[Moderated]175 did NOT hit the South tower.

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malcolm kirkman said:
These maps that you are sure the hijackers can read. Who took those on board?
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You are not a pilot are you? Your ideas are wrong on all topics. To the topic of flying you bring a special ability of zero knowledg. You have a perfect record, of being wrong. I doubt anyone agrees with you on many points, even die hard truthers.

I could teach a 10 year old kid how to fly from a plane taking off at Boston, get in the seat after 25 minutes, and find NYC. It could be as simple as fly heading 135 degrees, tune into the VOR 113.1, follow the arrow when it locks on and fly toward that pointer by lining it up under the lubber line. When you see NYC, pick your target and fly towards it.

I did this in a simulator the week after 9/11 to show kids how the terrorist were not very special, just killers. Sorry to rain on you parade of madness, but 19 terrorist did 9/11, and it took no special skills except a contempt for life and being too lazy to work for their goals in a peaceful way.

Is flying easy? Indubitably. Are there things only you pilot can do and save you butt? Indubitably.
 
malcolm kirkman said:
• August 25, 2001 - Raytheon and the U.S. Air Force successfully auto lands a pilot-less FedEx Boeing 727 six times at Holloman AFB, NM using a military GPS landing system that will enable ground control to take control of a hijacked airplane and force land it.
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As a you are a Brit too:
I'm sure you're aware, that in the 1960's a BAC 1/11 was landed at Heathrow without the intervention of the pilots, this event was all over the news.

As you are a researcher of 9/11 facts:
I'm sure you know that Boeing carried out many crash tests in the 60/70's using remote aircraft.


These FACTS have NOTHING at all to do with 9/11.


As a you are a researcher of 9/11 facts:
I'm sure you've researched the modifications needed to an extant Boeing 757/767 series aircraft to achieve your implied result. They would be huge

Folks here have done that research, folks here work in that industry.

The Metaxa is kicking in now, I'd better go sleep it off.

:uk:

My less moderate comments have been... er, "moderated".
 
jsfisher said:
Oh my God, good point! Any hijacker attempting to bring a pilot's sectional map on board surely would have been stopped at the security checkpoint--maybe even shot. Then again, just maybe the hijackers may have been able to locate the maps the pilots themselves brought on board.

Barring all that, if for no other reason that it is just so improbable such maps could have been smuggled onto the flight, just maybe prominent land features, such as the Hudson River, may have been useful references.

...just a guess...
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In 2001 a GPS was not a lot smaller than a house brick. At the moment do we have our hijackers with boxcutter in one pocket, GPS in the other and flight plans down the front of their shirts. I do recollect photos of them with no jackets.
 
malcolm kirkman said:
Indupitably.
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You would be wrong.

Yes, rifle ammo will make cool holes through 1/2" T1 steel
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http://www.foprangeinc.com/range_newsletter_spring_2007.htm
What makes this "blended metal" frangible ammo worthy of note is its ability to cut through most hard mediums, such as steel plates, yet not penetrate soft targets such as tissue or even several layers of wallboard (August 2001, August 2002 AFJ).
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http://www.armedforcesjournal.com/blackwater/?s=2003_main1
Steel penetration was impressive, leaving a 3/8" diameter hole, while the .45 ACP and 9mm barely dented the 3/16" steel
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http://www.gunblast.com/Kightlinger.htm
http://www.sizes.com/people/body_armor.htm


Penetration is not determined only by the strength of the two materials. It is also determined by the ability of one material to absorb the energy of the impacting material.
 
As posted above, there was no difficulty in bringing either knives or navigational charts onto an aircraft prior to 9/11. I did both during that time with the knife being a 2-3" knife in a leatherman tool and the chart being a sectional chart for Visual Flight Rules navigation. All were well within sight of airport security as there were no rules against them at the time.

My knife was far more formidable than the utility knives used by the hijackers.

My sectional chart would allow even a beginner pilot to navigate to NYC using only navigational equipment found on the plane. No GPS would need to be brought on board. I have even heard most GPS units intended for ground use won't work at aircraft speeds.

I was in possession of all the tools necessary to pull off this crime with the exception of several accomplices. As for precedent for taking over a plane with a knife, here are two for you:
w w w .janes.com/press/pc990723.shtml

It's hard to understand your difficulty in accepting the official version of the hijacking. All it required was rudimentary flying skills (the hijackers had commercial ratings), a willingness to die and a security system destined to fail against this type of attack.
 
malcolm kirkman said:
In 2001 a GPS was not a lot smaller than a house brick. At the moment do we have our hijackers with boxcutter in one pocket, GPS in the other and flight plans down the front of their shirts. I do recollect photos of them with no jackets.
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You do realise, Malcolm, that nothing more than the time of day is needed to work out North/South/East/West. Also your watch will tell you the cardinal points should you be dropped in the middle of nowhere with just a cheeseburger. You just need to know how.

Get some education please.
 
apathoid said:
One of these is not like the others.....Okay, lets sort fact from fiction.



[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/99024525c71053c56.gif[/qimg] [qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/99024525c71053c56.gif[/qimg] [qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/99024525c71053c56.gif[/qimg]


:checkmark

:checkmark


:checkmark
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I would be grateful for a synopsis of the main point/points you are making in this post.
 
Redtail said:
Do you mean "Indubitably"? (Just for clarification)
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I am not familiar with that word. Neither am I keen to discuss roll around the values of the nucleus. First of all qualify the word 'stronger'. I will start with everyday usage. In other words, hypothetical notions of solid copper planes etc, do not occur in everyday life.
 
beachnut said:
You are not a pilot are you? Your ideas are wrong on all topics. To the topic of flying you bring a special ability of zero knowledg. You have a perfect record, of being wrong. I doubt anyone agrees with you on many points, even die hard truthers.

I could teach a 10 year old kid how to fly from a plane taking off at Boston, get in the seat after 25 minutes, and find NYC. It could be as simple as fly heading 135 degrees, tune into the VOR 113.1, follow the arrow when it locks on and fly toward that pointer by lining it up under the lubber line. When you see NYC, pick your target and fly towards it.

I did this in a simulator the week after 9/11 to show kids how the terrorist were not very special, just killers. Sorry to rain on you parade of madness, but 19 terrorist did 9/11, and it took no special skills except a contempt for life and being too lazy to work for their goals in a peaceful way.

Is flying easy? Indubitably. Are there things only you pilot can do and save you butt? Indubitably.
Click to expand...
Does your doubt that anyone agrees with me extend to the Pilots for 9/11 truth members?
 
Arkan_Wolfshade said:
You would be wrong.

http://www.foprangeinc.com/range_newsletter_spring_2007.htm
http://www.armedforcesjournal.com/blackwater/?s=2003_main1
http://www.gunblast.com/Kightlinger.htm[/I]
http://www.sizes.com/people/body_armor.htm


Penetration is not determined only by the strength of the two materials. It is also determined by the ability of one material to absorb the energy of the impacting material.
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A bullet has a pointed tip remember? Stilletto heels, wooden dance floors and wooden decks, kamikazes? I appreciate that it is quite some posts ago.
 
gmarshall said:
As posted above, there was no difficulty in bringing either knives or navigational charts onto an aircraft prior to 9/11. I did both during that time with the knife being a 2-3" knife in a leatherman tool and the chart being a sectional chart for Visual Flight Rules navigation. All were well within sight of airport security as there were no rules against them at the time.

My knife was far more formidable than the utility knives used by the hijackers.

My sectional chart would allow even a beginner pilot to navigate to NYC using only navigational equipment found on the plane. No GPS would need to be brought on board. I have even heard most GPS units intended for ground use won't work at aircraft speeds.

I was in possession of all the tools necessary to pull off this crime with the exception of several accomplices. As for precedent for taking over a plane with a knife, here are two for you:
w w w .janes.com/press/pc990723.shtml

It's hard to understand your difficulty in accepting the official version of the hijacking. All it required was rudimentary flying skills (the hijackers had commercial ratings), a willingness to die and a security system destined to fail against this type of attack.
Click to expand...
I personally well remember metal detectors at O'Hare, Newark, what is now Reagan, Dulles, JFK and La Guardia well before 9/11.
 
JFM said:
You do realise, Malcolm, that nothing more than the time of day is needed to work out North/South/East/West. Also your watch will tell you the cardinal points should you be dropped in the middle of nowhere with just a cheeseburger. You just need to know how.

Get some education please.
Click to expand...

You can do that in the rain, can you?
 
Is this just more of the, "no cave-dwelling primitives could have done this!!!" type thinking?

I mean... he's acting like the hijackers only spent five minutes planning this thing, like they were completely incapable of thinking ahead or planning or anticipating what they would need to do. Like this wasn't the big project of their lives, like they didn't devote YEARS to the task, like they didn't think they were doing God's own work. Like they were just sitting around the airport one day and just did it on impulse.

They learned to fly. They researched. They found a nation whose airline security was nearly non-existent. They were smart and creative and dedicated. We were lax and distracted and naive. 100% of the evidence supports the hijacking theory, 0% of the evidence supports any other.

What's so hard about this?
 
Arkan_Wolfshade said:
You would be wrong.

http://www.foprangeinc.com/range_newsletter_spring_2007.htm
http://www.armedforcesjournal.com/blackwater/?s=2003_main1
http://www.gunblast.com/Kightlinger.htm[/I]
http://www.sizes.com/people/body_armor.htm


Penetration is not determined only by the strength of the two materials. It is also determined by the ability of one material to absorb the energy of the impacting material.
Click to expand...

Thank you for that, will you now comment on this,
extension in mm = constant
force in Newtons
 
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