Russian False Flag - Debunk this if you Can

[Daryl17]

I think the following paragraph sums the basic concept up:

"On the evening of September 22, 1999, an alert resident of an apartment building in the town of Ryazan noticed strangers moving heavy sugar sacks into the basement from a car. Militia (the local police) were called to the site and all residents were evacuated. The first test of the powder from the sacks showed the presence of an explosive. All roads from the town were brought under heavy surveillance but no leads were found. A telephone service employee tapped into long-distance phone conversations managed to detect a conversation in which an out-of-town person suggested to take care and to watch for patrols. That person's number was found to belong to an FSB office in Moscow."

Link to the Wikipedia article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_apartment_bombings#Theory_of_FSB_involvement

EDIT: I am not in anyway likening this to 9/11, as some people have suggested.

 

[brodski]

Given the various criminal things that the FSB gets up too, it is not beyond the realms of possibility that they were involved in this.

Each conspiracy theory must be taken on its own merits, we know that Russia is waging a very dirty war against Chechnya we know that eth FSB has few qualms about murder for political reasons, and we know that Putin ahs a tight control on the press in Russia- so this False flag op is not beyond the realms of possibility, or even probability.

Of course this incident says nothing of theories about much larger alleged “conspiracies” involving governments which do not such a history of extra judicial killing (especially of their own citizens) and where the government does not have tight control of the press.

 

[Vincent Vega]

Can't. 9-11 still isn't an inside job.

 

[Lisa Simpson]

As my dear old dad would say "so what does this have to do with the price of beer?"

 

[Daryl17]

Can't. 9-11 still isn't an inside job.

I didnt mention 9/11 whatsoever

 

[Daryl17]

As my dear old dad would say "so what does this have to do with the price of beer?"

So this board is for 9/11 only?, I thought it was for all Conspiracy Theories???

 

[The Doc]

I'm pretty sure no one around here thinks the concept of a false-flag is completely false.

I think the term "research this" would be more appropriate than "debunk this". We don't debunk everything we see, we just debunk that which is debunkable. It just so happens that all these 9/11 conspiracy theories are completely flawed.

So in summary, I don't believe false-flag operations are a myth, but there isn't any evidence that 9/11 was a false-flag operation.

 

[The Doc]

So this board is for 9/11 only?, I thought it was for all Conspiracy Theories???

No not at all. But the term "false-flag" is only ever associated with 9/11 conspiracy theories.

I guess it just appeared you were hinting at that. We've had a lot of "check out his false-flag... now do you believe 9/11 was an inside job?" kind of posts around here over time.

 

[ref]

So this board is for 9/11 only?, I thought it was for all Conspiracy Theories???

It is for all conspiracy theories. But you came with an attitude, debunk this if you can. It is possible this was carried out by the intelligence. We don't debunk things that we don't have evidence for. Debunking means countering something with real evidence.

As a Finn I must remind you once again, that Russians used a false flag operation to justify the attack to Finland in 1939

But this has nothing to do with other cases. Each one is their own. Saying debunk this, is like saying we should debunk every accusement against any theory or government.

 

[Lisa Simpson]

So this board is for 9/11 only?, I thought it was for all Conspiracy Theories???

No, but what conspiracy? Would anyone be at all surprised to find out the FSB was doing illegal stuff against it's own citizens?

 

[brodski]

As my dear old dad would say "so what does this have to do with the price of beer?"

Now you’re asking. I’ll attempt to demonstrate the issue form a UK perspective.

It was long thought that beer drinkers tastes where highly type and brand specific, making intra beer competition highly problematic, and preventing a truly functional market in beer.

However with the large influx of, first congenital lagers, and now wheat beers into the UK, the legal enforcement of “guest” beers and the decline in the number of “tied estates”, drinkers now have much more choice, a choice which they have shown they are willing to make , and a market is much more able to operate.

Now, what does this have to do with Russian bombing? Well in the UK traditional biters and lagers are often being ignored by consumers in favour of wheat beers (Hogarden lead eth charge, but others have followed), Russia ahs long been a net exports of all types of grain, but especially wheat. The ongoing instability in Chechnya has made wheat export much more difficult, driving up the international price of grain and thus making wheat beer more expensive to produce.
This has also increased demand for other non wheat beers, as consumers switch back, causing a general upswing in beer prices across the UK.

This has lead to drinkers switching away from beers to spirits, in particularly whisky, whiskey and, interestingly enough, Vodka. And suddenly the motives of the FSB become quiet clear…

 

[Daryl17]

I'm pretty sure no one around here thinks the concept of a false-flag is completely false.

I think the term "research this" would be more appropriate than "debunk this". We don't debunk everything we see, we just debunk that which is debunkable. It just so happens that all these 9/11 conspiracy theories are completely flawed.

So in summary, I don't believe false-flag operations are a myth, but there isn't any evidence that 9/11 was a false-flag operation.

OK I just thought that some people who don't believe in the concept of False Flags might want to try and debunk it,back on topic, do you have a relevant opinion on The Russian Apartment Bombings?

 

[Daryl17]

No, but what conspiracy? Would anyone be at all surprised to find out the FSB was doing illegal stuff against it's own citizens?

Oh, I misunderstood your point. I apologise.

 

[Year Zero]

I live in Russia(though I was born and raised in the US) and I am anti-Putin and anti-Chechen war, however, it is simply idiotic to lend more credibility to another conspiracy theory just because it involves the FSB. I have heard of this story before and I'd have to go over the facts again. However, it would not suprise me if something like this happened. Let's look at a few facts:

1. Yeltsin solved a struggle with the parliament by having tanks blast the parliament building.

2. The Russian government doesn't lift a finger to stop the brutal hazing that goes on in its conscript army(this also happens in Ukraine as well). I teach students here and they are scared to death of joining the army- and they have good reason to be.


What about the moral implications of all this? Well, Russia post 1991 has elections and different political parties, and in addition to this it now has private enterprise and businessmen can be quite successful here.

Ergo- Russia is a "democracy" and we should not take any time to look at the horrible things that have happened here since the fall of phony "Communism".

 

[The Doc]

OK I just thought that some people who don't believe in the concept of False Flags might want to try and debunk it,back on topic, do you have a relevant opinion on The Russian Apartment Bombings?

Well I can certainly say it looks suspect. I'll be the first to admit I haven't studied the case though.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if this was a Russian false-flag operation. The Russians have a history of dirty work. Just look at [SIZE=-1]Alexander Litvinenko.

I haven't studied the case though, so I am clueless as to whether this actually was a Russian operation. It wouldn't surprise me, that's all.
[/SIZE]

 

[Shrinker]

It's interesting to compare it to the 9/11 false flag operation though.

American style:
Thousands of demo charges and miles or wiring are installed throughout 3 buildings over almost 300 floors in total over a period of days, weeks or months, without anybody noticing anything, or recalling anything suspicious after the fact.

Russian style:
2/3 people try to hide three sacks in a basement. Are seen and reported by multiple witnesses.

American style:
Plot involves pretending to hijack some aircraft, then pretending to crash them into buildings, then pretending intense fires raged within them, then pretending the fires casue the steel to fail, then pretending a single failure could cause the entire building to collapse. Then pretneding the unlikely collapse will cause another building down the street to collapse.

Russian style:
Plot involves exploding a bomb, to make it look like a bomb exploded.

American style:
When challenged by talented investigators, release a surge of internet debunkers, plant fake evidence all of the internet, fake some more incidents to make the 9/11 incidents look more plausible, persuade some academics to ruin their careers by spreading disinfo.

Russian style:
Beat the investigators to death.

ETA: none of the above means I believe either story...

 

[Daryl17]

Well I can certainly say it looks suspect. I'll be the first to admit I haven't studied the case though.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if this was a Russian false-flag operation. The Russians have a history of dirty work. Just look at [SIZE=-1]Alexander Litvinenko.[/SIZE]

Good point. Its disturbing to see Putin pictured with the likes of Bush and Blair.

 

[Year Zero]

I wouldn't be surprised at all if this was a Russian false-flag operation. The Russians have a history of dirty work. Just look at [SIZE=-1]Alexander Litvinenko.
]

Still haven't seen proof that this guy was poisoned by the Russian government.

 

[Year Zero]

Good point. Its disturbing to see Putin pictured with the likes of Bush and Blair.

Well they belong together. The difference is that Blair and Bush kill more people DIRECTLY, while Putin does so indirectly(for now).

 

[Vincent Vega]

OK I just thought that some people who don't believe in the concept of False Flags might want to try and debunk it,back on topic, do you have a relevant opinion on The Russian Apartment Bombings?

Just asking questions huh? I doubt any clearly thinking person would seriously disbelieve in the concept of "False Flags" as you call them. Likewise, I find it interesting anyone would create such a strawman argument without a 9-11 "False Flag" agenda.