Huh? Terrorists???

[Quad4_72]

I'd like to ask you politically skilled people in here if you actually believe in this terrorists "War on Terror" Hype in here.

While I know that Terrorists are real, I don't believe that the Hype justifies legislative limitations of our Freedoms. Quite frankly, I believe it's a political game.

I also don't believe in a Al Qaida threat that is more dangerous than a pin in the ass for the western world in general who don't use to poke into a Beehive. The current politics also portrays that it's far away from being a priority and therefore I refuse to believe the Hype, especially because no one here in central Europe is afraid of them beside probably the UK.

And I will follow the arguments for and against it for a while for politeness reasons.

September 11th, 2001. Over 3000 innocent people lost their lives. We have yet to bring the perpetrators to justice. So quickly some of us forget.

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

Al-Qaeda is not a threat to the USA, the EU or the existing world order in the way that Nazi Germany, imperial Japan or the USSR were threats. If the entire Middle East magically turned into a united Islamic nation tomorrow and started a national nuclear weapons programme it would still be decades away from being that kind of threat.

Even to individuals Al-Qaeda is only a threat in the way that being struck by lightning or getting a particularly rare cancer is a threat. Al-Qaeda can definitely kill you, but for US residents the odds of being killed by it are so low that they do not rationally merit extraordinary attention.

What I find most interesting about the views parroted by people like Marksman is that they cannot be content with believing that Al-Qaeda is opposed to US involvement in the Middle East for misguided reasons. That could be a perfectly coherent view with a bit of work. Instead they have to believe that it is absolutely nothing to do with US involvement in the Middle East and that it is all because the USA champions democracy and exposed ankles.

 

[Pardalis]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jlP4V5wyls

I think you only need to paste the number (2jlP4V5wyls) for it to work.

like this



Nice post btw, I completely agree.

 

[MIKILLINI]

How am I being silent?

Not saying that at all...it fits with "safe and obediant". Like this; Don't question the governments policies, be safe and obediant and trust them. But this doesn't mean your silence will protect you.
Or as Jefferson said: "No people can be both ignorant and free."

 

[Quad4_72]

Even to individuals Al-Qaeda is only a threat in the way that being struck by lightning or getting a particularly rare cancer is a threat. Al-Qaeda can definitely kill you, but for US residents the odds of being killed by it are so low that they do not rationally merit extraordinary attention.

You should tell that to the victim's families of 9/11. I am sure they would be more than happy to know that Al Qaeda does not "rationally merit extraordinary attention." Would you feel differently if terrorists had killed one of your family members? Your daughter or son? As Americans I think its essential that we band together to eliminate terrorism, but thats just me. The "Oh it will never happen to me just someone else." line of thinking is how people get killed.

 

[g4macdad]

Not saying that at all...it fits with "safe and obediant". Like this; Don't question the governments policies, be safe and obediant and trust them. But this doesn't mean your silence will protect you.
Or as Jefferson said: "No people can be both ignorant and free."

You must be confused go back and read my posts.

 

[g4macdad]

You should tell that to the victim's families of 9/11. I am sure they would be more than happy to know that Al Qaeda does not "rationally merit extraordinary attention." Would you feel differently if terrorists had killed one of your family members? Your daughter or son? As Americans I think its essential that we band together to eliminate terrorism, but thats just me. The "Oh it will never happen to me just someone else." line of thinking is how people get killed.

Yes exactly what supporters of this war think.

Fight far away from us, and we are behind you 100%.

"Oh it will never happen to me just someone else."

Cowards who cannot stand for their own rights.

 

[Quad4_72]

Yes exactly what supporters of this war think.

Fight far away from us, and we are behind you 100%.

"Oh it will never happen to me just someone else."

Cowards who cannot stand for their own rights.

Not quite sure what you are saying here...

 

[g4macdad]

Not quite sure what you are saying here...

"The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."

Capice?

 

[Quad4_72]

"The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."

Capice?

Nope. Still not following. Are you suggesting that Al Qaeda is not a real threat?

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

You should tell that to the victim's families of 9/11. I am sure they would be more than happy to know that Al Qaeda does not "rationally merit extraordinary attention." Would you feel differently if terrorists had killed one of your family members? Your daughter or son? As Americans I think its essential that we band together to eliminate terrorism, but thats just me. The "Oh it will never happen to me just someone else." line of thinking is how people get killed.

Surely you can see that this is purely an emotional argument, and not a rational one. How I might feel in a hypothetical situation is neither here nor there. Only facts matter, and the fact is that most people in the USA are far, far more likely to be hurt by lightning or drunk drivers than they are to be hurt by Al-Qaeda operations.

Why do you think it's essential that you band together with others to "eliminate terrorism", as opposed to banding together in an attempt to "eliminate" lightning, domestic violence, alcohol abuse, tobacco use and what-have-you?

Personally I think it's simply that people like forming herds to trample external enemies, and that this is far more fun for them than tackling more serious local problems.

 

[g4macdad]

Nope. Still not following. Are you suggesting that Al Qaeda is not a real threat?

Not as much of a threat as drunk driving.

5 times as many people die every year from drunk driving, as have ever been killed in a terrorist attack in this country.

The people in this country who use this irrational fear to steal your money, and get your vote, are a far greater threat as I see it.

 

[Axiom_Blade]

You should tell that to the victim's families of 9/11. I am sure they would be more than happy to know that Al Qaeda does not "rationally merit extraordinary attention." Would you feel differently if terrorists had killed one of your family members? Your daughter or son? As Americans I think its essential that we band together to eliminate terrorism, but thats just me. The "Oh it will never happen to me just someone else." line of thinking is how people get killed.

Of course you'd feel differently. That doesn't make it any more of a threat.
Having an emotional response to something doesn't change the odds of it occurring.

How are Americans supposed to "band together to eliminate terrorism"? How can I start eliminating terrorism today?

 

[KoihimeNakamura]

Just because it's not as great a threat as others does not mean we shouldn't act against it.

 

[MIKILLINI]

You must be confused go back and read my posts.

Not confused Gdad, in a way I'm agreeing with you...for instance..Shall we conduct ourselves as civilians who are not concerned of being terrorized...i.e. We shall just go and shop... as Bush said right after 9/11. Or shall we not question the procedure of our government since 9/11, continue to shop and show we have no fear. BUT do it while Bush is trying to keep us safe, he wants to keep us safe, But OMG these terrorists are everywhere...scaremongering.
WE must stay in Iraq, otherwise the terrorists will follow us here.. scaremongering. So We can be obediant and trust the government, no questioning their policy...but silence will not protect us.
Or be citizens and do what the founders of this nation proposed as to what makes an honest government; I choose the founding fathers spiriit, which I believe is what you mean about dealing with "terrorism".

"All authority belongs to the people... In questions of power let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief with chains of the Constitution." Thomas Jefferson

"If there be a principle that ought not to be questioned within the United States, it is that every man has a right to abolish an old government and establish a new one. This principle is not only recorded in every public archive, written in every American heart, and sealed with the blood of American martyrs, but is the only lawful tenure by which the United States hold their existence as a nation." James Madison (1751-1836)

 

[Axiom_Blade]

Not as much of a threat as drunk driving.

5 times as many people die every year from drunk driving, as have ever been killed in a terrorist attack in this country.

Obviously, this is a horrible national tragedy!
We must band together to eliminate all alcohol; and cars, too, just to be sure.

Let the War begin!

 

[g4macdad]

Not confused Gdad, in a way I'm agreeing with you...for instance..Shall we conduct ourselves as civilians who are not concerned of being terrorized...i.e. We shall just go and shop... as Bush said right after 9/11. Or shall we not question the procedure of our government since 9/11, continue to shop and show we have no fear. BUT do it while Bush is trying to keep us safe, he wants to keep us safe, But OMG these terrorists are everywhere...scaremongering.
WE must stay in Iraq, otherwise the terrorists will follow us here.. scaremongering. So We can be obediant and trust the government, no questioning their policy...but silence will not protect you. Or be citizens and do what the founders of this nation proposed as to what makes an honest government;

"All authority belongs to the people... In questions of power let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief with chains of the Constitution." Thomas Jefferson

"If there be a principle that ought not to be questioned within the United States, it is that every man has a right to abolish an old government and establish a new one. This principle is not only recorded in every public archive, written in every American heart, and sealed with the blood of American martyrs, but is the only lawful tenure by which the United States hold their existence as a nation." James Madison (1751-1836)

Oh sorry, it's just weird being agreed with.

 

[mr rosewater]

Obviously, this is a horrible national tragedy!
We must band together to eliminate all alcohol; and cars, too, just to be sure.

Let the War begin!

I'm in if you add cell phones.

 

[g4macdad]

Obviously, this is a horrible national tragedy!
We must band together to eliminate all alcohol; and cars, too, just to be sure.

Let the War begin!

No, live your life unafraid of others!

You never know when it will be over.

Your fear won't save you. It will make you weak.

 

[Undesired Walrus]

I think you only need to paste the number (2jlP4V5wyls) for it to work.

like this



Nice post btw, I completely agree.

Thanks. (BTW, I'm posting so early in the morning as I have to do this essay!). The thing about homegrown British Islamic extremism, is that I think we are all equally in the S*itter, the liberal side is pandering too much to blaming the government for their extremism, and the right-wing are simply calling Islam an evil religion that deserves no respect and should be completly cranked down on. Both ideals, are equally stupid. And simply allow the extremism to get more and more heated, as we are doing anything except going into these cultures and trying to understand all the ***** ourselves. We've become too obsessed with the politics of the situation, not the people.
I dont hate Islam, I dont think a muslim society is bad in the least, and not wanting to sound like one of those people, but I have had a lot of friends who are Muslim, and I can easily recognise myself in them.
It really concerns me that Britain seems to be the only country in the Western world that has homegrown terrorism in the shape of people willing to kill themselves and their own countrymen, and shows how stateless this brand of extremism is. It may be something to do with British culture of course, but I think it demostrates more accuratly that this hatred is not limited to a Islamic state or a training camp.
It's too easy to blame Islam as this root of this evil, and I believe it is a failure of society more than anything else.
But the problem with ideals like Olivers, and the problem with people on the other end of the spectrum, is that they wish to blame someone, like, in Olivers case, the US or western foriegn policy. His problem is that he is completly glossing over the people who are actually there, the Muslims, and they are degraded to being little kids who run about being upset with the big bully da government who causes all their woe. Whenever he gets in one of these rants I can hear them say "Yea, but what about us?".