Botched Execution Raises ACLU's Ire

[BPSCG]

Funny, my vet can put a cat down in a matter of seconds, and it appears to be as relaxing and painless a death as any suffering animal could desire. So why is it allegedly so difficult to do with humans?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Cats aren't nearly as often intravenous drug users? Just a guess.

Also...

A batter may also be awarded first base if a fair ball touches an umpire or a runner on fair territory before touching a fielder. Rule 6.08 (d).

(The runner may or may not be out, however, based upon various things, like interference.)

 

[hgc]

Didn't you notice that they haven't exactly been promoting safe execution practices? Haven't come up with a more reasonable alternative? (Obviously, these aren't their responsibility in the current situation, but their actions reveal a greater mindset.)

I didn't know offhand, so I googled "aclu execution methods" and followed the first link. Wasn't hard at all.

What was your point about the ACLU again?

Montana's execution method may use too little of a pain-relieving barbiturate and is not necessarily conducted by a doctor, the Montana American Civil Liberties said Friday.

...

 

[aerosolben]

A batter may also be awarded first base if a fair ball touches an umpire or a runner on fair territory before touching a fielder. Rule 6.08 (d).

Good one, though it's "before touching a fielder or passing a fielder other than the pitcher" - otherwise it's a hit.

I don't know how these are scored, though.

 

[Kerberos]

1. I find this use of the word "torture" careless, having had military corpsmen and medics give me multiple jabs, frequently, when trying, and missing, veins during blood samples for the annual AIDS tests. A liar working for the ACLU, too bad, it does no credit to the ACLU to have such tripe spoken in their name.

And was the purpose of any of those jabs to kill you? If not I'd say it's not really comparable. If you aren't obsessed with making the ACLU look bad, it's much more reasonable to assume the "torture" was refering to the dragging out of the execution, not the mildly unpleasent jabs.

 

[Mephisto]

And was the purpose of any of those jabs to kill you? If not I'd say it's not really comparable.

Well, to be fair, and in Darth Rotor's defense, the injections were likely given by an enlisted man, and considering that he was an officer at the time . . .

 

[Art Vandelay]

The seven ways to reach first:

• Hit
• Walk
• Hit by pitch
• Error
• Fielder's choice
• Dropped 3rd strike
• Catcher interference

These seem like largely meaningless distinctions to me. Walk and hit by pitch, and arguably even catcher interference, should be considered the same basic category, IMO. Dropped 3rd strike should be considered an error, and fielder's choice should be considered a hit.

 

[BPSCG]

Walk and hit by pitch, and arguably even catcher interference, should be considered the same basic category, IMO.

Think so? Intentionally walking a batter is perfectly legal, and often a sound tactic. Intentionally hitting him with a pitch can get the pitcher thrown out of the game.

 

[timhau]

I'm not sure how or why it's absolutely cruel, though I could speculate. Ultimately, however, I think current cultural standards in the United States generally consider death by decapitation an inhumane implementation of capital punishment.

Not the mention the mess an accidental decapitation would create. Egad.

So... it's unusual, and cruel to sanitation workers?

If I had to choose a method for my execution, decapitation would be very close to the top. Certainly above electric chair, for example.

 

[aerosolben]

These seem like largely meaningless distinctions to me. Walk and hit by pitch, and arguably even catcher interference, should be considered the same basic category, IMO. Dropped 3rd strike should be considered an error, and fielder's choice should be considered a hit.

The reason they are distinguished in the fashion I used is because these are all currently scored distinctly. This is not a subjective argument about what the rules of baseball should be, this is an enumeration of what they actually are. A dropped third strike is not an error, and fielder's choice is not a hit.

 

[WildCat]

Maybe I'm confusing it with 6 ways to reach first base

• • Hit
  • Walk
  • Error
  • Fielder's choice infield fly rule
  • And the often forgotten dropped 3rd strike
  • I guess that's only five here, too. I know I'm missing at least one in one of these two lists. Wait! Hit by pitch!

There's one more way - catcher's interference. Though I guess this could be covered by error, since the cather will be charged with one in this case.

eta: oops, already covered. Should read the whole thread first...

 

[Beerina]

Can there be a balk if there's no runner on base?

I don't believe so. A balk is a feint by the pitcher to mislead the runner, to get the runner to take a few more steps towards the next base (which would be safe to do if the pitcher were actually in the process of beginning a pitch.) But if the pitcher then tries to throw him out, it becomes too easy.

I don't think you have the infield fly rule right. When the ump calls infield fly, it means the batter is automatically and immediately out, and the runners can advance at their discretion. The purpose is to avoid "forcing" a DP by allowing the ball to drop and then throwing to second to get the lead runner. The lead runner would normally not try to advance on a short fly ball for fear of being doubled off the bag when the infielder caught it on the fly; without the infield fly rule, the infielder could double up the guy on first whether he tried to advance or not, by either letting the ball drop (if the runner was still standing on first) or catching it on the fly and throwing to first (if the runner had tried to advance).

Well, the purpose of the rule is to prevent an easy double play. The runner on first cannot go to second on an infield pop-up, because the defender will catch the ball and throw him out at first. So he has to hang back at first.

But at that point, the defender could deliberatly drop the ball, then throw to second, who then throws to first, a double play!

But, the rule allows the defender to deliberately drop the ball and throw the guy out at second. They cannot continue to first for a double play. They might do this, typically, if the runner at first is a faster runner than the guy making the popup.

Batter doesn't go to first on a foul.

What about these situations:

• Defender touches ball as it comes down in foul territory, and it lands in foul territory.
• Defender touches ball as it comes down in foul territory, and it bounces off him and lands in fair territory.

Both cases are before it touches the ground for the first time. I presume, though fouls count as strikes for the first two strikes, that this would not count as a "dropped 3rd strike", which must be a "clean" strike dropped by the catcher.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Can there be a balk if there's no runner on base?

Sort of, though it's called a "quick pitch" and the result is a ball, unless the batter gets on base otherwise. (As opposed to trying to fool a base runner into thinking it's a pitch, the pitcher tries to fool or rush the batter.)

Well, the purpose of the rule is to prevent an easy double play. The runner on first cannot go to second on an infield pop-up, because the defender will catch the ball and throw him out at first. So he has to hang back at first.

But at that point, the defender could deliberatly drop the ball, then throw to second, who then throws to first, a double play!

But, the rule allows the defender to deliberately drop the ball and throw the guy out at second. They cannot continue to first for a double play. They might do this, typically, if the runner at first is a faster runner than the guy making the popup.

To clarify a little.. It's not for a single runner on first base, but a runner on first and second, or first, second, and third. It has to be two or more forced runners (that are kept on base because of the fly) that could be thrown out if the ball is dropped. With just one (forced) runner, there is no infield fly and anything goes, however I doubt you'd see anyone intentionally drop that particular fly ball. [Baseball theories withheld; I feel enough guilt for this derail.]

What about these situations:

• Defender touches ball as it comes down in foul territory, and it lands in foul territory.
• Defender touches ball as it comes down in foul territory, and it bounces off him and lands in fair territory.

Both cases are before it touches the ground for the first time. I presume, though fouls count as strikes for the first two strikes, that this would not count as a "dropped 3rd strike", which must be a "clean" strike dropped by the catcher.

Foul balls are never third strikes, right. Foul-tips are third strikes, but by definition, a foul-tip is caught and not dropped.

Also, I believe a fly is ruled foul/fair when it is touched by the player, relative to the field. Where it lands (after touching a player) doesn't matter. For example, a foul ball that hits a player and lands fair, is foul. A fair ball that hits a player and lands foul, is fair.

 

[Tailgater]

And was the purpose of any of those jabs to kill you? If not I'd say it's not really comparable. If you aren't obsessed with making the ACLU look bad, it's much more reasonable to assume the "torture" was refering to the dragging out of the execution, not the mildly unpleasent jabs.

I agree. They should have injected him 5 minutes after sentencing.

 

[Art Vandelay]

The reason they are distinguished in the fashion I used is because these are all currently scored distinctly. This is not a subjective argument about what the rules of baseball should be, this is an enumeration of what they actually are. A dropped third strike is not an error, and fielder's choice is not a hit.

At the risk of sounding pedantic, is this not an issue of the rules of baseball statistic keeping, rather than the rules of baseball itself? A batter can acquire first base through his own ability (hit), his opponents' incompetence (error/dropped strike), or by being awarded it (four balls, hit with a pitch, catcher interference). Any further subdivision is a subject matter for baseball statisticians, not baseball players, and has no effect on the game. It's like saying that in the NFL, a thrid down and fourth down conversion are different ways of getting a first down. But they both get you the exact same first down. What if I were to further subdivide the category of "hit" into "ground ball" and "home run"? Those are scored differently, too. And there's more of a pratical difference between the two and a hit and fielder's choice.

 

[aerosolben]

At the risk of sounding pedantic, is this not an issue of the rules of baseball statistic keeping, rather than the rules of baseball itself?

Yes. Is there something wrong with that?

A batter can acquire first base through his own ability (hit), his opponents' incompetence (error/dropped strike), or by being awarded it (four balls, hit with a pitch, catcher interference). Any further subdivision is a subject matter for baseball statisticians, not baseball players, and has no effect on the game.

You can simplify even further. The batter goes to first in danger or not in danger of being out - that's the only distinction that affects the game in play. And once the game is done, the only variable that has any effect is who won.

However, we track additional stats because they give more insight into the game, and (theoretically) have more predictive value. And because it's entertaining.

It's like saying that in the NFL, a thrid down and fourth down conversion are different ways of getting a first down. But they both get you the exact same first down.

And statistics are tracked separately for both.

What if I were to further subdivide the category of "hit" into "ground ball" and "home run"? Those are scored differently, too. And there's more of a pratical difference between the two and a hit and fielder's choice.

Except that fielder's choice is NOT a hit, and a home run is. Baseball record-keeping has rules, too.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Scoring is also very important because of fans that keep their own scorecards. Being popular long before the age of ESPN, fans enjoyed being able to practically recreate a game by way of their scorecards.

 

[BPSCG]

But, the rule allows the defender to deliberately drop the ball and throw the guy out at second.

No. When the ump calls an infield fly, the batter is immediately out.

And as Kilgore Trout pointed out, it doesn't apply with only a runner on first. There has to be the possibility of a force play at third.

 

[AgeGap]

...and the conservatives would moan that it was a French Invention and that we shouldn't be borrowing anything from the Frogs...

They could moan it is a French invention but wikipedia says otherwise. Oh wikipedia how mighty thou art.