they have none, you win. I honestly don't even understand the point he is trying to make though.

 

[Anti-sophist]

There is no arguing or speaking with this kind of zealotry. That is one thing I've learned. There is no piece of evidence, no argument, no data point, and no logical construction that can make someone disavow such a 'sacred belief'. It is beyond reproach. All other laws of nature will fold before this one, to the point of absurdity.

This is the one thing I've learned in my 9/11 CT adventurers.

 

[Caspian88]

Unfortunately, he posts lots of "evidence." I try not to read most of it, since it just starts to set me off. As a result, and because I'm not the world's foremost authority on conspiracy theories, I have a hard time pointing out errors in his "evidence."

 

[Brainster]

Welcome to the Forum. You have to gauge several things:

1. Is he just a troll, looking for perverse validation by how many people he gets yammering at him? Look at how he responds to substantive arguments from others.

2. Is he likely to find fertile soil for his seeds among the forum's posters? Probably not at an MLB board.

3. How willing are you to devote the time to real debunking of this stuff? There are times when no kidding I might devote four hours of research to something and discover that I don't really have an interesting post.

 

[Triterope]

On another forum, we have an individual, who refuses to leave, who regularly posts comments regarding the supposed INTERNATIONAL JEWISH CONSPIRACY.

Report it to the mods as a violation of the forum's anti-bigotry policy (I'm sure they have one). The "worldwide Jewish conspiracy" drivel is very thinly-veiled anti-Semitism. Collect some of his posts, and links to his most obviously neo-Nazi source material, put it in one well thought-out message, and send it to the mods.

If this person posts excessively, you could also report it to the mods on spam grounds. If he has a favorite source, like rense.com, count how many times he's linked to it and include that in your message.

If they don't ban his ass immediately, find another forum. The Internet has enough places to talk baseball that you don't need to spend time at boards that refuse to take out the trash.

Or you could reply to all his posts with lolcat pictures. Like this one. Conspiracy theorists HATE not being taken seriously.

 

[Brainache]

...
Or you could reply to all his posts with lolcat pictures. Like this one. Conspiracy theorists HATE not being taken seriously.

That's what I would recommend. Ridicule is an appropriate response to the ridiculous.
Try just replying with quotes from Groucho Marx, Jerry Seinfeld, Woody Allan, Larry David etc. That would really annoy him.

 

[Foolmewunz]

The answer is ....

D) All of the above.

I'd immediately show him up for being stupid.
"Dear Stupid - please at least read a basic history of the era instead of just watching old films. Wm. Shirer has excellent sections on the brilliance of Hitler's rhetoric and oratory. He captivated audiences."
Then I'd digress into non-sequitirs and parodies of the guy.
"So, Marge Schott.... what's that shortened from? And you think it's a coincidence they're the Cincinnati "Reds"??? Hmmm?"
And finally, go to kitten pictures or my new favorite, .... SnorkelPony.


Brainster's point #3, is unfortunately very true. There are lots and lots of unconnected dots and coincidences in this world, and if the loons are loose enough in their interpretations, you just can't really disprove some things. And you can spend hours working on it to find that your argument is all full of holes, too! In those instances, get out SnorkelPony or HeyLeroy's well armed feline!

But above all else, RIDICULE. It's an effective debating technique, and you feel real good doing it.

 

[strathmeyer]

What is "Triumph of the Will"? Without knowing I don't really have any way to judge what he saw of Hitler. Remember Hitler wasn't just the man who ran Nazi German, he had a long life before that. Hitler's first public speeches went very badly, exactly like what was described above. He realized his failure and adopted a very specific public speaking strategy. Wait until the audience was completely silent. Yell a lot. Stamp your fist.

 

[SpitfireIX]

Good grief. Was this guy blind? Hitler spoke with a passion, he spoke with fury, he spoke with a furious passion! I was taalking with my grandmother about how life was in Pre WW2 Germany and she said that when Hitler rose, he would put the pride of your country in you when he gave speeches. After WW1 when Germany was draggin' ass in the mud, along comes this little dude with a corny mustache and he made you PROUD to be a German again. You think if Ben Stein was ruling Germany back then that WW2 would have went on? No! There would have been no second war because who is Ben Stein gonna motivate, seriously? My grandmother would go on for hours about how great it felt to have a leader that literally helped build that country back up, but a few pots of coffee later and she'd be telling you exactly how bat sh** crazy he really was.

The great thing about having a Hitler Youth veteran for a grandmother goes far beyond getting straight A's in WW2 history projects.

My mother has a friend who grew up in Germany during that time, and she said exactly the same thing. She told of one day when she was in a train station when Hitler was passing through and decided to shake hands with everyone there. Her description of his popularity was "like a rock star."

 

[Foolmewunz]

What is "Triumph of the Will"? Without knowing I don't really have any way to judge what he saw of Hitler. Remember Hitler wasn't just the man who ran Nazi German, he had a long life before that. Hitler's first public speeches went very badly, exactly like what was described above. He realized his failure and adopted a very specific public speaking strategy. Wait until the audience was completely silent. Yell a lot. Stamp your fist.

His first public speeches may have been poorly attended, but he caught the eyes of his most devoted followers at that time. It wasn't so much that he changed his speaking style, but that he found a way to get audiences to attend.

Triumph of the Will is a famous film (for many years, in spite of its content voted to Top 10 Documentaries of All Time lists) by Leni Riefenstahl.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triumph_of_the_Will

 

[SpitfireIX]

Unfortunately, he posts lots of "evidence." I try not to read most of it, since it just starts to set me off. As a result, and because I'm not the world's foremost authority on conspiracy theories, I have a hard time pointing out errors in his "evidence."

The best Holocaust denial debunking site, bar none, is http://www.nizkor.org/.

If you find the amount of information there overwhelming, the following short introductions may prove helpful.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/genocide/deniers_01.shtml

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Holocaust_denial

If you could post a link to the thread in question, I'd be glad willing to take a look.

 

[SpitfireIX]

Or you could reply to all his posts with lolcat pictures. Like this one. Conspiracy theorists HATE not being taken seriously.

 

[SpitfireIX]

But above all else, RIDICULE. It's an effective debating technique, and you feel real good doing it.

A line I like to use against denier, which I freely admit to having stolen, is, "Er, pardon me, but your swastika is showing."

And I'll second the "you feel real good" part.

 

[SpitfireIX]

Triumph of the Will is a famous film (for many years, in spite of its content voted to Top 10 Documentaries of All Time lists) by Leni Riefenstahl.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triumph_of_the_Will

If you've ever seen Richard III with Ian McKellan, there's a part that is nearly identical to some of the rally scenes in TotW. I first watched Richard III with two friends, and all three of us had recently viewed TotW; two of us in our Hitler and 20th-Century Germany seminar, and the third in a film class. We were somewhat creeped out by how well the cinematography in Richard III captured the essence of TotW.

 

[Slayhamlet]

His first public speeches may have been poorly attended, but he caught the eyes of his most devoted followers at that time. It wasn't so much that he changed his speaking style, but that he found a way to get audiences to attend.

Triumph of the Will is a famous film (for many years, in spite of its content voted to Top 10 Documentaries of All Time lists) by Leni Riefenstahl.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triumph_of_the_Will

I think its inclusion can be attributed more to its legacy and status as a masterpiece of cinematography than to its merits as a documentary (which are few). Riefenstahl pioneered many filmmaking techniques with Triumph of the Will that are now ubiquitous in high budget movies, after all. Its imagery remains extremely influential even today, in particular the depiction of state power in the form of ceremonial procession.

 

[MortFurd]

On another forum, we have an individual, who refuses to leave, who regularly posts comments regarding the supposed INTERNATIONAL JEWISH CONSPIRACY. It generally gets fairly annoying (especially considering the forum is on the official web site of Major League Baseball), but I never put anyone except obvious trolls on my ignore list, so I try to skip over these posts as much as possible.

Yesterday, because of the anniversary of the Allied invasion of Normandy, a rememberance thread was posted. Naturally, this individual was drawn to this thread, and he began to post some rather interesting statements. This is the main paragraph that led me to make him the first "poster" on my ignore list:

"When I first saw "Triumph of the Will", I was greatly surprised, because I had never really seen a long footage of Hitler except in small snippets buried in long tirades on the Na zis. But, I was shocked to discover that Hitler had no presence at all as a speaker. He was a mousy little guy with a shrill voice and a lame public bearing. So, how did he command a country of 45 million to commit mass suicide? That didn't make sense, and forced me to do a little more reasearch into who was really behind Hitler. It is then that the same cast of characters start to come oit like roaches in the dark. It was the same cabal that have brought you ALL the wars since the turn of the last century. It works like this: they invest heavily in a country, install a puppet, build up the arms of that country, get that country to attack a neighbor, finance the war by arming both sides, then get compensation for their destoyed equipment from the loser. Move to the next country, and start the scheme all over again."

Now what does one say to that? Should one even bother saying anything, or should we just ignore these individuals?

My apologies should this topic already have been brought up, as I haven't done a full search of the forum. Anyway, any information on how one defeats the INTERNATIONAL JEWISH CONSPIRACY rants, the WWII conspiracy theories (not Holocaust denial, that's a whole topic itself), or debate over whether we should even bother with these people would be greatly appreciated.

My further apologies for not posting a direct link to the thread, as I can't, due to my limited number of posts. If you're really interested, the thread title is "OT: Happy D-Day to everypone who served in WWII," on the general forum at the Major League Baseball web site.

Ask your Neo-Nazi twinky how much German he understands. Oration is not just in the voice, it is also in the words. As well, the actions are also a function of the society. Hitler's public presence may seem poor by today's standards, but that's not to say he didn't embody a image that was popular at the time.

 

[Foolmewunz]

I think its inclusion can be attributed more to its legacy and status as a masterpiece of cinematography than to its merits as a documentary (which are few). Riefenstahl pioneered many filmmaking techniques with Triumph of the Will that are now ubiquitous in high budget movies, after all. Its imagery remains extremely influential even today, in particular the depiction of state power in the form of ceremonial procession.

I concur. I merely mentioned that it "used to be" on said Top 10 Lists because I haven't seen it on many of late. I think it's just a question of the film-going public having now gone through a couple of more generations, and not as many people remember it. ( If I'm not mistaken, the TT Documentaries generally included Nanook of the North and Triumph of the Will, usually in No. 1 and No. 2.) I can look at Triumph as a piece of film-making and appreciate it. Some of the shots of the torchlit night-time rally are incredible, and the shots/scenes of Hitler's arrival are legendary!