What to do with prostitutes

Loss Leader said:
And this thread disappears in a puff of logic.
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I'm not sure I'd call it logic. :)

What's wrong with prostitution? Nothing, in itself. The only thing wrong is that some prostitutes are exploited. There is a problem with exploitation -- but not necessarily prostitution.

Should 12 year old girls be sold for their bodies? Hell no. That's child sex labor, and it's wrong.

Should a grown woman be able to sell her body? Hell yeah. That's her choice.

Should a grown woman be forced into a situation where she has to sell her body? Hell no. That, too, is wrong. I would gladly attempt to make it so that no one is a prostitute against their will. But if they choose to do so of their own free will, who am I to prevent them?
 
calebprime said:
I certainly hope that someone has pointed out that most prostitutes are miserable--in relation to what they would want for themselves--because it is usually a rough, demeaning business.
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Yes, people have pointed that out. But they've also pointed out that a) probably most McDonald's workers and Walmart cashiers aren't exactly thrilled either, and they make a lot less money; and b) barring coercion, prostitutes obviously prefer it to the other jobs available to them, or else they wouldn't be doing it.

As for their motivations, it's all about the money, pure and simple. The vast majority of prostitutes are in the business because they want to make money quickly, either because they have a drug habit to feed, a family to support, or tuition to pay. Some do enjoy the sex from time to time (at least the two I know have said so), but that's not why they do it.
 
Lonewulf;2634411 Should a grown woman be able to sell her body? Hell yeah. That's her choice. [/QUOTE said:
To paraphrase George Carlin, "Selling is legal. [Rule 8]ing is legal. So why isn't selling [Rule 8]ing legal?
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toddjh said:
Yes, people have pointed that out. But they've also pointed out that a) probably most McDonald's workers and Walmart cashiers aren't exactly thrilled either, and they make a lot less money; and b) barring coercion, prostitutes obviously prefer it to the other jobs available to them, or else they wouldn't be doing it.

As for their motivations, it's all about the money, pure and simple. The vast majority of prostitutes are in the business because they want to make money quickly, either because they have a drug habit to feed, a family to support, or tuition to pay. Some do enjoy the sex from time to time (at least the two I know have said so), but that's not why they do it.
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I don't know much about prostitution, so this seems interesting to me. I, for one, would be interested in your anecdotes. all irony aside.



btw, the more sober i am, the sillier i seem. you'll know when i'm toking up or something when i start to make sort of vague, logical arguments--in an attempt to sound reasonable.

and the amy wilson/DJJ posts were the equivalent of kittens all the way down.
 
toddjh said:
Yes, people have pointed that out. But they've also pointed out that a) probably most McDonald's workers and Walmart cashiers aren't exactly thrilled either, and they make a lot less money; and b) barring coercion, prostitutes obviously prefer it to the other jobs available to them, or else they wouldn't be doing it.

As for their motivations, it's all about the money, pure and simple. The vast majority of prostitutes are in the business because they want to make money quickly, either because they have a drug habit to feed, a family to support, or tuition to pay. Some do enjoy the sex from time to time (at least the two I know have said so), but that's not why they do it.
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one more btw. so we're clear. i'm the last person here who will ever argue that "normal" ought to equal "healthy" ought to equal "good". I'm libertarian on moral issues. Live and let die.

I do think that enormous aggression is directed at prostitutes, mostly by men, and that hostility is given licence by the shame that is the societal norm.

just so we're clear on, like, where i'm coming from, man.

and the song reference was to compare the exhaustion a truck driver feels with the exhaustion a prostitute might feel, which is similar in some ways to the exploitation a Wal-mart worker might feel.

but I don't think working as a clerk (I have) would mess with my head as much as letting the same asshats I despised as a clerk 8 me. that's a little more personal. as a clerk, I changed my name.

as a prostitute:

On the counter
By your keys
Was a book of numbers
And your remedies
One of these
Surely will screen out the sorrow
But where are you tomorrow

...

Down to Greene Street
There you go
Lookin' so outrageous
And they tell you so
You should know
How all the pros play the game
You change your name
 
I wouldn't argue that prostitution is very beneficial, at least not the way it exists now, but the point is that the OP can't defend what he's putting forth. Therefore this thread sucks.

It's like beating a dead whores.
 
Now that we've descended to bad puns, I wish I had a handy kitten picture...
 
Tanstaafl said:
Now that we've descended to bad puns, I wish I had a handy kitten picture...
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Kitten.jpg
 
toddjh said:
GIA, I'd like to ask you a couple hypothetical questions.

Imagine a future where we've eliminated poverty, drug abuse, child abuse, and slavery.

1. Do you think prostitution will no longer exist in this future?, and

2. If prostitution does still exist, why is it bad?
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If poverty is eliminated and education is available, I think that prostitution will become the call girl call boy type of prostitution. The cheaper sleazier type may disappear altogether.

Is the new system still bad.
Yes. I think that in the new mentality having to buy sex shows people not developing the social skills required to find sexual release without money.

Sex has traditionally been connected with love. This disappears or is denigrated by a sex trade.

Everything else in the world is a commodity. I would like to see man above this trend.

Perhaps a small scenario will show better.

You are in a bar looking to connect. Your there all night, you buy drinks, you dance you throw good jokes around, you are at your pick up beat.
Closing time comes along and you have not been lucky.
Oh well. Out comes the wad of cash to see if luck is with you.
Your social luck is now measured in dollars. Do you feel good about your evening of conquest sport?


Regards
DL
 
Greatest I Am said:
Sex has traditionally been connected with love. This disappears or is denigrated by a sex trade.
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Buddy, the sex trade is traditional too. It's been around for a long time, in every kind of society.
 
Loss Leader said:
This exchange more than any other convinces me that GIA has no underlying thesis or, at least, no ability to sort out his various beliefs and isolate one for argument.

In his comment he has mixed up deadbeat dads with abusive fathers. He has confounded the poor father whose bad parenting is a cause of adults entering the field of prostitution with the immoral male who frequents prostitutes. He has once again completely confused adult and children prostitutes. He has ignored Mark's point that some women might enjoy prostitution more than minimum wage jobs. And he has implied a phenomenon without any reason to believe it exists. Is there even one girl on the planet earth whose father's sex spending destroyed her dreams for college and forced her into a life of prostitution?


I mean besides Lindsay Lohan.
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Your last includes two conditions that I think I have kept separate but yes I am sure that some prostitute out there fits the profile you suggest.
Not many I am sure but some.
I am sure that many children have missed a better education because of the spending habits of parents, in sexual terms.
I am also sure that many prostitutes are there because of abuse.
How often the two factors combine? Take a survey. You will get numbers for all conditions.

Regards
DL
 
Greatest I am said:
If poverty is eliminated and education is available, I think that prostitution will become the call girl call boy type of prostitution. The cheaper sleazier type may disappear altogether.

Is the new system still bad.
Yes. I think that in the new mentality having to buy sex shows people not developing the social skills required to find sexual release without money.

Sex has traditionally been connected with love. This disappears or is denigrated by a sex trade.

Everything else in the world is a commodity. I would like to see man above this trend.

Perhaps a small scenario will show better.

You are in a bar looking to connect. Your there all night, you buy drinks, you dance you throw good jokes around, you are at your pick up beat.
Closing time comes along and you have not been lucky.
Oh well. Out comes the wad of cash to see if luck is with you.
Your social luck is now measured in dollars. Do you feel good about your evening of conquest sport?


Regards
DL
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Or perhaps you just want to get laid, without playing stupid games or getting involved in distracting emotional attachments. Sex and love should not be intrinsically tied together these days. So instead of wasting good time and money at the bar, you cruise to the strip, pick up the dish of the day, do your business, and move on. No 'will you call me in the morning' crap, no 'I thought you loved me' garbage.

Prostitution can be a good thing, if anal-retentive simpletons stop trying to treat it as inherently bad.
 
Lonewulf said:
Buddy, the sex trade is traditional too. It's been around for a long time, in every kind of society.
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True.

We have been abusing and demeaning ourselves for many years.
Buyers delude themselves into thinking that they are not demeaned.
Hookers are more honest.


Regards
DL
 
Z said:
Or perhaps you just want to get laid, without playing stupid games or getting involved in distracting emotional attachments. Sex and love should not be intrinsically tied together these days. So instead of wasting good time and money at the bar, you cruise to the strip, pick up the dish of the day, do your business, and move on. No 'will you call me in the morning' crap, no 'I thought you loved me' garbage.

Prostitution can be a good thing, if anal-retentive simpletons stop trying to treat it as inherently bad.
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A social life centered on the strip is every one's dream.
All children should be trained from birth to share your aptitude.
What a wonderful place to pick up our daughters.

Regards
DL
 
Greatest I am said:
A social life centered on the strip is every one's dream.
All children should be trained from birth to share your aptitude.
What a wonderful place to pick up our daughters.

Regards
DL
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It's cool that it's so easy for you to insult all these working men & women with your broad strokes of ignorance. Instead of talking about the actual issues involved with prostitution, you keep clouding it with all this moral high-ground ********. Quit confusing topics and pretending you've got some inside track on what's 'right' and what's not. If someone is ****ing for money, it doesn't make him/her a bad person. It does not mean something is 'wrong' with them. It does not somehow make them morally inferior to *you* in any way.

It does not mean they were abused as a child by their parents. It does not mean they are under the thumb of an opressive pimp. It does not mean that they were forced into the trade as children. It does not mean they are slaves to some group or individual. Are you clear on that yet? None of those things are a given. Are there child sex slaves out there? Absolutely, and it's a huge problem. It's also an entirely seperate subject from adult prostitution among two consenting adults. Are there some mean pimps out there (oh my gosh, some like on tv I bet!?!?!?)? Of course. Are all hooking men and women under the care of a pimp? Nope. Are all pimps opressive douche bags? Surprisingly not - no more than any store manager or owner, anyways.

It's ok to **** for 'love' apparently, but not just because we're human.

You're right, there is an education problem out there, and you're apparently as much a victim of it as these hookers you're so desperate to save from their awful fates.
 
Greatest I am said:
A social life centered on the strip is every one's dream.
All children should be trained from birth to share your aptitude.
What a wonderful place to pick up our daughters.

Regards
DL
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Who said anything about a social life? I'm talking about the basic need for sexual release. Too many morons - yourself included - associate sex with love. For those who are more mature and intelligent, this narrows down the available pool of sex partners considerably.

Masturbating is fine for some of us, but for a lot of people, it just won't do. So their options are to do without, which is a needless discomfort; to see a prostitute, which, while risky, is not inherently wrong; to lie to someone else, which is wrong; or to just rape someone, which is also wrong.

And, no, denying your sexual urges does not make you a better person; it makes you an idiot.

Sex is not itself a dirty or immoral act; so selling sex shouldn't be seen that way either. It's no different a service than a haircut or a shoeshine or a massage or any of a hundred other direct and personal actions.

You seem so desperate to prove prostitution wrong that at every given chance you deliberately conflate the issue with other side issues, such as drug trade, child abuse, exploitation, incest... but we see through your obfuscations. The problem here is that you personally find prostitution distasteful, and wish to compell others to share your moral indignation.

Well, pastor GIM, it ain't happenin'.

I have a daughter. If she comes up to me at some point after she's an adult and tells me she wants to be a prostitute, I'd have a long talk with her about being careful, about the possibility of taking on the legal trade in Nevada, and so forth. I'd ask her if it's really what she wants to do, if she's explored other options, etc. And then I'd tell her I love her and give her my best wishes for her success. And that's that.

If it makes her happy, I'm all for it.

And that's the thing: not every prostitute is forced into it; not every call-girl is the result of abuse or neglect or hard times. Some women do it because they enjoy it.

What next, GIM? Gonna start a thread on what to do about the porn industry?

Personally, I think every idiot carrying around an anti-commercial-sex stigma should be castrated or sewn shut and tossed on a small active volcanic island. But that's just me.
 
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