Does anyone else back up William Rodriguez's story?

[CHF]

As I understand it, William Rodriguez says that he felt an explosion before the plane hit and basically says there were bombs going off in the sub-levels.

Well that should be a fairly easy story to corroborate, since he wasn't the only person in that part of the building.

Does anyone else who was down there believe that bombs were going off? I haven't heard of any.

Did anyone suffer injuries from this "bomb" that were in-line with what one would expect from an explosive blast?

It would sure seem odd that bombs were detonating in the sub-levels ("for what purpose?" one wonders) and only Willy realized it.

 

[gumboot]

The simple answer is no.

-Gumboot

 

[Skeptic Guy]

Like Gumboot says...no.

 

[CHF]

Another silly question: do twoofers find this stunning lack of corroboration the least bit odd?

 

[gumboot]

Another silly question: do twoofers find this stunning lack of corroboration the least bit odd?

No.

The fact that no one collaborates it proves that everyone else has been paid off, which proves it was an inside job.

-Gumboot

 

[jhunter1163]

Our resident scientist, R. Mackey, has pointed out that vibrations travel about 15 times faster in steel than they do in air. So what Mr. Rodriguez claims, feeling the vibration below him BEFORE hearing the explosion, is exactly what one would expect to observe in this situation (vibrations arriving before sound waves).

This simple and logical explanation is, of course, utterly ignored by Twoofers. Their whole construct is a bunch of coincidences, irrelevant factoids, misinterpretations, erroneous early reports, quote mining, and a liberal sprinkling of outright lies. Mix thoroughly, bake for five years, and presto! A movement!

Of some kind.

 

[Mobyseven]

[Slo_Mo_Dr_Cox]Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo![/Slo_Mo_Dr_Cox]

 

[gumboot]

Our resident scientist, R. Mackey, has pointed out that vibrations travel about 15 times faster in steel than they do in air. So what Mr. Rodriguez claims, feeling the vibration below him BEFORE hearing the explosion, is exactly what one would expect to observe in this situation (vibrations arriving before sound waves).

This simple and logical explanation is, of course, utterly ignored by Twoofers. Their whole construct is a bunch of coincidences, irrelevant factoids, misinterpretations, erroneous early reports, quote mining, and a liberal sprinkling of outright lies. Mix thoroughly, bake for five years, and presto! A movement!

Of some kind.

The steel vibration theory isn't even actually necessary. We have only Mr Rodriguez's word that the second noise he heard was the aircraft impact, and given he was in an office in the basement, his opinion on this matter is worthless.

Other survivors who were much closer to the impact report feeling the impact, but not hearing it.

I think the most logical explanation is that the second sound he heard was not the impact at all, but something else. I propose that it was fuel exploding out of another elevator shaft somewhere on a floor above him, possibly the lobby.

-Gumboot

 

[Alzke]

xxx.youtube.com/watch?v=QlEXoY1HCWI

Peter Jennings interviews a carpenter who was in a freight elevator which was blown apart at the basement levels

and the testimony of another basement dweller

(8:47 a.m.-9:50 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Engineer Finds Major Damage in Basement and Lobby of North Tower
Mike Pecoraro. [Source: Chief Engineer]Mike Pecoraro, an engineer who is part of the crew that services the WTC complex, is at work in the mechanical shop in the second subbasement of the north WTC tower when it is hit. When the room he is in starts filling with white smoke and he can smell kerosene (jet fuel), he heads up stairs with a co-worker towards a small machine shop on the C level. Yet, he says, “There was nothing there but rubble. We’re talking about a 50 ton hydraulic press—gone!” He then heads for the parking garage, yet finds that “there were no walls, there was rubble on the floor, and you can’t see anything.” He ascends to the B level where he sees a 300-pound steel and concrete fire door, which is lying on the floor, wrinkled up “like a piece of aluminum foil.”

 

[Alzke]

btw I'm agnostic on the CD theories. It's just hard for me to understand how jet fuel from the impact zone so many floors above could cause such massive damage as described ?

 

[uk_dave]

Cool, a steel and concrete fire door!

I wonder what the rating on that was....... 10 years?

 

[Furcifer]

btw I'm agnostic on the CD theories. It's just hard for me to understand how jet fuel from the impact zone so many floors above could cause such massive damage as described ?

rapid expansion of a combustible in a confined space

a 50 ton(tonne?) hydraulic press isn't as big as you think, i'm guessing this is the confusion. it confused me at first.

 

[gumboot]

btw I'm agnostic on the CD theories. It's just hard for me to understand how jet fuel from the impact zone so many floors above could cause such massive damage as described ?

When the aircraft hit the buildings they ruptured the elevator shafts, spilling jet fuel down them. As this jet fuel mixes with the air and is exposed to heat it ignites explosively. This is called a Fuel Air Explosive (FAE). FAE's create enormous overpressure that can literally turn a person to jelly.

The injuries described by people caught in these blasts are consistent with a FAE. They are not consistent with high explosives.

-Gumboot

 

[boloboffin]

The steel vibration theory isn't even actually necessary. We have only Mr Rodriguez's word that the second noise he heard was the aircraft impact, and given he was in an office in the basement, his opinion on this matter is worthless.

Other survivors who were much closer to the impact report feeling the impact, but not hearing it.

I think the most logical explanation is that the second sound he heard was not the impact at all, but something else. I propose that it was fuel exploding out of another elevator shaft somewhere on a floor above him, possibly the lobby.

-Gumboot

See, this is exactly why I love this board. That's the best explanation I've heard yet. What it was we may never know. Memory plays tricks on people for a variety of reasons, especially when people are trying to make sense of a confusing situation, and then going back over it later in their mind (Norman Mineta, anyone?).

You don't happen to have the names of those above-Rodriguez witnesses, do you? If they're not handy, they are probably in Gravy's PDF.

 

[R.Mackey]

btw I'm agnostic on the CD theories. It's just hard for me to understand how jet fuel from the impact zone so many floors above could cause such massive damage as described ?

Kilo for kilo, Avgas contains over ten times the stored chemical energy of TNT. And there were over 25,000 kg of fuel in each crash. That's why.

 

[Travis]

Also keep in mind that the service elevator fell from the 40th floor and probably hit bottom a few seconds before the arrival of the jet fuel fireball. It's possible he heard or felt the elevator hit bottom and then heard the fuel explosion coming down from above.

Just speculation.

 

[gumboot]

See, this is exactly why I love this board. That's the best explanation I've heard yet. What it was we may never know. Memory plays tricks on people for a variety of reasons, especially when people are trying to make sense of a confusing situation, and then going back over it later in their mind (Norman Mineta, anyone?).

You don't happen to have the names of those above-Rodriguez witnesses, do you? If they're not handy, they are probably in Gravy's PDF.

This post is probably a good starting point.

-Gumboot

 

[ref]

The burn victim coming from the elevator, Felipe David, allegedly also states something coming from below. Another survivor, Salvatore Giambanco thinks it was a bomb.

http://www.arcticbeacon.com/articles/13-Jul-2005.html

That day I was in the basement in sub-level 1 sometime after 8:30am. Everything happened so fast, everything moved so fast. The building started shaking after I heard the explosion below, dust was flying everywhere and all of a sudden it got real hot.

I threw myself onto the floor, covered my face because I felt like I was burned. I sat there for a couple of seconds on the floor and felt like I was going to die, saying to myself 'God, please give me strength.'"

Although severely burned on his face, arms and hands with skin hanging from his body like pieces of cloth, David picked himself up, running for help to the office were Rodriguez and others were gathered.

"When I went in, I told them it was an explosion," said David

Another survivor, Salvatore Giambanco, speaks of a bomb.

"We heard the explosion and the smoke all of a sudden came from all over. There was an incredible force of wind that also swept everything away. I remember hearing a scream of a woman, but I couldn't see her. I had just gotten off the elevator and I was standing by it with another man but didn't know his name.

"The doors of the elevator were still open and, I don't know why we did, but we both jumped back in maybe because of the wind whipping everything around in the hallway. "Then, suddenly, the elevator doors closed in front of us and we started going down. It all of a sudden stopped and I could see through the cracks we were between B-2 and B-3. We were both screaming and afraid. I remember seeing through the slot of the elevator and seeing other people running and screaming.

"Then water started gushing in the elevator and I remember saying, 'God, please help us.' At that point, I was resigned to the fact I was going to die

...

Reflecting back on his 9/11 near death experience, he added:

"I remember riding in the ambulance that morning and looking back, thinking it had to be a bomb.

"Later they told me it was an airplane that hit the towers, but how could it just be an airplane? I know all the newspapers were saying that, but it was just too incredible to believe if you heard and experienced what I did. It had to be a bomb."

 

[uk_dave]

"Later they told me it was an airplane that hit the towers, but how could it just be an airplane? I know all the newspapers were saying that, but it was just too incredible to believe if you heard and experienced what I did. It had to be a bomb."

Translation: "Though I'm not an expert in such things, my initial thought was that it was a bomb. I mean, the towers had been targeted before, right? And I didn't know at the time that a plane had hit, so to my mind it was anther bomb attack on the tower. Of course people tried to tell me afterwards that it was the impact of the plane and the jet fuel, but, you know, I kinda made my mind up there and then that a bomb had exploded and...well, like I said, I'm not an expert in these things, but it's hard for me to change my mind about this."

 

[ref]

One more, which actually only confirms the fire ball, rather than a bomb. This one by Jose Sanchez:

http://www.populistamerica.com/the_ghosts_of_9_11

Nobody has yet addressed the huge explosion that occurred right before the first plane hits as confirmed by Jose Sanchez, who worked 14 years for the American Building Maintenance Co. at the WTC. He confirmed details of a basement bomb-like explosion while Rodriguez and two CNN interns, Carolina Inojosa and Evita Zerebrinsky, interviewed victims and documented information for many people having trouble getting needed government assistance after 9/11.

In the 2002 taped statement, Sanchez recalls, "It sounded like a bomb and the lights went on and off. We started to walk to the exit and a huge ball of fire went through the freight elevator. The hot air from the ball of fire dropped Chino to the floor and my hair got burned. I said 'Chino, let's go we gotta get out of here.' But Chino was wounded and told me he needed help. I remember him saying that the hot air came with such force that it broke his leg. We finally went out through another exit and his leg and knee were both broken." Sanchez helped Chino to a parking lot where Chino was driven to help.