Libertarian Hero Ron Paul Blames US for 9/11

This reminds me of when the Iranians seized our Embassy.

Of all the press coverage over that event very little if anything was ever said about the fact that we helped crush a pro-Democracy movement there in the 50s and then propped up a Dictator because it served our needs.

Does that justify the holding of diplomats as hostages? I think not, but it is so typically American to view all aggression as ‘out of the blue’ and unprovoked.

We have had some very bad policy in the Mid-East; some prompted no doubt by our need to keep the Soviets in check. I have a hard time believing that anyone who reviews our history in this part of the world could possibly conclude that there weren’t many times we have acted with very little regard for the people who live there. Sometimes we’ve acted quite nobly, other times not so much so.

I know that there is no hope for solving any problem if you don’t first understand the problem and we should look at our foreign policy in the Mid-East to date objectively and with a skeptical eye.

Knee jerk whining that some one is ‘bad mouthing’ America every time someone is critical of policy is worse that childish, it’s dangerous and it’s getting very old indeed.
 
Blue Monk said:
Does that justify the holding of diplomats as hostages? I think not, but it is so typically American to view all aggression as ‘out of the blue’ and unprovoked.
Click to expand...

You might find this interesting:

Ever since the United States Army massacred 300 Lakotas in 1890, American forces have intervened elsewhere around the globe 100 times. Indeed the United States has sent troops abroad or militarily struck other countries' territory 216 times since independence from Britain. Since 1945 the United States has intervened in more than 20 countries throughout the world.

http://www.ilaam.net/Sept11/AmericanWars.html


 
Oliver said:
No, what I'm saying is: "If I shot your daughter, I shouldn't whine if you shoot my daughter in return". [/metaphor]
Click to expand...

And what did America do to deserve 9/11?

What did the 3000 innocent men and women do to the Middle East?
 
Blue Monk said:
I know that there is no hope for solving any problem if you don’t first understand the problem and we should look at our foreign policy in the Mid-East to date objectively and with a skeptical eye.

Knee jerk whining that some one is ‘bad mouthing’ America every time someone is critical of policy is worse that childish, it’s dangerous and it’s getting very old indeed.
Click to expand...

So we should blame society every time a killer murders someone?
 
Pardalis said:
And what did America do to deserve 9/11?

What did the 3000 innocent men and women do to the Middle East?
Click to expand...


Oh, come on, Pardalis. What did the estimated 1,000,000 innocent arabs do to the US who died during wars and embargos before 9/11? I don't buy this selfish, ignorant argument from people who only whine about themselves anymore - instead seeing the world the way it is. The US caused many times more deaths than all violent american deaths together.
 
Last edited:
Oliver said:
What did the estimated 1,000,000 innocent arabs do to the US who died during wars and embargos before 9/11?
Click to expand...

What estimate?

So the US is responsible for this "million people"? Every war ever fought before 9/11 is America's fault?

ETA: and since when does OBL speak for all the Middle East? When has he been promoted to upholder of justice for the poor and oppressed? I thought he was a crazy terrorist murderer.

Do you have a link to his blog?
 
Last edited:
Oliver said:
You might find this interesting:

Ever since the United States Army massacred 300 Lakotas in 1890, American forces have intervened elsewhere around the globe 100 times. Indeed the United States has sent troops abroad or militarily struck other countries' territory 216 times since independence from Britain. Since 1945 the United States has intervened in more than 20 countries throughout the world.

http://www.ilaam.net/Sept11/AmericanWars.html
Click to expand...
And how does this compare to any other major power in the world? Your list is completely meaningless given its complete lack of context. were there reasons for the interventions, or was it just because the US is evil?

And speaking of evil, funny the German guy starts another timeline at 1945, isn't it?
 
Pardalis said:
So we should blame society every time a killer murders someone?
Click to expand...

No of course not.

However, if I were to rob a mafia figure and rape his wife and he later tracked me down and killed me, you would be pretty naïve to conclude that I had no hand in my own demise.
 
Oliver said:
You still refuse to understand.
Click to expand...
Magwa understand quite well, Oliver.
US foreign policy lead to 9/11 - no matter if directly or indirectly.
Click to expand...
Directly and indirectly matters a great deal, Oliver.
And while were at the 19 Hijackers and OBL:
Click to expand...
Arabs and mostly Saudis
Why IRAQ and not Pakistan and Saudi-Arabia or just OBL himself - you know, the guys who actually WHERE involved in 9/11?
Click to expand...
Why are you asking me? I am not Paul Wolfowitz. I would get a kick out of planning and coordinating a half dozen B-2's, filled with 2000 and 5000 pound PGM's, in a planned strike on the black stone of Meccah in the middle of the Hajj. It would tickle me pink. That would send a message: you screw with us in the name of Allah, Osama, and Sadr Man, I take your freaking Allah Stone and turn it into gravel.

I don't see it happening any time soon, which is probably just as well for world peace.
The whole Iraq war leads to more terrorism - that was exactly what Ron Paul meant and this is what this thread is about, isn't it?
Click to expand...
No, that isn't what Ron Paul meant, it is what you mean, and you wish to use this as a springboard into Standard, Oliver Style America Bashing. I've heard this song before.

You are as transparent as plastic wrap, and as substantial.

DR
 
Last edited:
Pardalis said:
What estimate?

So the US is responsible for this "million people"? Every war ever fought before 9/11 is America's fault?
Click to expand...


Seriously: Let's say the Arabs would place an embargo on Canada and let's say that 10000 Canadians die because they couldn't get their required, foreign Medicine. Who do you think is the responsible for these deaths in this simple case?

I know you love to duck but this should be a simple question.
 
Pardalis said:
So we should blame society every time a killer murders someone?
Click to expand...

If you want to, sure, but doing so has nothing to do with what's being discussed in this thread.

Saying that US policy isn't atleast partially to blame for the USA being attacked is like saying that the Taliban policy of giving shelter to Bin Laden isn't the cause of Afghanistan being attacked. If we/our government attacks other countries for what we consider legitimate reasons, why can't other countries do the same?
 
Oliver said:
What did the estimated 1,000,000 innocent arabs do to the US who died during wars and embargos before 9/11?
Click to expand...
All the sole fault of the US Oliver? And far more Arabs have been killed by other Arabs than the US has ever done.

The US caused many times more deaths than all violent american deaths together.
Click to expand...
That's a ratio I hope stays heavily in our favor.
 
Blue Monk said:
No of course not.

However, if I were to rob a mafia figure and rape his wife and he later tracked me down and killed me, you would be pretty naïve to conclude that I had no hand in my own demise.
Click to expand...

I think the US is definately responsible for its policies in the Middle East, everybody is responsible for their actions. But I'll be damned if I'm going to say the US is responsible for 9/11.

Al Qaeda is.
 
Oliver said:
You might find this interesting:

Ever since the United States Army massacred 300 Lakotas in 1890, American forces have intervened elsewhere around the globe 100 times. Indeed the United States has sent troops abroad or militarily struck other countries' territory 216 times since independence from Britain. Since 1945 the United States has intervened in more than 20 countries throughout the world.

http://www.ilaam.net/Sept11/AmericanWars.html
Click to expand...

From that link:

World War II - 1941-45 - Military fought the Axis powers: Japan, Germany, and Italy.

Shocking. Osama attacked us because we fought in WWII. :boggled:
 
Oliver said:
Seriously: Let's say the Arabs would place an embargo on Canada and let's say that 10000 Canadians die because they couldn't get their required, foreign Medicine. Who do you think is the responsible for these deaths in this simple case?

I know you love to duck but this should be a simple question.
Click to expand...
The simple answer is that Saddam was solely responsible for his actions, which brought about the embargo. And he had plenty of money to buy food and medicine - he chose to build palaces and statues and secret police forces instead. He kept his population medicine-free and deprived because he wanted to appear to be the victim, and the useful idiots all over the world (including you apparently) swallowed it hook, line, and sinker.
 
Oliver said:
Seriously: Let's say the Arabs would place an embargo on Canada and let's say that 10000 Canadians die because they couldn't get their required, foreign Medicine. Who do you think is the responsible for these deaths in this simple case?
Click to expand...

Do you have a link to that estimate yet?
 
Darth Rotor said:
Magwa understand quite well, Oliver.

DIrectly and indirectly matters a great deal, Oliver.

Arabs and mostly Saudis

Why are you asking me? I am not Paul Wolfowitz.

No, that isn't what Ron Paul meant, it is what you mean, and you wish to use this as a springboard into Standard Oliver American Bashing Derail.

You are as transparent as plastic wrap, and as substantial.

DR
Click to expand...


BS! But nice sidestepping on inconvenient issues. You completely ignore to address what Ron Paul meant. What do YOU think did he mean by saying

"They attacked us because WE ARE OVER THERE".
"What would WE think if China would do this to us?"

He is right.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom