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How bad is ecstacy?

Cuddles

Penultimate Amazing
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Jul 28, 2006
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I was just looking at this chart, which rates ecstacy as the 14th most dangerous recreational drug. However, I have read before, and have never seen refuted, that ecstacy has never actually been proven to have caused any deaths at all. Is this true? Obvsiously people have died from contaminated ecstacy, but that is not the same thing. Is ecstacy, in itself, actually dangerous? There seems to be an awful lot of hype about it, but nothing concrete. Cynical as I am, it seems suspiciously like this is more a case of rebellious people finding a new drug and it being automatically banned, rather than it being banned based on any actual science. Does anyone know any more about this?

Edit : The chart is from a study comissioned by the UK government, published in August 2006.
 
Ecstacy negatively impacts the lymbic system. This is a bad thing. The effects appear to be cumulative. Try life instead of ecstacy. You can build on life. Ecstacy eats away at life.
 
bassett said:
Ecstacy negatively impacts the lymbic system. This is a bad thing. The effects appear to be cumulative. Try life instead of ecstacy. You can build on life. Ecstacy eats away at life.
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Anything resembling evidence? "Drugs are bad, mmkay" is not an argument.
 
bassett said:
Ecstacy negatively impacts the lymbic system. This is a bad thing. The effects appear to be cumulative. Try life instead of ecstacy. You can build on life. Ecstacy eats away at life.
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There is talk of using ecstasy as an anti-depressant for terminally ill patients. I think this is a great idea. What have they got to lose?

(A recent episode of "House" in which he faked terminal illness to get some "cool drugs" through a trial study probably referred to this.)
 
Marriage councilor's used to use it in their sessions.

When a girl died in the U.K. the Surgeon General got into big trouble when he said that alcohol and tabacco are way more dangerous.

To much of anything is not good for you. If we had places to test the quality of the product (like they do in Holland) we would have a lot fewer deaths.
 
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Cuddles said:
Anything resembling evidence? "Drugs are bad, mmkay" is not an argument.
Click to expand...
Ecstasy, MDMA, affects the system of neurotransmitters that affect mood, affect and thought. For a simple list of some of the effects you can expect, see
http://www.drdrew.com/Topics/article.asp?id=1136

In the article from Dr. Drew's website, I see that one of the things that MDMA is listed as affecting is serotonin. Serotonin is modulated by selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors or SSRI's. SSRI's appear to be implied in the mass shootings in schools and other psychotic acts.

On a side issue, what is mmkay?
 
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google drug vault....something like erwid (sp?) drug vault is one of the finest drug sources around.
 
I think some people have died because they simply over-heated...I'll check.
=====================
Of course, I have Shulgin's PiHKAL, but he's from a different planet from your average raver.

some definitions from the glossary in the back:

Idiot, n. A person of either sex who drives a car, motorcycle, or even a bicycle...under the influence

Macho, adj. This describes a person of either sex who pushes his limits too much...

Nibbling, v. This is a jargon term for running up, in small increments, the human evaluations of a new compound. (See also "running up")


If ravers wouldn't be Idiots who act Macho and try MDMA without first Nibbling it up, they would be safer...But adolescent risk-taking is what it is.

=============================

The stuff on the street comes from where--some friendly criminal in Checkoslovakia? Laced with all kinds of crap.

=============================

One anecdote: In the 90's, in Keyboard magazine (or maybe Electronic Musician) the author of one of the regular columns took Ecstasy and published his "insights". He was cheerful, but it sort of scared me.

For one thing, he decided that he was really left-handed after being right-handed all his life.

That was the only insight that made any sense whatsoever. The rest was gibberish--of an oracular kind. What scared me was that after he sobered up he still wanted to publish this gibberish in his column. That's why I'm not inclined to take the stuff....

=================================
another anecdote: There was a famous 8-up in one study that supposedly found brain-damage caused by MDMA. However, it was discovered that they were actually studying meth, by mistake.
=================================
From Generation Ecstasy, page 87:
..."Even without physical activity, Ecstasy raises body temperature; dehydration and nonstop dancing can push it as high as 108 degrees F...
======================
one conclusion...

pg. 88

Ecstasy appears to be relatively safe--at least compared to such socially sanctioned leisure activities as mountaineering, skiing, and motorbiking. Statistically, you're more at risk driving to the rave than being on E at the rave....

=======================
 
I know that anecdotes aren't solid evidence, but I did a lot of ecstasy at one point in my life and ended up with pretty severe seizures, pretty much every night as I was going to sleep, and every time my mind wandered during the day, for about 6 months after I did it for the last time. I still get very mild ones occasionally. This nasty little effect has apparently been reported by quite a few heavy users (or so I read on somewhere on the net). Whether this is brought on by ecstasy or a contaminant, who knows?

Although I don't regret doing it, I do agree with bassett - life is definitely better. E is a big heap of falsity. And those 6 months were pretty damn scary!
 
And then there's the question of risk vs. benefit. I haven't taken any recreational drugs (well, except alcohol) in many years, but when I did, MDMA was by far the most enjoyable. When used in moderation, I can see reasonable people thinking it's worthwhile even if it does have some mild health risks. It's certainly no more risky than some of the stupid stuff I've done under the influence of alcohol.
 
calebprime said:
One anecdote: In the 90's, in Keyboard magazine (or maybe Electronic Musician) the author of one of the regular columns took Ecstasy and published his "insights". He was cheerful, but it sort of scared me.
Click to expand...

I remember that article! It was Keyboard, and the guy was called Freff, or something.
 
bassett said:
Ecstasy, MDMA, affects the system of neurotransmitters that affect mood, affect and thought. For a simple list of some of the effects you can expect, see
http://www.drdrew.com/Topics/article.asp?id=1136

In the article from Dr. Drew's website, I see that one of the things that MDMA is listed as affecting is serotonin. Serotonin is modulated by selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors or SSRI's. SSRI's appear to be implied in the mass shootings in schools and other psychotic acts.

On a side issue, what is mmkay?
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(my bold)

I don't disagree that your average teenager taking MDMA is a bad idea. But they're not committing mass-murder.

Some of the agitation that younger people taking SSRI's seem to experience is from the side-effect of obsessive thoughts and from akithesia. I experienced racing thoughts and flight of ideas from taking Prozac--but the problem is--I'm that way anyway. It's very difficult to disentangle the SSRI effect from the depression/anxiety that people have to begin with.

But bassett, a hint: you're going to do better if you find studies that actually prove long-term damage. That's where the action is, so to speak.:D
 
Acute toxicity is rare. Of far greater concern is chronic recreational use and cumulative neurotoxicity.

It can cause a paranoid psychosis that is clinically indistinguishable from schizophrenia which may be reversible after a prolonged drug-free state.

Human studies that suggest that MDMA use (possibly in conjunction with cannabis) can lead to significant cognitive decline in otherwise healthy young people.
Here
Here
Here
Here
Here

One human study has also found, using single photon emission computed tomographic (SPECT) imaging, that heavy use of MDMA is associated with neurotoxic effects on serotonin neurons.

Loss of serotonin neurons could result in a number of neuropsychiatric disorders in which serotonin has been implicated, including depression, anxiety and panic disorder, and disorders of impulse control.

Basically, I'd recommend avoid using it regularly, or not using it at all. We may be incubating a time-bomb of old folk who are dementing well before they would otherwise lapse into Alzheimers and other disorders of cognitive loss.
 
Deetee said:
Acute toxicity is rare. Of far greater concern is chronic recreational use and cumulative neurotoxicity.

...
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Most useful post so far.

I think this gets to the real issue. How much is too much?

I think ecstasy is dangerous in chronic use.
 
toddjh said:
And then there's the question of risk vs. benefit. I haven't taken any recreational drugs (well, except alcohol) in many years, but when I did, MDMA was by far the most enjoyable. When used in moderation, I can see reasonable people thinking it's worthwhile even if it does have some mild health risks. It's certainly no more risky than some of the stupid stuff I've done under the influence of alcohol.
Click to expand...

I basically think the same thing, but sometimes I wonder...if I seriously brain-damaged myself, and lost 20 IQ points, would I even know it?
Maybe the only reason I think it was worth it is because I've forgotten what it was like to be intelligent. :confused:
 
bassett said:
Ecstasy, MDMA, affects the system of neurotransmitters that affect mood, affect and thought. For a simple list of some of the effects you can expect, see
http://www.drdrew.com/Topics/article.asp?id=1136

In the article from Dr. Drew's website, I see that one of the things that MDMA is listed as affecting is serotonin. Serotonin is modulated by selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors or SSRI's. SSRI's appear to be implied in the mass shootings in schools and other psychotic acts.

On a side issue, what is mmkay?
Click to expand...

Getting advice from Dr. Drew on drugs is like getting advice about your sex life from Dr. Laura. He does think that all recreational drugs are bad, and uses any evidence he can to back it up, no matter how shady.

Check out http://www.erowid.org/ or The Lycaeum. They'll cite their sources; Drew does not.

One important fact about Ecstasy/MDMA is that many samples are NOT pure. Because it is a street drug, many producers cut it in order to save money. It could be cut with anything, including caffeine, ketamine, or amitriptyline. So, the pill could be only 25% MDMA, or even 0%.

See http://www.ecstasydata.org/ for lab results of different pills.
 
Quiggly Wiggly!

Cuddles said:
I was just looking at this chart, which rates ecstacy as the 14th most dangerous recreational drug. However, I have read before, and have never seen refuted, that ecstacy has never actually been proven to have caused any deaths at all. Is this true? Obvsiously people have died from contaminated ecstacy, but that is not the same thing. Is ecstacy, in itself, actually dangerous? There seems to be an awful lot of hype about it, but nothing concrete. Cynical as I am, it seems suspiciously like this is more a case of rebellious people finding a new drug and it being automatically banned, rather than it being banned based on any actual science. Does anyone know any more about this?
Click to expand...

Particle chasing torsoless harbinger gumdrop of an infinite cuddly cuteness and other things, you should ever so know, patooty wooty womble butt, that hugs are better than drugs. Why does purple butt ask these scary questions. It's pretty [bleeep] bad. But then, who needs the laughriot, pole humping, cop kissing, wooless epiphany of MDMA when posts written by particle physicists nicknamed "Cuddles" asking about the rebound exist in the cold realityness. Yes.
 
SirPhilip said:
Particle chasing torsoless harbinger gumdrop of an infinite cuddly cuteness and other things, you should ever so know, patooty wooty womble butt, that hugs are better than drugs. Why does purple butt ask these scary questions. It's pretty [bleeep] bad. But then, who needs the laughriot, pole humping, cop kissing, wooless epiphany of MDMA when posts written by particle physicists nicknamed "Cuddles" asking about the rebound exist in the cold realityness. Yes.
Click to expand...

You're on it right now, aren't you?
 
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