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JFK -- Here we go again

I've read through their report now. They really are drinking the Kool-Ade! I They are taking their subjective (if professional) criticism of the original bullet analysis (not subsequent re-interpretations) as the be-all and end-all of the single bullet "theory". Which as has been said, it isn't.

Even in itself, their criticisms don't seem to add up. The fragments form two distinct clusters, for one thing, one of many reasons that make more than two bullets unlikely.

This Kenneth Rahn bloke seems to have been dealing with this "NAA revisionism" as he calls it, for over five years. He's even name-checked in this new report! They dismiss his work saying it's based on Guinn's work and therefore invalid. Yet Rahn has pre-empted the criticism of Guinn's analysis; it's known that antimony levels aren't diagnostic. They seem to have fallen into the CT trap of narrowly attacking out-of-date work and proposing alternative hypotheses without any evidence to support them.

Some of these quick rebuttals are still valid, it seems to me: http://karws.gso.uri.edu/JFK/Scientific_topics/NAA/Review_of_RG/RGClaimsrepeated.html
http://karws.gso.uri.edu/JFK/Scientific_topics/NAA/Review_of_RG/History.html
http://karws.gso.uri.edu/JFK/Scientific_topics/NAA/Review_of_RG/RSclaims.html
http://karws.gso.uri.edu/JFK/Scientific_topics/NAA/Review_of_RG/RSpapers.html

PS WTF is this?!
The House Select Committee on Assassinations (1) concluded that there was a probable conspiracy, but one in which an additional shooter (likely firing from the Grassy Knoll) missed all limousine occupants.
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Is that true?
 
Yes. The conclusion was based on poor evidence (the dictabelt) that popped up in the end of the Comittee's investigations. The HSCA did a magnificent job of cutting through a load of CT BS, only to fumble the ball at the end with that comment.
 
ConspiRaider said:
Good point, FA, on the music angle. I've been talking about that for quite awhile - about how ordinary-looking, and sometimes downright ugly - musicians used to be. Probably was a motivator in them turning their creative focus on music. Their beauty was in their awesome talent and nobody at all cared what they looked like.

And now we've got lip-syncing runway models to do our singing and musicianing for us.

I got in just under the wire - just before MTV decided that everyone had to "watch" music, rather than experience it. Lucky boy, am I. I think I've seen a total of about 6 music videos in my life. Yee-hah! I can turn on a song or a piece of music and make up my own unique video. How awesome is that?
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I think you're mistaken here. This sort of stuff has always been a fundamental part of pop music. And it still is.

But if you go into other genres, you'll see nothing has changed. Look at rock bands, or metal bands, or any other genre other than the "pop" ones, and you will find ordinary or plain ugly people making beautiful music.

(You might not consider it beautiful, depending on your age and tastes, but it's genuine music; no lip syncing, written by themselves, performed by themselves)

-Gumboot
 
kookbreaker said:
Yes. The conclusion was based on poor evidence (the dictabelt) that popped up in the end of the Comittee's investigations. The HSCA did a magnificent job of cutting through a load of CT BS, only to fumble the ball at the end with that comment.
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And what was so weird, is that 3 shots fired is the most consistent and overwhelming recollection of the earwitnesses in Dealey. Even in the hour or two of media confusion in the broadcasts following the shooting, there was no wavering on the number of shots: 3.

Yet the Committee reverses itself on Oswald as lone killer: From what was projected by so-called experts as "4 shots" on the Dictabelt recording. And you could not even hear any shots on the tape. And as we now know, that recording wasn't even made at the time of the shooting, and apparently was at the Trade Mart.

I think the Committee was weary by that time, probably out of funding and just wanted to close the thing down. This was the quickest way to do it.
 
Here is a really great discussion of the dictabelt recording. Analysis that can be carried out and addressed. He does an analysis of the entire recording to learn what can be learned, not just the section that is claimed to be when the shots occured.

http://www.jfk-online.com/bowles.html

As a non-expert, given Bowles treatment, which effectively shreds the HSCA conclusions, I think the burden is now on the "acoustic evidence" supporters to counter Bowles claims.

Aside from all the stuff about telling the difference between a 3-wheeler and a 2-wheeler based on the engine, providing simple explanations for the doppler effect heard on the recording, still consistent with other things, like the bell.
 
I always refer to the new "pop divas" as "strippers that lipsnyc" because, when you think about it, that's pretty much what they do. Has anyone here seen that show where young girls are "auditioning" to be the next Pussycatdoll but pretty much all they do is glorified stripping (or "showing confidence" as they call it) ? What a travesty.

On JFK. Even if they turned up evidence of a second shooter, it still doesn't confirm all the conspiracy theories out there. It's possible, though not likely, that Oswald enlisted one other nutbag to help him do it. Only if they find a second shooter AND identify the shooter with the government will the conspiracy theories gain credibility.
 
Of course, the Pussycat Dolls were originally a troupe of strippers. So that makes sense.

How the hell did we go from JFK to strippers in 20 posts??!
 
ConspiRaider said:
Flawed as the Internet is - still the best source for real news, if you know where to look. TeeVee has forever lost its credibility as an outlet of objective reporting and analysis. That era has passed.
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Nonsense. This "golden age" you guys are talking about must be at least 40 years old. After all, the Oompa Loompas said that tv was bad in 1971.
 
I have vistited Daley Plaza and there is no way people would not have seen a second shooter if one exisited in the grassy knoll.

Gov. Connelly was shot and lived. He said all the shots that hit him came from behind. His wife also in the car said all the shots came from behind.

The missed shot did not disappear. A fragment hit a bystander. Could not have happaned unless there was a shooter in the general area of the 6th floor in the Texas School Book depository.

Various people in the depository heard the rifle being loaded and fired or saw a person firing a rifle.
 
Travis said:
I always refer to the new "pop divas" as "strippers that lipsnyc" because, when you think about it, that's pretty much what they do. Has anyone here seen that show where young girls are "auditioning" to be the next Pussycatdoll but pretty much all they do is glorified stripping (or "showing confidence" as they call it) ? What a travesty.
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Yep, agree. A travesty.

I'd brought this up yesterday, and today go to Raw Story and what do I find?
http://www.rawstory.com/showoutarti...om/stories/2007/05/17/music/main2824151.shtml
 
Belz... said:
Nonsense. This "golden age" you guys are talking about must be at least 40 years old. After all, the Oompa Loompas said that tv was bad in 1971.
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And we all know Oompa Loompas are 100% solid correct on everything always!:D
 
ConspiRaider said:
Yep, agree. A travesty.

I'd brought this up yesterday, and today go to Raw Story and what do I find?
http://www.rawstory.com/showoutarti...om/stories/2007/05/17/music/main2824151.shtml
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It really makes me feel for all the poor "plain Jane" young girls out there right now. I mean there was always pressure on them to be pretty to the exclusion to all else but this recent trend really makes it ridiculous. No wonder the number of under 18 girls getting surgical "enhancement" is going through the roof*.



*I should note that I considered, at the suggestion of a girl in college that turned me down, a "nose job" for a lot of years before abandoning the idea for mostly economic reasons. I guess there's a little vanity in all of us.
 
I once had a girl ask me, "Are you aware of your nose?" Well, I hadn't been, at least till that moment. Fortunately (or unfortunately, depending on how I look at it), she was able to look past my nose (rim shot) and became my first wife. And, for the entire 14 years of our relationship, "Are you aware of your nose?" was one of our catchphrases. Any sniffle or sneeze would bring it up.

God, I hate that woman. Just an afterthought.
 
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I actually visited Dealey Plaza yesterday. It was pretty interesting. The thing that struck me was how easy of a shot it would have been for Oswald. He had a perfect position where he could have seen the car passing in front of him, and then been able to get off 3-4 shots as it was pulling away from him at a target only about 30-40 meters away. Having shot for the military I would have had a reasonable chance at making a shot like that with iron sights, much less a scope.

I was surprised at the "grassy knoll", I was expecting this hidden area away from the motorcade route where a sniper could have hidden. It was a little park, only about 10-15 meters from the road. Anyone there with a rifle would have been obvious to dozens of onlookers, and given the crowds would have had a hard time getting a clear shot.
 
chipmunk stew said:
Why not? Isn't there some uncertainty about whether it was two or three shots?
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I think it's fairly conclusive that Oswald fired three shots. I suppose there's some contention whether two or three of those shots hit: the Warren Commission concluded that two did; the FBI concluded that all three struck Governor Connally or President Kennedy.

The Warren Commission's conclusion has been supported a ridiculous number of times since then; in addition to all of the scientific tests, the Discovery Channel's Beyond the Magic Bullet in particular almost exactly recreated the single bullet hypothesis' explanation for Connally and Kennedy's nonfatal wounds, as well as almost precisely recreating the kind of and extent of damage to the bullet found on Connally's bed.

The usual claim is that more bullets were fired: for instance the HCSA investigation agreed with the Warren Commission per Oswald's shots, but claims from rather poor evidence that another missing shot was fired from the grassy knoll, and Oliver Stone's JFK claims six bullets were fired, and is to the JFK assassination what The Pentacon is to the 9/11 attacks, except popular and widely believed.

I should point out that Tobin is by no means the first to dispute Guinn's NAA analysis as being conclusively exclusionary of additional bullets; see eg. Grant and Randich 2006 (which rebuts Sturdivan and Rahn's 2004 examination of the analysis), the consensus seems to be that such evidence is highly inconclusive and limited in utility.
 
Big Les said:
Of course, the Pussycat Dolls were originally a troupe of strippers. So that makes sense.

How the hell did we go from JFK to strippers in 20 posts??!
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Information - disseminators of information - lowered quality of disseminators of information - lower quality in entertainment performers - good bodies/faces replacing skills for performers.
 
Though it could have been fewer: Kennedy shot by Oswald, Oswald shot by Ruby, Ruby had club that used strippers.
 
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