Botched Execution Raises ACLU's Ire

[fuelair]

Unusual, yes, but how is it cruel?

Good question.

 

[fishbob]

How quickly we forget. Everyone remember Terri Schiavo? Court order allowed her husband to have her starved to death? Nobody claimed it was cruel and unusual; in fact, there were doctors claiming that starving to death wasn't painful.

Therefore, "I sentence you to be starved until you are dead." Who could have a problem with that?

How quickly you forget. The poor woman had died long before, but modern medicine had kept her corpse animated.

 

[aerosolben]

Maybe I'm confusing it with 6 ways to reach first base

• Hit
• Walk
• Error
• Fielder's choice infield fly rule
• And the often forgotten dropped 3rd strike
• I guess that's only five here, too. I know I'm missing at least one in one of these two lists. Wait! Hit by pitch!

The missing one is catcher interference.

Hmm...what about being a Pinch Runner?

Pinch runner does not 'reach' 1st base, as such.

Balk?

Doesn't affect batter.

Force play?

That'd be an out.

Tell her she looks really pretty?

Fielder's choice.

 

[Darth Rotor]

How quickly you forget. The poor woman had died long before, but modern medicine had kept her corpse animated.

Need to pay for the five bedroom house and the BMW, doncha know.

DR

 

[UserGoogol]

How quickly we forget. Everyone remember Terri Schiavo? Court order allowed her husband to have her starved to death? Nobody claimed it was cruel and unusual; in fact, there were doctors claiming that starving to death wasn't painful.

Therefore, "I sentence you to be starved until you are dead." Who could have a problem with that?

If they could inflict massive brain damage comparable to that of Terry Schiavo in a painless way, then yes, that would work. (Ignoring that I think the death penalty itself is wrong, but that's a separate issue.) Of course, injecting the brain-damage stuff and then just leaving the body to die is a waste of time, so throwing some poison after damaging the brain is a more efficient way of doing things. Which is pretty much how lethal injections work anyway.

 

[Beerina]

Hmm...what about being a Pinch Runner?

The guy is already on base, so it doesn't count in that sense.

• Balk?

Lets runner go to the next base, but batter does not get to go to first.

• Force play?

I don't know if this is distinguishible from a hit. I also don't know if the fielder's choice infield fly rule (where the infielder chooses to drop the ball then throw the first base guy out at second, but they can't also throw out the guy at first into a double play -- that's the infield fly rule.)

So I'll drop that one too, leaving us now with five.

• Tell her she looks really pretty?

That would involve getting to a different "third base" or "home".

The missing one is catcher interference.

Ya!

So, the list is now:

• Hit
• Walk
• Error (a hit or foul that should have made an out but a defender goofs)
• Catcher interference
• Hit by pitch
• And the often forgotten dropped 3rd strike

 

[hgc]

How quickly we forget. Everyone remember Terri Schiavo? Court order allowed her husband to have her starved to death? Nobody claimed it was cruel and unusual; in fact, there were doctors claiming that starving to death wasn't painful.

Therefore, "I sentence you to be starved until you are dead." Who could have a problem with that?

For a person without a functioning brain, it's not painful. (I don't mean non-functioning brain a la Paris Hilton; I mean really no brain, as in Terry Schiavo.)

 

[Mephisto]

I'm opposed to judicial homocide in general,

Judicial homocide? What is that . . . death by same-sex relations with a lawyer?

 

[Mephisto]

It is not uncommon, even for a routine procedure such as a colonoscopy, for the nurses to make multiple attempts before they find a suitable vein.

Heheh, if we're talking colonoscopy, it's not the IV injection I'd be worried about.

 

[Mephisto]

There is some risk of decapitation when hanging overweight individuals, which could be considered cruel and unusual in the United States.

I understand completely (it could be traumatic to the witnesses), but if the aim is to kill the guy what difference would it make? He wouldn't feel it for long.

 

[BPSCG]

Lets runner go to the next base, but batter does not get to go to first.

Can there be a balk if there's no runner on base?

I don't know if this is distinguishible from a hit. I also don't know if the fielder's choice infield fly rule (where the infielder chooses to drop the ball then throw the first base guy out at second, but they can't also throw out the guy at first into a double play -- that's the infield fly rule.)

I don't think you have the infield fly rule right. When the ump calls infield fly, it means the batter is automatically and immediately out, and the runners can advance at their discretion. The purpose is to avoid "forcing" a DP by allowing the ball to drop and then throwing to second to get the lead runner. The lead runner would normally not try to advance on a short fly ball for fear of being doubled off the bag when the infielder caught it on the fly; without the infield fly rule, the infielder could double up the guy on first whether he tried to advance or not, by either letting the ball drop (if the runner was still standing on first) or catching it on the fly and throwing to first (if the runner had tried to advance).

Dunno how a fielder's choice and force play are counted for computing BA. They're clearly not hits, but the batter isn't out; I suspect they're not counted as an at-bat for BA calculation purposes.

• Error (a hit or foul that should have made an out but a defender goofs)
• Catcher interference
• Hit by pitch
• And the often forgotten dropped 3rd strike

Batter doesn't go to first on a foul.

 

[chulbert]

Unusual, yes, but how is it cruel?

I'm not sure how or why it's absolutely cruel, though I could speculate. Ultimately, however, I think current cultural standards in the United States generally consider death by decapitation an inhumane implementation of capital punishment.

Not the mention the mess an accidental decapitation would create. Egad.

 

[MilwaukeeMike]

I'm opposed to judicial homocide in general, but as long as they're doing it, why not firing squad for everyone? Is there a more reliable way to kill people quickly and painlessly.

Has anyone been done in that way in the U.S. since Gary Gilmore?

Far more torturous too. You could tease the inmates with a few blank rounds before the real one.

 

[strathmeyer]

I always find ACLU stances like this confusing, since it is because of the ACLU that we can't practice much more humane methods of execution, such as asking the inmate to turn around and shooting him in the back of the head with a revolver. It's even more odd because it's pretty much the only ACLU stance that I disagree with, and I know we live in an ACLU hating world.

 

[ponderingturtle]

I always find ACLU stances like this confusing, since it is because of the ACLU that we can't practice much more humane methods of execution, such as asking the inmate to turn around and shooting him in the back of the head with a revolver. It's even more odd because it's pretty much the only ACLU stance that I disagree with, and I know we live in an ACLU hating world.

You have to understand that the reason why the methods of execution are out of favor has as much to do with the appearance of the method as it does with effects the dieing will feel.

So it is to create the most peaceful scene for the observers.

 

[hgc]

I always find ACLU stances like this confusing, since it is because of the ACLU that we can't practice much more humane methods of execution, such as asking the inmate to turn around and shooting him in the back of the head with a revolver. It's even more odd because it's pretty much the only ACLU stance that I disagree with, and I know we live in an ACLU hating world.

Not that I disbelieve it outright, but do you have anything to back up the claim that the ACLU is responsible for evolving methods of execution? (Specifically away from hanging and firing squad)

Otherwise, I'll have to mark it down to another mindless anti-ACLU rant.

 

[aerosolben]

So I'll drop that one too, leaving us now with five.

While "infield fly" is not one of the options (as BPSCG said, the batter is always out), 'fielder's choice' is scored separately, and thus a legitimate 7th bullet.

Dunno how a fielder's choice and force play are counted for computing BA. They're clearly not hits, but the batter isn't out; I suspect they're not counted as an at-bat for BA calculation purposes.

Fielder's choice is NOT recorded as a hit, but the batter still gets the at-bat -essentially, the implication is he would have been out if the fielder had thrown it to first.

I have no idea how you're intended to use the term 'force play' in this context. Either it's a force play at first (so the batter is out), or it's a force play elsewhere, which means it's either a hit or fielder's choice. Either way, it doesn't have it's own category and is not scored separately.

The seven ways to reach first:

• Hit
• Walk
• Hit by pitch
• Error
• Fielder's choice
• Dropped 3rd strike
• Catcher interference

 

[Steve]

Just wanted to say that I am thoroughly enjoying the intertwining of death and baseball in this thread.

 

[strathmeyer]

Not that I disbelieve it outright, but do you have anything to back up the claim that the ACLU is responsible for evolving methods of execution? (Specifically away from hanging and firing squad)

Otherwise, I'll have to mark it down to another mindless anti-ACLU rant.

Didn't you notice that they haven't exactly been promoting safe execution practices? Haven't come up with a more reasonable alternative? (Obviously, these aren't their responsibility in the current situation, but their actions reveal a greater mindset.)

 

[BPSCG]

Just wanted to say that I am thoroughly enjoying the intertwining of death and baseball in this thread.

Then you should particularly enjoy How Life Imitates the World Series, by Thomas Boswell, perhaps the best baseball writer around. He probably loves baseball more than the average mother loves her own children - and it shows.