Is Marijuana Harmless?

[drkitten]

How would one go about legalizing MJ in the states?

In most areas, MJ is illegal at both the federal and state levels, so it would require two separate legislative acts to legalize. As to how to do it -- well, at the Federal level, you would need to introduce a bil to remove MJ from the appropriate list of banned/controlled stubstances by amending the Controlled Substances Act, or alternatively persuade the boffins at the Department of Justice to use their regulatory authority to de-list MJ. You would need to do something similar at the state level, but the exact steps would vary from state to state.

 

[DangerousBeliefs]

WTF? "If everyone grew it, that would be quite a loss of tax money" so we can only allow taxpaying companies to grow it and criminalise homegrowers? What bulls*it is this? So let´s make it illegal to grow your own veggies also, or supermarkets might lose some income... D.I.Y? forbidden, call the proffesionals to go into your house and fix that damn pictureframe... Are you taking the p*ss?

Abooga, I'm speaking hypothetically...

The reasons it wouldn't be under my plan would be:

1) Loss of tax revenue!!!

2) Loss of regulation (instead of growing for your own use, what if you sell to others?) No, if legalized, the government is going to want to keep its creation and consumption under tight controls. No home growing... no possession of seeds or plant unless already packaged (and taxed).

3) Public safety (your kids could get into it, people might be more inclined to rob your house, etc.)

I feel marijuana is perfectly suited for this model as it would bring in large sums of tax dollars and the social impact would be about the same as alcohol (perhaps even less!).

I also think it would offer a safe, legal way for those who want to use drugs to indulge without committing a felony. Our current system of banning any and all drugs is unrealistic, in my opinion.

 

[Georg]

WTF? "If everyone grew it, that would be quite a loss of tax money" so we can only allow taxpaying companies to grow it and criminalise homegrowers? What bulls*it is this? So let´s make it illegal to grow your own veggies also, or supermarkets might lose some income... D.I.Y? forbidden, call the proffesionals to go into your house and fix that damn pictureframe... Are you taking the p*ss?

Ehm........I didn´t say that this is my opinion. What I wanted to say is, that this would be the reason why even after a legalisation it probably wouldn´t be allowed to grow your own stuff. In fact, I could teach you a lesson or two about how to do it, but that would not be appropriate for this forum. We are actually on the same side of the fence. I don´t know where you are from, but in my country it is also not allowed to produce your own booze, probably for the same reasons. Now, light up and cool down.

 

[Georg]

I would like to be tested for that (stone-driving). Has it ever been done? Properly, with different dosages etc.

It would be nice if you actually read the articles I linked for you in post 179. The second link is to a study where they tested exactly that.

 

[Abooga]

Forbidden to sell... fair enough, but making it illegal to grow some simple, common, naturally occurring plants is ridiculous... specially if the measure is there to avoid loss of tax revenue... are we mad?

The personal tragedies that these inconsistent and unfair anti-drug laws are causing in the world all the time are terrible. People´s lives ruined for smuggling or growing small quantities of whatever... all this to protect what? Children´s exposure to drugs? It´s pretty obvious that the measures are not actually fulfilling this function, drugs are available and will stay that way.

This is something that really pi**es me off. But yeah, let´s light up and chill. Perhaps when we get older we might be able to change this situation. I mean, at least here in Spain I can´t imagine my generation tolerating this, knowing what we know, with the widespread use of hash...

 

[Georg]

Yes.

O.K., as far as I comprehend the content with my insufficient knowledge of “scientific English”, the result of the study you cited seems to be contradictory to the results of the ones I found. Is there a way for a medical layperson like me to find out what´s really going on?

 

[drkitten]

O.K., as far as I comprehend the content with my insufficient knowledge of “scientific English”, the result of the study you cited seems to be contradictory to the results of the ones I found. Is there a way for a medical layperson like me to find out what´s really going on?

As far as I can tell, the conclusion of all three studies is that MJ impairs driving abiliy, but not one's ability to recognize that one's ability has been impaired. Hence, stoners (unlike drunkards) tend toretain enough sense to stay the hell off the road while totally baked.

 

[Cuddles]

As far as I can tell, the conclusion of all three studies is that MJ impairs driving abiliy, but not one's ability to recognize that one's ability has been impaired. Hence, stoners (unlike drunkards) tend toretain enough sense to stay the hell off the road while totally baked.

For some reason I'm reminded of Homer Simpson. "I'm in no condition to drive. Hey, wait, I'm drunk, I shouldn't listen to myself."

 

[Lonewulf]

For some reason I'm reminded of Homer Simpson. "I'm in no condition to drive. Hey, wait, I'm drunk, I shouldn't listen to myself."

Haha.

 

[IzakDavidxXx]

No drug is uniform.

That "skunk" stuff has 300 mg of THC, as opposed to 10 mg of THC. That's over THIRTY TIMES the amount of THC per joint.

There's a key difference between smoking 20 mg of THC per week (2 joints a week), and 600 mg (2 joints a week). And then, if the kids then smoke more often than even that, that's even more compounded; if there's a much higher "high", would the kids be more likely to smoke even more per week? I think that that's an interesting question.

There's a kid that I met here in Corpus that was a drug user (I suggested for him to go to a rehab center; he actually eventually took my advice, he claims). He would *snort* weed, but it wasn't weed; it was 1/2 weed, 1/2 cocaine (crack? I forget).

Not nice stuff, but not necessarily normal marijuana either.

I smoke minimum of 4 grams per day, I have cut back to around 3-3.5 grams of natural weed not the hydro weed. I love the relaxed feeling it gives me, but it does have lasting psychological effects on long term heavy users, trust me I know.
About the flashbacks, Yes marijuana can cause flashbacks, just like the taste of a favorite sweet will take you back to childhood, or a song will take you back some place special. The flashbacks aren't as severe as the LSD and chemical drugs, but are still there. For some people with underlying scitzophrenic issues or weak mental health, Mary jane can magnify the issue or mental problem.
And while there is a physical withdrawl symptom, like hanging for coffee, I believe that the Psychological dependence is harder to break.
All your friends smoke it, this is no longer fun but a habit, you feel insecure if you go out and don't have some etc etc etc.

One has to stimulate the mind with other activities in order for one to quit, just stopping is not enough, you constantly sit there thinking' that was a good movie, pack a cone, that was a great dinner, pack a cone...and so on.

Sorry for the rant it is 3:45am in Australia, time for another bong and then it's bedtime.

 

[alexg]

Cocaine was thought to be harmless. Measuring harm or no harm, scientifically, is a tricky business.

Hey if you have a teenage child who is popping Vicodin here and there could you prove to them this is a bad idea? Why? Any evidence of this? AFAIK there is litle or no evidence that occasional opiate use is harmfull. Would you be encoraged if they said to you, hey Dad, cigareettes and alcohol are worse and they are leagal?

I've seen chronic chronic use up close and very personal and it's far from harlmless. People always say they are going to use it in moderation but how many achieve this?

And to Izak, quitting can be hard as rule 8 but you gotta find a way to do it. There is no life in chronic drug use. Believe that! Look at how it has murdered your experienece of the simple pleasures of life such as a meal and a movie. The good news is that that simple joy of life returns after some weeks or months of abstinence.

 

[Lonewulf]

Cocaine was thought to be harmless.

...And?

Hey if you have a teenage child who is popping Vicodin here and there could you prove to them this is a bad idea? Why? Any evidence of this? AFAIK there is litle or no evidence that occasional opiate use is harmfull. Would you be encoraged if they said to you, hey Dad, cigareettes and alcohol are worse and they are leagal?

I don't quite get the argument here.

"Some product was once thought to be harmless. Now it's considered harmful. THEREFORE, marijuana is harmful".

You're stating that just because people see one product as harmful, therefore Marijuana is. It's not logical.

I've seen chronic chronic use up close and very personal and it's far from harlmless. People always say they are going to use it in moderation but how many achieve this?

Almost everyone I've ever met that ever smoked a joint?

 

[IzakDavidxXx]

And to Izak, quitting can be hard as rule 8 but you gotta find a way to do it. There is no life in chronic drug use. Believe that! Look at how it has murdered your experienece of the simple pleasures of life such as a meal and a movie. The good news is that that simple joy of life returns after some weeks or months of abstinence.

How true, I did quit for a whole year, and my quality of life improved. But unfortunately I hurt my back at work, went through a bout of depression, and find my self back on the drug. I lead a perfectly scheduled life, I work I have a new wife, I have a beautiful daughter, and I have a drug problem. And it is only a problem, becuase I let it become a problem. Some of us have an addictive personality.

In moderation or used occasionally, MJ will do little to no harm, but when abused, like everything else, it becomes a problem.

I am scared of throat and lung cancer, but even that is not incentive enough for me to quit. I work the graveyard shift, and when I come home, I smoke.

Thank you for your comment.

 

[alexg]

Sorry to come down so heavy Izak. Obviously you have a life.

To Lonewolf:

I don't quite get the argument here.

"Some product was once thought to be harmless. Now it's considered harmful. THEREFORE, marijuana is harmful".

No, demonstrating that "measuring harm or no harm, scientifically, is a tricky business."

I'm happy to admit to you that I am not on top of current research on this topic. I usually hang in the 'conspiracy theory' section.

I personally know of too many people who became chronic users. There may well be other categories of people who are able to maintain moderation. I am speaking from personal experience only.

 

[Lonewulf]

No, demonstrating that "measuring harm or no harm, scientifically, is a tricky business."

Okay, yes.

I'm happy to admit to you that I am not on top of current research on this topic. I usually hang in the 'conspiracy theory' section.

Fair enough.

I personally know of too many people who became chronic users. There may well be other categories of people who are able to maintain moderation. I am speaking from personal experience only.

The only one that I know of who was a "chronic user", and was not able to quit his habit, cut his marijuana with crack.

Most of the users that I know of (outside of that one example), who did not "cut" their product, and bought their product through channels where they could be sure that their stash wasn't "cut", were able to quit their habits relatively (if not completely) easily.

Based on the people that I know (which is anecdotal, sure, but so are your examples), I'm pretty sure that marijuana is not quite the same as being addicted to crack.

 

[l0rca]

I 've known some pot heads in my time, I just heve never met one that attained his full potential while getting stoned. The easy happiness from drugs seems to eliminate the need for actually accomplishing anything to be proud of.

Carl Sagan was a huge pothead.

 

[Stellafane]

As far as I can tell, the conclusion of all three studies is that MJ impairs driving abiliy, but not one's ability to recognize that one's ability has been impaired. Hence, stoners (unlike drunkards) tend toretain enough sense to stay the hell off the road while totally baked.

A drunk, an acid head, and a pot smoker go out for a night of partying. When they come back they find the gate to their condo locked, with a sign on it that says "Gate locked until tomorrow." Drunk says, "Let's break down the gate!" Acid head says, "Let's float through the keyhole." Pot smoker says, "Let's wait until tomorrow."

 

[wolfgirl]

Perhaps when we get older we might be able to change this situation. I mean, at least here in Spain I can´t imagine my generation tolerating this, knowing what we know, with the widespread use of hash...

If that were true, it certainly would mean that MY generation wouldn't have tolerated it. I grew up in the 60s and 70s. If there was ever a generation that loved to smoke pot, it was ours. Yet still we have these inane laws. I think everybody just grew up and thought, "Yeah, we did it when WE were young, but we don't want our KIDS doing it."

 

[wolfgirl]

People always say they are going to use it in moderation but how many achieve this?

I don't know how many, but I know I have achieved it. I can smoke all day every day for an entire long weekend, or once a day every day over a vacation period, and then literally not smoke again for months. I enjoy it when I do it, but I never feel any sort of physical "craving" for it. Moderation in all things...

 

[alexg]

I don't know how many, but I know I have achieved it. I can smoke all day every day for an entire long weekend, or once a day every day over a vacation period, and then literally not smoke again for months. I enjoy it when I do it, but I never feel any sort of physical "craving" for it. Moderation in all things...

I'll take your word for it. But I must add that I unfortunately have seen a lot of people who thought they had their drug use under control only to discover they were in classic denial. Trite, I know, but true. I have also known a few who maintained 'moderation' - if moderation is in fact moderate in effect is another question.