PS Audio Noise Harvester

I'm sure this has been suggested already but I couldn't find it on a quick skim through the thread:

ExtremeSceptic, are you and other audiophiles prepared to take part in a double-blinded test of these tweaks, to see if you can hear a difference when you don't know whether the tweak is in place or not?
 
Read some BS they have to say about cables

http://www.stereotimes.com/cable123103.shtml

This site has no credit, it is full of woo-woo.

And as for doing a true double blind tests, ExtremeSkeptic has no idea of what that means.

Here is a site that is not full of woo-woo and of course has nothing written on the so-called Noise Harvester.

http://www.audioholics.com/

Paul

:) :) :)
You are just a beginner so you won't understand these things.

The audioholics website has been linked to hundreds of times in audiophile forums... Audioholics is a cult made for people with tin ears who want to feel better about themselves.
 
I see that he has posted, but I have him ignore, so unless someone quotes him, I will not see as he will not learn………..

Paul

:) :) :)
 
Some audiophile woo-woo talk

"Pulling harmonics together from a jumbled auditory stream to form a coherent harmonic envelope."

"Image outlines were sharply focused in space with believable palpability."

"There was plenty of bass detail to behold."

"The music flows with gusto and verve. It squeezes instrumental images into incredibly palpable outlines."

"...more muscle and definition, and a heart that is pure gold."

"Most preamps when pushed hard change their sonic signature."

"Harmonic colors were somewhat on the dark side."

"By using the $450 gold plated RCA stereo jumper cables for all line-level connections, and the newly available $1200 gold plated XYZ speaker wires, we were able to achieve a distinct improvement in highs and the deepest rich bass lows I have ever heard. A massive improvement over ordinary old copper."

"These cables deliver big time! The sound is surprsingly smooth and spacious, with particularly sweet upper octaves."

"If you connect a ground to the chassis of your power amplifer and use 4 gauge wire connected to a bucket of salt water with a copper coil in it, your mids and highs will be the sweetest you have ever heard. Works with car audio systems too. Place the bucket in the trunk and reduce speed on corners and when braking, to avoid spillage."

"Special wooden resonator disks made in Asia from a special tree, only found in one area. Placing these under EACH of your components, at strategic locations will remove 'unwanted resonances', and DRAMATIC improval tonal quality. The difference is astounding. These disks of wood sell for around $100 to $400 EACH (depending on size)."

"somewhat fuzzy portrayal of image outlines."

"Harmonic textures ebbed and flowed with startling dynamic nuances and the sort of liquidity and purity one only comes to associate with world-class audio products."

"Harmonic textures are painted slightly gray in color."

"Spatial detail was painted with a fine brush that readily resolved massed voices and the air around individual instruments."

"Image outlines, however, are more precisely focused within the soundstage and in general the Accordance is capable of sketching out a convincing 3-D acoustic impression."
"It felt like I had crawled into a warm and inviting sonic womb."

"Not content with straight S.E.X. (the single-ended experimenter's kit), the Doctor introduces the "69" tapered pipe loudspeaker. Sounds like a recipe for a mind-blowing sonic orgasm."

"The impression of speed and control was strong."

"Bass lines were fleshed out with excellent definition."

"It is less lush sounding than..."

"...force feeding the listener an earful of detail; more accurately, a barrage of in-your-face zingers that becomes almost an instant irritant."

"Each tube brand seems to have a unique flavor of its own."

"Certain busy passages of music get congested."

"... sounds either euphonic or bright."

"The Equilibre ($8,475) - nominally a 60-watt stereo amp."

"It could well explain the sweet sounds that come from using passive preamps straight into the power amplifiers."

"...with an easy-to-drive impedance magnitude."

"Rendition of harmonic colors was suave and smooth, with a believable sugar coating."

"Exposure of low-level detail, even in complex passages, without leaving anything to the imagination."

"The mids are vivid in spades with wave after wave of honey-coated harmonic bliss."

"The midbass region is "fun"

"the upper mids are a bit more laid back than I would like."

"the low bottom end is not there..."

After 40 plus years with audio equipment, it just never ends with the woo-woo....... and the BS is only getting deeper as people with less or no education get into it. :D

Paul
:) :) :)
 
Last edited:
"the upper mids are a bit more laid back than I would like."


Well, this one is understandable. No one who commands a tight ship would want the oldest midshipmen, who are supposed to be on the verge of promotion to third lieutenant and who should be setting a good example for the younger ones, to be slacking off.

Respectfully,
Myriad
 
"Each tube brand seems to have a unique flavor of its own."

Believe it or not, there are sometimes definite, measurable differences between tubes having the same type number from different manufacturers.

There are several "vintage" audio compressors designed around the 6386 twin medium-mu triode, which use it as a controlled-gain stage by varying the control grid bias, which changes the transconductance of the tube. Examples include the Gates Sta-Level, the Fairchild 660 and 670 and the Altec 436.

6386s are extremely difficult to find these days; they've been out of production for decades and all that's left is NOS. Dealers, even specialists in antique electronics, rarely have them, so we wind up scrounging on eBay and other internet sources. In doing this, one of the studios I work for obtained some GE and RCA 6386s and a set of four made by Westinghouse.

When I tested the Westinghouse 6386s in one of our Fairchild 670s, it was immediately apparent that something was off. The gain was about 6 dB higher than normal, the plate current of the 6386 stage (which is what the gain reduction meter is measuring) was only about 60% of normal, and when I did an input level versus output level plot to see what the compression curve was like, it was way wrong. What would normally be a curve with a compression ratio averaging 5:1 was instead a very tight limiting curve of nearly 20:1.

Having previously done some work on converting the Sta-Level to use the more-obtainable 5670 tube, these symptoms were familiar. I unplugged the Westinghouse 6386s, plugged in a set of JAN 5670s, let them warm up and ran the curve again.

It was identical to within a pixel's width. The gain and reduction meter reading were also the same. The Westinghouse 6386s had characteristics essentially identical to a 5670.

I've also run across a Sta-Level which had a Sylvania 6386 in it and exhibited the same massive difference in performance. With an RCA tube installed it measured out perfectly normally.

In the service for which these tubes were originally developed- gain-controlled RF amp stages in VHF receivers- this would probably not have been a problem. In fact, the higher voltage gain, lower plate current draw and greater sensitivity to AGC voltage might actually have yielded better performance.

In an audio compressor, however, that was totally unacceptable. A change in the unit's performance of that magnitude would have been obvious even without the use of measurement equipment; there's little point in patching in a particular piece of gear if it doesn't work the way it's expected to.

Who the manufacturer is can also make a difference in solid-state parts having the same type number. The service manual for the dear old Lexicon PCM-70 specifies that certain 74HCTxx and 74Fxx chips be from certain manufacturers. Lexicon has always had the habit of running their logic at the ragged edge of its performance; apparently the propagation and transition times of some of these ICs are critical to getting the circuit to work, and only parts from certain manufacturers are known to work properly in their design.

The quoted bit is almost certainly pure woo, but assuming that all active components with the same type number will be identical is not supported by evidence.
 
Because if it's true it destroys all the credibility of the skeptics in this forum, and they don't like that.


BTW. His impressions were the same as mine.
(My bolding)

Ahh, that's the reason you like this text. I thought so, but thank you for admitting it.

I'm sorry, ES, but you are a fool.

Have a nice pseudo-life!

bye.

Hans
 
Believe it or not, there are sometimes definite, measurable differences between tubes having the same type number from different manufacturers.

Of course, there are. There are definite, measurable differences between individual tubes from the same manufacturer.

There are several "vintage" audio compressors designed around the 6386 twin medium-mu triode, which use it as a controlled-gain stage by varying the control grid bias, which changes the transconductance of the tube. *snip*
I've also run across a Sta-Level which had a Sylvania 6386 in it and exhibited the same massive difference in performance. With an RCA tube installed it measured out perfectly normally.

Yeah, because in a compressor, such characteristics are critical. In a normal amplifier set-up, it makes no difference.

That's what you ger for insisting on using an archaeic technology.

In the service for which these tubes were originally developed- gain-controlled RF amp stages in VHF receivers- this would probably not have been a problem. In fact, the higher voltage gain, lower plate current draw and greater sensitivity to AGC voltage might actually have yielded better performance.

Maybe. Anyway, in a closed loop, like an AGC circuit, such differences don't show.

Who the manufacturer is can also make a difference in solid-state parts having the same type number.

Very much so. Semiconductors vary
more than ye olde tubes.


The service manual for the dear old Lexicon PCM-70 specifies that certain 74HCTxx and 74Fxx chips be from certain manufacturers. Lexicon has always had the habit of running their logic at the ragged edge of its performance; apparently the propagation and transition times of some of these ICs are critical to getting the circuit to work, and only parts from certain manufacturers are known to work properly in their design.

The quoted bit is almost certainly pure woo, but assuming that all active components with the same type number will be identical is not supported by evidence.

You certainly can't. Not even with logic parts. Unless the circuit has been properly constructed.

Hans
 
Ahh Paul, nice list of technobabble:

"Pulling harmonics together from a jumbled auditory stream to form a coherent harmonic envelope."

Blatant nonsense. You can't change the harmonic content without seriously altering the sound

"Image outlines were sharply focused in space with believable palpability."

Words without actual meaning.

"There was plenty of bass detail to behold."

Really :rolleyes: ?

"The music flows with gusto and verve. It squeezes instrumental images into incredibly palpable outlines."

A credit to the orchestra, surely?

"...more muscle and definition, and a heart that is pure gold."

Pure poetry.

"Most preamps when pushed hard change their sonic signature."

Well, yes. Most things do when pushed hard enough. Even furniture.
"Harmonic colors were somewhat on the dark side."

"By using the $450 gold plated RCA stereo jumper cables for all line-level connections, and the newly available $1200 gold plated XYZ speaker wires, we were able to achieve a distinct improvement in highs and the deepest rich bass lows I have ever heard. A massive improvement over ordinary old copper."

One of the most ridiculous audiophile claims is the claim that cables make a big difference.

"These cables deliver big time! The sound is surprsingly smooth and spacious, with particularly sweet upper octaves."

See above.

"If you connect a ground to the chassis of your power amplifer and use 4 gauge wire connected to a bucket of salt water with a copper coil in it, your mids and highs will be the sweetest you have ever heard. Works with car audio systems too. Place the bucket in the trunk and reduce speed on corners and when braking, to avoid spillage."

Normally, I would assume this was a joke, but in audiophile circles .......

"Special wooden resonator disks made in Asia from a special tree, only found in one area. Placing these under EACH of your components, at strategic locations will remove 'unwanted resonances', and DRAMATIC improval tonal quality. The difference is astounding. These disks of wood sell for around $100 to $400 EACH (depending on size)."

This is one of the obvious swindle cases. The vendor of this stuff knows it is crap.

"somewhat fuzzy portrayal of image outlines."

Well yeah, I once had a TV like that.

"Harmonic textures ebbed and flowed with startling dynamic nuances and the sort of liquidity and purity one only comes to associate with world-class audio products."

"Harmonic textures are painted slightly gray in color."

"Spatial detail was painted with a fine brush that readily resolved massed voices and the air around individual instruments."

"Image outlines, however, are more precisely focused within the soundstage and in general the Accordance is capable of sketching out a convincing 3-D acoustic impression."
"It felt like I had crawled into a warm and inviting sonic womb."

More of the poetry wein. You would think this eloquence could be put to better uses.

"Not content with straight S.E.X. (the single-ended experimenter's kit), the Doctor introduces the "69" tapered pipe loudspeaker. Sounds like a recipe for a mind-blowing sonic orgasm."

69? Is that inches? Then I'm impressed.

"The impression of speed and control was strong."

Got a new car?

"Bass lines were fleshed out with excellent definition."

Sounds dirty, somehow.

"It is less lush sounding than..."

"...force feeding the listener an earful of detail; more accurately, a barrage of in-your-face zingers that becomes almost an instant irritant."
Is that supposed to be an appraisal?

"Each tube brand seems to have a unique flavor of its own."
Well, just don't eat the stuff.
... Seriously, tho': NO two components, of any kind, are exactly alike, and it is actually possible to make designs that are so crappy that their performance is depending on individual component characteristics. However, engineers who do that should seek work in such business that fits their real skills. I suggest lawn mower racing.

"Certain busy passages of music get congested."

Mmm, well there IS actuallt such a thing as transien intermodulation (TIM). TIM has an effect that could well be described such. But TIM was mainly a problem in 1970ties semiconductor amps.

"... sounds either euphonic or bright."

I'd say euphoric. Audiophiles rarely sound bright.

"The Equilibre ($8,475) - nominally a 60-watt stereo amp."

A real cheapie! :rolleyes:

"It could well explain the sweet sounds that come from using passive preamps straight into the power amplifiers."

Passive amplifiers? Can I have that one again? :dio:

"...with an easy-to-drive impedance magnitude."

"Rendition of harmonic colors was suave and smooth, with a believable sugar coating."

"Exposure of low-level detail, even in complex passages, without leaving anything to the imagination."

"The mids are vivid in spades with wave after wave of honey-coated harmonic bliss."

"The midbass region is "fun"

"the upper mids are a bit more laid back than I would like."
Will the poetry never end?

"the low bottom end is not there..."

So true. Every time you' think they can't stoop any lower, a new gadget sees the light.

Hans
 
I have lots more BS writings about audio like that, but the following this one is good for showing that little to no knowledge is just plain dumb, and without a good foundation thru reading what other people have learned by real testing just opens ones to woo-woo.

ES reminds me of some CB radio people I know. One of them said to me one day with a puzzled look on his face, "Book learning, you got book learning" as if it was a bad thing. He drove around with a bucket in his car’s trunk full of salt, he had put a wire into the salt and grounded the other end to the car's body. He had heard that putting salt into the ground around a copper pipe that was being used as an earth ground would make it work better, so from that idea he jumped right to using salt in a bucket in his car’s trunk for a better earth ground. If he knew what an earth ground is used for in the first place, well he wouldn’t have done this.

You set yourself up for woo-woo when the only source you use is one that is set up to sell you crap based on woo-woo.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
I have lots more BS writings about audio like that, but the following this one is good for showing that little to no knowledge is just plain dumb, and without a good foundation thru reading what other people have learned by real testing just opens ones to woo-woo.

ES reminds me of some CB radio people I know. One of them said to me one day with a puzzled look on his face, "Book learning, you got book learning" as if it was a bad thing.
Yes, book learning is bad because you won't be able to understand something if you don't experience it on your own.

There are people who are brainwashed by the knowledge which they can't understand, then they try to justify it by telling others how good book learning is. The problem is that they don't know they are brainwashed themselves. Books are like a virus that keeps spreading and infecting everyone that reads them.
People who read a book will always get flawed knowledge even if the knowledge in the book is true, this is because everyone perceives the knowledge differently than the author of the book did.
 
I see that he has posted again, ignore is so nice feature. Most likely his is talking about an education as a bad thing. I wouldn't be surprise if he isn't a red-neck.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
A deaf skeptic can read all the books in the world and he still isn't going to understand how it feels like to hear audio through his ears. It's the same with audio, if you have never listened to a proper audio system you don't know what you are missing. Instead you read the books and live in ignorance, I did that for 2 years before I tried it for myself. Afterwards I regretted I listened to my fellow skeptics, I could have had better sound much sooner. The skeptics know nothing, I learned it the hard way. If you have thousands of posts in this forum then it's going to become a problem making the change towards truth, it's easier to ignore it and live in ignorance instead.
 
That Aha! moment. ES, I've spotted your problem - it's not true.
If I would receive a dollar every time I heard a skeptic say he is 100% sure of something I would become a millionaire.

The only thing they are 100% sure of is that they want it so bad that is becomes 100% true to them. They like to live in their dream world...

I don't care if it's true or not, I'm getting getting better sound no matter if it's placebo or not, and the skeptics are just jealous. If Harvester didn't make a difference I could easily sell it and get rich, if it does make a difference I'm getting better sound. It's not hard to figure out who are the jealous losers here.
 
Last edited:
1. Skeptics tend not to be 100% sure of just about anything. Comes with the territory.

2. Jealous losers? Not me, ES, I have a volume control on my sound system - i turn clockwise and the volume increases, anti-clockwise and the volume decreases. I can hear that difference and I'd take a double-blind test on that claim any day. Care to do the same for your claims? For a million dollars?

I don't care if it's true or not
Now you've really confused me.
 
Last edited:

Back
Top Bottom