PS Audio Noise Harvester

ES is under the delusion that people stop learning after they read, he has no understanding of having the need for a good foundation to start with. Also he reads articles written by people who have to support their jobs with writing BS or they wouldn’t have a job. The snake-oil products have such a big markup that it is hard for companies selling audio equipment not to look the other way and let the buyer beware, they just love the ignorant, self-delusional buyer.

Paul

:) :) :)

Also he hasn't got a clue to what the word "skeptic" means.
 
I'd say euphoric. Audiophiles rarely sound bright.
Audiophiles are smarter than skeptics because they try it for themselves. The skeptics just like to dig themselves deeper into their delusional darkness and then laugh at everything that doesn't match with their classical physics books written by men who are dead. The skeptics fail to learn new knowledge because the authors of their books can't write it anymore. So they make themselves believe those books are 100% true because then they don't need to search for the answers themselves because then they would realize they aren't intelligent enough. They like to read and repeat text and go out on the streets to "show off" their "knowledge". If someone on the street doesn't agree with them they just laugh instead, because it's a way to deal with their own delusional ignorance.

The longer time that passes the harder it is to get them back to reality. Some of them will keep living in their dream world because what else would they do? It's like they are building their "tower of flawed knowledge" higher and higher, and when the ground on which the tower stands on proves to be wrong the tower will collapse, so they do everything they can to prevent it from happening so they can keep building their tower higher. Once they are faced with the truth their just ignore it, why else does this forum have an ignore feature? Because this cult wants to keep as many skeptics here as possible.
 
Trying stuff is good. Being sure you aren't fooling yourself is much better. That's pretty much what the scientific method is about.
 
I should have read the whole sentence -
I don't care if it's true or not, I'm getting getting better sound no matter if it's placebo or not, and the skeptics are just jealous.

1. it's true and you're getting better sound. OR

2. it's not true, it's placebo, you're imagining a better sound.

And you don't care? And skeptics are just jealous?

Sorry, I'd gotten the impression they were trying to educate you ... but you just weren't listening. (Pun intended, I apologise)
 
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ES is under the delusion that people stop learning after they read, he has no understanding of having the need for a good foundation to start with.

Having a flawed foundation is worse than none at all, because it's harder to unlearn it later.

Also he reads articles written by people who have to support their jobs with writing BS or they wouldn’t have a job. The snake-oil products have such a big markup that it is hard for companies selling audio equipment not to look the other way and let the buyer beware, they just love the ignorant, self-delusional buyer.
I don't read articles, I have never even seen a Hi-Fi magazine in my whole life.

Also he hasn't got a clue to what the word "skeptic" means.
If you knew what skeptic was you wouldn't call yourself it. Nobody in this forum is a true skeptic, they are wannabees.
 
Audiophiles are smarter than skeptics because they try it for themselves. The skeptics just like to dig themselves deeper into their delusional darkness and then laugh at everything that doesn't match with their classical physics books written by men who are dead. The skeptics fail to learn new knowledge because the authors of their books can't write it anymore. So they make themselves believe those books are 100% true because then they don't need to search for the answers themselves because then they would realize they aren't intelligent enough. They like to read and repeat text and go out on the streets to "show off" their "knowledge". If someone on the street doesn't agree with them they just laugh instead, because it's a way to deal with their own delusional ignorance.

The longer time that passes the harder it is to get them back to reality. Some of them will keep living in their dream world because what else would they do? It's like they are building their "tower of flawed knowledge" higher and higher, and when the ground on which the tower stands on proves to be wrong the tower will collapse, so they do everything they can to prevent it from happening so they can keep building their tower higher. Once they are faced with the truth their just ignore it, why else does this forum have an ignore feature? Because this cult wants to keep as many skeptics here as possible.

And then the "no true skeptic" fallacy.

I think my cats have eaten my irony meter.
 
1. Skeptics tend not to be 100% sure of just about anything. Comes with the territory.

2. Jealous losers? Not me, ES, I have a volume control on my sound system - i turn clockwise and the volume increases, anti-clockwise and the volume decreases. I can hear that difference and I'd take a double-blind test on that claim any day. Care to do the same for your claims? For a million dollars?


Now you've really confused me.
Usually when the Jealousy word comes up the other person defends it immediately without thinking about it. Not because they know it isn't true, but because they don't want it to be true. Since they haven't had a chance to give it enough thought, how can they know if it's true or not?
 
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I should have read the whole sentence -


1. it's true and you're getting better sound.

2. it's not true, it's placebo, you're imagining a better sound.

And you don't care? And skeptics are just jealous?

Sorry, I'd gotten the impression they were trying to educate you ... but you just weren't listening. (Pun intended, I apologise)
Who are people going to believe? The one who hasn't tried it because he "knows" it is placebo. Or the one who has tried it and hears better sound but isn't sure if it's placebo or not even after he passed blind tests.

No matter what is true or not, the skeptics have a 50% chance to be wrong and make a fool out of themselves with all the thousands of posts. But if the believers are wrong it doesn't matter because they don't care. It's not hard to see that skeptics are the true believers because they want to believe they are correct.

It's simple, skeptics try everything to prove they are right while the audiophiles don't. If the skeptics would try it for themselves there's a chance they would realize they were wrong, so they never do that.
 
Why do you not care if your perceived improvement in sound quality is real or imagined? I really cannot understand this.
 
2. Jealous losers? Not me, ES, I have a volume control on my sound system - i turn clockwise and the volume increases, anti-clockwise and the volume decreases. I can hear that difference and I'd take a double-blind test on that claim any day.
On head-fi there's a skeptic (bigshot) who uses a Discman as his source because he thinks only the speakers matter. On this forum they think only the volume matters. They must be using Bose in their car, or even worse, integrated speakers in their LCD screen.
 
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Why do you not care if your perceived improvement in sound quality is real or imagined? I really cannot understand this.
Because I'm getting much better sound than before, I hear new worlds of low-level detail in the recordings.
If it's placebo it improves my hearing skills. It's the same thing with sports, do the pro athletes really care if it's placebo if they are winning gold medals?

Since all the details are gone when I remove a tweak it's likely it's not placebo.
 
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Because I'm getting much better sound than before, I hear new worlds of low-level detail in the recordings.

But why do you not care if the "new worlds of low-level detail" are real or imagined?

do the pro athletes really care if it's placebo if they are winning gold medals?

Pro athletes winning gold medals have demonstrably won gold medals. You may or may not hear a difference in sound - demonstrated to no-one - and you don't even care if the difference in sound is real or imagined. Your arguement seems completely illogical to me.
 
But why do you not care if the "new worlds of low-level detail" are real or imagined?
Because the detail wasn't there before no matter how hard I focused on finding it. When I did a tweak I heard new detail I never heard before. When I removed the tweak the new detail was gone, I couldn't hear it anymore. It's very simple.
Add tweak = more detail.
Remove tweak = less detail.

As long as you get more detail it doesn't matter how you get it.

Pro athletes winning gold medals have demonstrably won gold medals. You may or may not hear a difference in sound - demonstrated to no-one - and you don't even care if the difference in sound is real or imagined. Your arguement seems completely illogical to me.
So you say you know what the pro level is all about just by reading about it instead of experiencing it? It's not hard to see who is illogical here.
BTW. I'm pro myself and I know all about the beginners and how they think, they know nothing at all, even the amateurs know nothing. It's the same with this thread, the skeptics know nothing about audio, they just read about it in books. Then they laugh when audiophiles use different terms to describe something subtle. All athletes use silly terms because it helps them remember.

When skeptics memorize numbers they memorize them one at a time. But the experienced believer memorizes all the numbers in one image. Audiophiles use many memorization techniques when they listen to different flavors, most of them describe it in different colors.
 
Because the detail wasn't there before no matter how hard I focused on finding it. When I did a tweak I heard new detail I never heard before. When I removed the tweak the new detail was gone, I couldn't hear it anymore. It's very simple.
Add tweak = more detail.
Remove tweak = less detail.

As long as you get more detail it doesn't matter how you get it.

1. You add a tweak and hear a real improvement. OR

2. You add a tweak and you imagine you hear an improvement.

But you don't care which is true?

If you buy gas for your car do care if that gas is real or imagined? It seems I'm really struggling to get my point across to you - your answers make no sense to me.

So you say you know what the pro level is all about

Where did I say that? Athletes winning gold medals can be verified in a number of ways. Your claims about improved sound quality can be verified by simple double-blind tests. Ever done any DBT? I would guess not as you don't care whether the improved sound quality is real or imagined.

But the experienced believer memorizes all the numbers in one image.

So it's all about belief? You believe you can hear a difference. You don't care if that difference is real or imagined.

Seriously, do some double blind tests. You may be very surprised at the results.
 
Originally Posted by Paulhoff
Also he reads articles written by people who have to support their jobs with writing BS or they wouldn’t have a job. The snake-oil products have such a big markup that it is hard for companies selling audio equipment not to look the other way and let the buyer beware, they just love the ignorant, self-delusional buyer.

I don't read articles, I have never even seen a Hi-Fi magazine in my whole life.
Sooo, it wasn't you that posted this on the head-fi forum?

A reviewer says this player has perfect bass, I agree

Read the review and it makes sense

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2009761&postcount=1
I stumbled across the excellent review by Jason Victor Serinus and bought a couple used Nordost Vishnus a week later

I'm surprised that I have only found one review of this power cord online.
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2010948&postcount=8

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...es-7-2004.html
Quote:
Over the course of a month of use, the sound I have heard through the Valhallas progressed from flat, dull, and dry, to shiny bright albeit monochromatic to its current level. I remember at one point lamenting that while the top was as transparent and vibrant as all get-out, there was precious little body and bass. As you will read below, that is NOT the case once these power cables are broken-in. Had I drawn conclusions based on my initial experiences with the cabling, you would be reading a very different review.

What part of "I don't read articles am I misunderstanding here?

Oh and your diatribe running down engineers and book lernin' is a bit inconsistent as well - unless they reinforce your beliefs, it seems:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1494670&postcount=1
5) A glass Toslink is not required which has been confirmed by Benchmark engineers. So a cheap Toslink will do fine.




 
Lets look that the bottom-line, and that is the human mind and its great need to have some kind of control over things.

In audio some 30 years ago and more, they had all kinds of things to play with. The turntable was most likely the favorite audio play toy. You could change the audio cartridge, play with the balancing of the audio cartridge, to get those right grams of force. Play with the anti-skate adjustment. Adjusting the pitch of the cartridge, find the right pad to absorb unwanted vibrations on the turntable. Boy, what a good play toy the turntable is and or was.

I think that a lot of the Woo-woo stuff coming out now is filling in the void of nothing for the audiophile to play with. True there was a lot of Woo-woo stuff back than, but the void is much bigger now because there so little one can do that someone can really change to get real results. You don't have to mess with the CD, amp, preamp, tuner, and the speakers. But some people just have to get into things, even when there is nothing wrong to fix in the first place.

So now we have the CD player, there is nothing one can really play with.

My audiophile friend came to my house one day and announced to me that he had finally solved the CD sound problem. He whipped out the infamous green marker pen and a CD mark with green on the edges. He said that is will fix the problem with the CD player misreading the CD. And then he proceeded to put the CD in my player and played the CD and then looked at me with a big smile and said “See all the high frequency hash is gone”. I just looked at him and said “CDs just don’t work like that………”. But no matter how I told him how they really worked, it was no use. Well I have the same CD and sat him down and put in the CD. See he howled, “Now there is all that hash and trash in the sound”, and then I showed him my CD. It was his CD that was playing. Will we did this about 40 times, sometimes I would put in the CD he wanted and something I did the switch on him, finally he realized that he didn’t hear it, but of course later he said that it was his hearing that was getting tried, but eventually the green marker went away, but he still believes in a lot of Woo-woo, he just needs to.

So I said to an audiophile friend of mine after that test "Look, we will put a lot of knobs on the front of your CD player, they won’t do any thing, but it will give you something to adjust and play with anyway.

I will not even get into making your own speakers, and playing with the tube amps.
However the need to mess with audio equipment will never go away, it just comes back in different forms, but not always in legitimate ways.

Paul

:) :) :)

I know that ES will come back with something that does make sense, but he needs to.
 
Lets look that the bottom-line, and that is the human mind and its great need to have some kind of control over things.

In audio some 30 years ago and more, they had all kinds of things to play with. The turntable was most likely the favorite audio play toy. You could change the audio cartridge, play with the balancing of the audio cartridge, to get those right grams of force. Play with the anti-skate adjustment. Adjusting the pitch of the cartridge, find the right pad to absorb unwanted vibrations on the turntable. Boy, what a good play toy the turntable is and or was.

I think that a lot of the Woo-woo stuff coming out now is filling in the void of nothing for the audiophile to play with. True there was a lot of Woo-woo stuff back than, but the void is much bigger now because there so little one can do that someone can really change to get real results. You don't have to mess with the CD, amp, preamp, tuner, and the speakers. But some people just have to get into things, even when there is nothing wrong to fix in the first place.


This is a good point. Of course, you can trace it back farther than that. The guy tinkering with his turntable was in turn just a feeble imitation of an actual musician who must train, study, practice, and "tinker" with technique as well as, in most cases, with the musical instrument itself, in order to produce sound that is, according to the consensus of people with normal perception of tonality, adequate or better.

Most people who play the violin have little need for, or possibility of perceiving any benefit from, tweaks based on woo. It's hard enough to play the right notes at the right tempo, and almost everyone can easily tell whether you're playing the right notes at the right tempo or not. If the novice gets the idea that wearing the right crystals will improve his sound more than, say, more practice with fingering, his neighbors (if not his own ears) will quickly set him straight on that point. It takes quite a bit of effort just the get to the point where properly tuning the instrument -- about the most basic tweaking one can imagine, short of putting rosin on the bow -- can make much improvement in how the music sounds. Those who master that level can then worry about deeper musical qualities, such as expressing the desired emotional tone, calling for a nearly endless succession of more advanced techniques. Most people (not as many as before, but still a lot of people) will still be able to tell the difference. Those who master that much might then begin to benefit from, say, playing a Stradivarius or Amati, and some -- perhaps a small minority but a good violinist will have a large audience so a small minority is still many people -- some listeners will still, provably, be able to tell the difference. So much real effort goes into achieving and maintaining that level of mastery that there's little room for much woo to enter into it. (Luck charms, sure; even maestros don't have control over every aspect of their performance; the audience might be in a bad mood; a muscle twitch might sound a bad note; an accompanyist might be off tempo. But what violin maestro, given a choice between a perfectly tuned Amati and a student violin that's been carefully stored in properly oriented crystals to align its quantum karma, would choose to play the latter?)

The contempt for knowledge from books, experts, experienced teachers, etc. is a possible sustainable attitude only when the endeavor is efortless and its success or failure is irrelevant or not definable at all. Such as, operating a modern playback system for recorded audio.

Let's see, what was my own most recent use of "book learning?" Oh yeah, I'm rewiring several rooms of my house and I read some books on how to do it properly and consulted some professionals on some of the relevant specifics. I suppose hands-on experience would be a better way to learn the real cosmic truth about 120V alternating current, but unfortunately I can't afford to burn several houses down or electrocute myself several times to discover it for myself by trial and error. It appears that when the results actually matter, books, experts, and teachers matter too.

The bottom line is that no one, not even ES himself, cares whether his audio is perfect or not. (If he himself cared, then it would matter to him whether improvements were real or in his imagination, and he's said that it does not.) Given that starting point, there's nothing unreasonable about also not caring what books, experts, and teachers have to say about how to (and how not to) improve the performance of an audio system. Being an expert in subjective audio is like having an advanced degree in recess. No one bothers to confer or check the credentials, because no one cares, so one can claim anything and only a few skeptics -- people who actually care about the truth of the claims due to holding a particular philosophy concerning the nature of claims themselves -- will ever argue the issue.

If ES is ever called upon to do something requiring skill, for which actual success in the endeavor matters -- such as grow his own crops and survive on them, administer self-care to treat an injury or disease, play poker for money, or make love to a real woman -- then and only then might his attitude about books, experts, and teachers change.

Respectfully,
Myriad
 
1. You add a tweak and hear a real improvement. OR

2. You add a tweak and you imagine you hear an improvement.

But you don't care which is true?

If you buy gas for your car do care if that gas is real or imagined? It seems I'm really struggling to get my point across to you - your answers make no sense to me.



Where did I say that? Athletes winning gold medals can be verified in a number of ways. Your claims about improved sound quality can be verified by simple double-blind tests. Ever done any DBT? I would guess not as you don't care whether the improved sound quality is real or imagined.



So it's all about belief? You believe you can hear a difference. You don't care if that difference is real or imagined.

Seriously, do some double blind tests. You may be very surprised at the results.
That's not what I'm saying. The improved detail is never imagined. But the lack of detail could have been.
It's the same with athletes winning gold medals, it doesn't matter how they got to that skill level...The skill level is real. The detail in audio is real.
 

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