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NIST Petition Demands Corrections

In which case might I respectfully submit that the fact the landing gear exited the building largely undamaged shows that it didn't do much damage to the internal structure ?

AS the French would say; "exactement!"

You are quite correct!

Unfortunately, NIST did not have the landing gear exit the WTC in their simulation as it should. They let it use it's destructive potential inside the towers. Afterwards, the simulated fires were allowed to work on this false damage for 1 hour and 1.5 hours for WTC 2 and WTC 1 respectively.

This was in the extreme case scenario and it was the only scenario that the simulation produced a collapse initiation!

MM
 
AS the French would say; "exactement!"

You are quite correct!

Unfortunately, NIST did not have the landing gear exit the WTC in their simulation as it should. They let it use it's destructive potential inside the towers. Afterwards, the simulated fires were allowed to work on this false damage for 1 hour and 1.5 hours for WTC 2 and WTC 1 respectively.

This was in the extreme case scenario and it was the only scenario that the simulation produced a collapse initiation!

MM
Only a part of the landing gear exited. A piece of the landing gear. Landing gear on the plane were not single wheels but sets of wheels. Your piece did not exit without damaging the WTC. In fact the piece gave up most it's energy to damaging the WTC. Facts hurt your case and Dr Jones ignores them in his petition and his 9/11 work.
 
For those who care Purdue has a more detailed impact simulation. Also if I'm not mistaken Purdue has more damage from the impact that NIST. Although I'll have to double check.

http://news.uns.purdue.edu/html4ever/2006/060911.Sozen.WTC.html

Bringing up facts at a CT debate is prohibited by CT law created by Dylan at LCF and JDX at the PFTF, the censor NAZIs of the CT world of 9/11 liars with the ironic name of "Truth Movement".

Bringing in an independent study could fracture the thin matrix of lies the truth movement is based on. It is a double whammy of "independent study" and "real science work" which crack the space time CT warp of lies wide open.

good job
 
Due to the complexity of the event being simulated, I prefer to talk in terms that are less abstract and more difficult to find fault with.

Just because something is "more difficult" to find fault with doesn't mean it's true. It just makes it appear that way. Good thing we have science to be able to tell the difference and not trust appearances.

Once you get into speculative numbers and unproven math, it's very difficult to see the 'forest for the trees'.

What is that supposed to mean ?

Imagine the amount of destruction that could create striking something capable of stopping it from making it's exit.

Imagine how this destruction might impact on a computer simulation running a fire scenario around it for 1 hour or 1.5 hours.

Oh, so THAT's your problem with it ? You REALLY think that a single piece of the aircraft made so much of a difference in the NIST model that, without it, the WTC towers would not have collapsed ?

What about the OTHER tower, then ?

A small very strong object of great material strength will do far more focused damage than a soft larger object of the same weight even if both are moving at the same high speed.

Will they ? Kinetic energy and all that ?

Not a big deal? Malcontents? Excuse me for not rolling over and accepting every word of the NIST conclusions.

Skepticism brought to its logical conclusion leads to cynicism. Remember that.

Mack said:
In your opinion, which of the three cases is the best fit to all the observed evidence? The less severe, baseline, or more severe case? Choose only one.
NONE!

I place more importance on the only proven observable than you do!

You place far TOO much importance on certain minor, observed occurances. The overall picture, or "forest for the trees", is the same.


How is that even possible ?
 
AS the French would say; "exactement!"

Well, you've got me, there. The man knows ONE word in French.

Je suis époustouflé! Bafoué! Terrassé! Omnibulé! Ahuri! Ébloui! :rolleyes:

You are quite correct!

Unfortunately, NIST did not have the landing gear exit the WTC in their simulation as it should. They let it use it's destructive potential inside the towers. Afterwards, the simulated fires were allowed to work on this false damage for 1 hour and 1.5 hours for WTC 2 and WTC 1 respectively.

This was in the extreme case scenario and it was the only scenario that the simulation produced a collapse initiation!

It's nice how you pick the one part of my post you think agrees with you and IGNORE the rest of what I've said. How very, very clever of you.

Oh, and by the way:


You've been busted, I believe.
 
Well, you've got me, there. The man knows ONE word in French.

Je suis époustouflé! Bafoué! Terrassé! Omnibulé! Ahuri! Ébloui! :rolleyes:



It's nice how you pick the one part of my post you think agrees with you and IGNORE the rest of what I've said. How very, very clever of you.

Oh, and by the way:

http://howthingswork.virginia.edu/journal/Article1.1.pdf

You've been busted, I believe.

http://howthingswork.virginia.edu/journal/Article1.1.pdf
It is funny how much he searches for stuff to support the tangential topics to his own topic. He then brings up the very paper that uses flesh to destory "harder' stuff.

From the same place he got his cut and paste stuff. It uses energy! So it is about energy MM?
Consider a martial artist capable of striking with 190 joules (J) of energy. A typical human hand is about 6 inches long including the fingers and 4 inches across, which means that a strike with the entire hand disperses those 190 J over 24 square inches, about 7.92 J per square inch.
They be talking energy MM, I thought you said something about it not being about energy? What the heck is a big J?

MM you got to be the most active researcher in the CT movement on 9/11, you should stop and try to understand what you read, it usually contradicts your conclusions you make from the source you find.
 
For those who care Purdue has a more detailed impact simulation. Also if I'm not mistaken Purdue has more damage from the impact that NIST. Although I'll have to double check.

http://news.uns.purdue.edu/html4ever/2006/060911.Sozen.WTC.html

It's NIST that gets cited and it's NIST that represents the government sanctioned position.

The NIST Petition is the subject of this thread..start a Purdue thread if you want Kent1.

MM
 
And this somehow invalidates the argument?

It only proves content means nothing and that this is all just a game to you.
Yes, because it proves you're just another Google-scientist.

This is hardly a game at all. Many people worked hard on this report. Many more people made several decisions on its basis. All of us can learn some things from it. That applies to me as well, even though I am not a mere Google-scientist, and I have been formally trained in solid mechanics, structural simulation, and CFD.

Content is precisely the point. Your petition, on the other hand, seeks to remove content, to serve its own unscientific purposes. This is hardly useful.

Is this getting through at all?
 
It's NIST that gets cited and it's NIST that represents the government sanctioned position.

The NIST Petition is the subject of this thread..start a Purdue thread if you want Kent1.

MM

The government sanctioned position??
LOL! Considering it deals with the crash I thought it might be interesting for others to know. If this bothers you, I really don't care.

Also its not a game. If you take from a source it would be helpful to provide that source rather than create an ambguity regarding the origin.
 
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It's NIST that gets cited and it's NIST that represents the government sanctioned position.

The NIST Petition is the subject of this thread..start a Purdue thread if you want Kent1.

MM
Are you afraid the Purdue study proves the petition is junk.

You are right the petition is junk from nuts.

Proved by you, and Purdue and NIST. It is about energy and you proved that also. Thank you.
 
It's NIST that gets cited and it's NIST that represents the government sanctioned position.

The NIST Petition is the subject of this thread..start a Purdue thread if you want Kent1.

MM
There is no government sanctioned position. Does the government sanction positions? Do you have a source for that?

I still like your energy work proving simple flesh can break a "hard" object and showing the energy to do it. I have to agree you have busted the petition position. Good job.
 
Only a part of the landing gear exited. A piece of the landing gear. Landing gear on the plane were not single wheels but sets of wheels. Your piece did not exit without damaging the WTC. In fact the piece gave up most it's energy to damaging the WTC. Facts hurt your case and Dr Jones ignores them in his petition and his 9/11 work.

None of the simulated debris impacting the south wall happened to contain landing gear fragments. 340 NIST NCSTAR 1-2B, WTC Investigation

It is believed that a portion of the main landing gear of AA 11 exited WTC 1 at the 94th or 95th floor and landed at the corner of Rector and West Streets. This debris is believed to be a tire, wheel, brake assembly, and hub of a main landing gear, as shown in Figure 9–122. Based on the final position of the landing gear and assuming the landing gear to be a projectile with a horizontal initial velocity, the exit speed of the landing gear from the south wall of WTC 1 can be estimated to be about 105 mph.
344 NIST NCSTAR 1-2B, WTC Investigation

Another piece of landing gear debris, shown in Figure 9–123, was found embedded in what is postulated to be the panel containing columns 329, 330, 331, running from the 93rd to the 96th floors. This panel was dislodged from the building and found at Cedar Street near its intersection with West Street. As little other damage had been documented on the south face of WTC 1, it is postulated that the landing gear debris that landed at the corner of Rector St. and West St. also exited through this panel location. NIST NCSTAR 1-2B, WTC Investigation 345

A portion of the landing gear of UAL 175 exited WTC 2 and landed on the roof of 45 Park Place. No photographic evidence was available to document the size of the fragment and whether this was a nose or main landing gear. 352 NIST NCSTAR 1-2B, WTC Investigation

A portion of the port main landing gear was seen to exit the building at approximately 230 mph in the more severe impact analysis,
as shown in Figure 9–131(b). No landing gear debris exited the building in either the base case or less severe simulations. At the conclusion of the simulation, the base case analysis had a substantial piece of the starboard main landing gear still at approximately 130 mph that was expected to impact the northeast corner. NIST NCSTAR 1-2B, WTC Investigation 353

Observed trajectories of specific aircraft components, such as the landing gear and engines, were considered to be of lower importance in validating the simulated damage to the tower. A fairly precise knowledge of the internal configuration of the building would be needed in order to simulate the trajectory of specific aircraft debris. Damage to the opposite side of each tower from the point of impact was also of lower importance. These parts of the tower were modeled with lower resolution and as a result, the models were not sufficient to capture the detailed damage.

Table 9–13. Comparison with observables from WTC 1.
Landing gear trajectory was deemed by NIST to be slightly significant and in poor agreement.NIST NCSTAR 1-2B, WTC Investigation 363

Table 9–14. Comparison with observables from WTC 2.
Landing gear trajectory was deemed by NIST to be not significant and in fair agreement.NIST NCSTAR 1-2B, WTC Investigation 363

There you have the specifics on the landing gear!

MM
 
Well, you've got me, there. The man knows ONE word in French.

Je suis époustouflé! Bafoué! Terrassé! Omnibulé! Ahuri! Ébloui! :rolleyes:



It's nice how you pick the one part of my post you think agrees with you and IGNORE the rest of what I've said. How very, very clever of you.

Oh, and by the way:



You've been busted, I believe.

Naturally I reply to what is significant and ignore the bs.

How am I busted? It's content not the man. It matters not if I find sources on the internet that provide validity to my argument. If I state something in error or it makes no logical sense, then I'm busted!

Your kind of response only reveals a lack of sincerity and an interest only in game playing.

If not for the current rigid enforcement of the JREF rules I'd have more to say about that kind of insincere post.

MM
 
Yes, because it proves you're just another Google-scientist.

This is hardly a game at all. Many people worked hard on this report. Many more people made several decisions on its basis. All of us can learn some things from it. That applies to me as well, even though I am not a mere Google-scientist, and I have been formally trained in solid mechanics, structural simulation, and CFD.

Content is precisely the point. Your petition, on the other hand, seeks to remove content, to serve its own unscientific purposes. This is hardly useful.

Is this getting through at all?

Your logic is that if I source Google to prove that 2+2 = 4 that it's a lame response, and, because it's Google..well 2+2 can't equal 4.

If I get out my crayons and figure 2+2 = 4 it's a sincere quality effort.

Your attacking me not my content. Content is content..it's either valid or it isn't! I already had postulated my point of view and searched with Google to find an illustrative example. Instead of proving my point to be in error, it becomes a back slapping session because Kent easily Google searched the example that I made little effort to hide.

Well a big congrats rocket scientists!

Is it no wonder that Dr. Greening was so disgusted by what he encountered here!


Is this getting through at all R.Mackey???

MM
 
The government sanctioned position??
LOL! Considering it deals with the crash I thought it might be interesting for others to know. If this bothers you, I really don't care.

Also its not a game. If you take from a source it would be helpful to provide that source rather than create an ambguity regarding the origin.

No one asked for the source.

I paraphrased the answer.

The material from the source was quite generic in nature.

Why don't you contribute something 'real' instead of spending your time searching my sources? If you had of asked me I would have told you and saved you the effort.

My argument must be effective if you are resorting to these kinds of tactics to discount it?

MM
 
None of the simulated debris impacting the south wall happened to contain landing gear fragments. 340 NIST NCSTAR 1-2B, WTC Investigation

It is believed that a portion of the main landing gear of AA 11 exited WTC 1 at the 94th or 95th floor and landed at the corner of Rector and West Streets. This debris is believed to be a tire, wheel, brake assembly, and hub of a main landing gear, as shown in Figure 9–122. Based on the final position of the landing gear and assuming the landing gear to be a projectile with a horizontal initial velocity, the exit speed of the landing gear from the south wall of WTC 1 can be estimated to be about 105 mph.
344 NIST NCSTAR 1-2B, WTC Investigation

Another piece of landing gear debris, shown in Figure 9–123, was found embedded in what is postulated to be the panel containing columns 329, 330, 331, running from the 93rd to the 96th floors. This panel was dislodged from the building and found at Cedar Street near its intersection with West Street. As little other damage had been documented on the south face of WTC 1, it is postulated that the landing gear debris that landed at the corner of Rector St. and West St. also exited through this panel location. NIST NCSTAR 1-2B, WTC Investigation 345

A portion of the landing gear of UAL 175 exited WTC 2 and landed on the roof of 45 Park Place. No photographic evidence was available to document the size of the fragment and whether this was a nose or main landing gear. 352 NIST NCSTAR 1-2B, WTC Investigation

A portion of the port main landing gear was seen to exit the building at approximately 230 mph in the more severe impact analysis,
as shown in Figure 9–131(b). No landing gear debris exited the building in either the base case or less severe simulations. At the conclusion of the simulation, the base case analysis had a substantial piece of the starboard main landing gear still at approximately 130 mph that was expected to impact the northeast corner. NIST NCSTAR 1-2B, WTC Investigation 353

Observed trajectories of specific aircraft components, such as the landing gear and engines, were considered to be of lower importance in validating the simulated damage to the tower. A fairly precise knowledge of the internal configuration of the building would be needed in order to simulate the trajectory of specific aircraft debris. Damage to the opposite side of each tower from the point of impact was also of lower importance. These parts of the tower were modeled with lower resolution and as a result, the models were not sufficient to capture the detailed damage.

Table 9–13. Comparison with observables from WTC 1.
Landing gear trajectory was deemed by NIST to be slightly significant and in poor agreement.NIST NCSTAR 1-2B, WTC Investigation 363

Table 9–14. Comparison with observables from WTC 2.
Landing gear trajectory was deemed by NIST to be not significant and in fair agreement.NIST NCSTAR 1-2B, WTC Investigation 363

There you have the specifics on the landing gear!

MM
Your own post used energy of a hand to break a "hard' object! Energy!

Based on this post, the majority of the energy of ejected parts was spent on damaging the WTC. This proves the petition is in error and full of junk.

You continue to not know what you post! You are so good at debunking what you want to support it is too funny. You say something and prove it wrong with sources and yet do not realize it.

You are making my day, please continue so we will learn more about how truthers think. You have done the research and have the answer, why do you now essentially support an idea you have totally destroyed.
 

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