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VA Tech School Shooting, possible 32 dead, developing...

For God sake grow up. People are dead; this is not a god dam game.

My sympathies to those involved.

Well said. Nothing justifies this atrocity.
Sadly I fear that in a situation where gun controls are brought in the thugs would just find other weapons, for instance a crossbow or a knife. After the Dunblane atrocity in Scotland, there was an attack on a school in southern england by a man wielding a machette, in July 2004 there were four murders in my area committed by a local thug ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Hobson ). I know friends of two of the victims :( . I wish there was more that could be done to prevent sick people from resorting to violence. But I don't know if that is possible.
 
For those of us who do leave this sub-forum, there are several threads in Community and in Politics and Current Events regarding this topic.

You can go there and lose the 9-11 flavor (and take up gun control instead).
 
A terrible incident no doubt. May the dead rest in peace, and my prayers will be with the families who had to go through this
 
It seems to me that Europeans and Americans rarely find common ground on gun control, and I don't intend to start looking for either a fight or any middle ground at this time.

There is very little common ground for the debate because there is none to start with. Americans have guns as a right, it is in their Constitution and so they believe they should have them. They also recognise that some people are loonies and them having guns is a bad idea, but without giving up their own gun, the only way to stop a loony with a gun is to have one yourself. Gun control under these circumstances is probably all but impossible.

Europeans and Australasians have a different way of thinking. Here guns are a privilege that you earn by showing that you are a capable and sane person to be allowed to hold a gun licence and thus a weapon. With stricter controls on allowing weapons into the country and a mind set that doesn't involve firearms in everyday life, gun control is far easier since they are already controlled and all that needs to be done is to tighten those existing controls.

These two things can't meet in the middle.

Now back to our scheduled debunking.

I think that the CT's reaction to this makes it quite obvious that to those of such great paranoia, there is never anything that doesn't happen because a nutter did it, it is always planned out, or let to happen. To the paranoid The Government is not a bunch of humans doing a job as best they can, fallible and often inept as the rest of we mortals, but it is rather a super entity that is omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient. It sees all hears all and knows all, so if something happens, it either knew and allowed it, or it did it. There is no room for mistaken identity, for a lack of information or for simple human error, these things don't exist in the CT's world.

Thus it is when these sorts of tragedy occur that they can't write it off as a nutter on shooting rampage, but rather they have to find patterns in these events to structure them into the world they have created, and build them into their fantasies. I really don't know if we should pity them for their delusions, or despise them for the hurt and harm they do to others.

Which either, unfortunately it is the families of the victims that will live with the pain, and more so as the charlatans and frauds out there that stir the demented worlds of the deluded and prey on them and their wallets continue to spew their vile bile like that previously linked too, and undeserving of naming.

My thoughts and prayers to the families of the hurt and killed. To the fraudsters like Alex Jones, I hope you get a very hot place in hell.
 
This is a terrible, terrible tragedy. Those who seek to use it for their own gains are despicable, loathsome human beings.
 
The way I see it, this is a tragic, extremaly random event. I would like to see Virginia have more stringent hand gun laws, but as far as society needing to change because of this, I see no reason whatsoever. We live in a violent world full of violent people, and sometimes bad things happen.
 
This news is horrible, indeed. As a parent with a daughter away at university, it hits hard. You know, the "there but for the grace of God" thing.

My thoughts are certainly with the families and friends of those murdered, injured and otherwise affected by this terrible crime. Including the family and friends of the murderer. It's horrible all around for the innocent victims.
 
Im not going to go to any conspiracy theorist websites, but I can just imagine what they are saying:

"NWO activates false-flag attack to push gun-control to enslave America"
or
"Israelis warned not to attend classes at Virginia Tech"
 
King Solomon @ LC Forums said:
I don't care how many unarmed peasants get slaughtered they can't have any of my guns. These victims should have been praying and clutching a gun instead of being on the net and cell phones. This is what happens when you don't take responsibility for you own self defense.

Some people are just sick...


Interesting that while this thread didn't have a great deal to do with CTs when it began, we have now uncovered a number of conspiracy theories that already are being put out over the net.

Okay, I count two...but still.

One: That this is a government "black-op" (whatever that means) to the ends of ensuring stricter gun control laws.

Two: That this is a government operation to sent Rosie O'Donnell into another bout of depression. (cf her reaction to the Columbine incident).


My sympathies to any touched by this incident.
 
from the idiot link:
Eyewitness Matt Kazee told the Alex Jones Show that it was a full two to three hours after the shootings began that loudspeakers installed around the campus were used to warn students to stay indoors and that a shooter was on the loose.
Eye witnesses? Does this fool not know every news channel started their 100% coverage well before the shooting stopped and millions of people didn't witness this nonsense?

You really have to wonder what makes people make stuff like this up.
 
from the idiot link:Eye witnesses? Does this fool not know every news channel started their 100% coverage well before the shooting stopped and millions of people didn't witness this nonsense?

You really have to wonder what makes people make stuff like this up.



I think they might be referring to the break between the first and second shootings...

It is my understanding that it initially began as a localised murder as a result of a failed relationship. Police believed the offender had left the campus, and that the killing would end there.

Obviously the person in question was either insane, or the killing of their ex-loved one triggered something, and several hours later they came back and went to town.

I imagine it was at this point that other students were warned of the danger.

This makes sense to me...

You're talking about a campus with 25,000 people plus... that's like a decent size town.

If some guy murders his wife in a large town, do the police then evacuate the entire urban area and go around telling everyone to look out for a killer?

Of course not.

-Gumboot
 
Sadly, the internet gives an audience to people who would otherwise be confined to ranting at the TV for the rest of their lonely lives.
 
I agree with you that Fox doesn't have a point.
This is one case where all the news stations are going with this tripe.

It isn't like a high school but that's how the news media is trying to address it. Asking over and over why there wasn't some 'lockdown' after the first shooting. It's a shame too because there are some legit things that would be more useful to give attention to.

For example, survival issues in such a situation.

People delay reacting. Granted everyone doesn't know what gunshots sound like, but once you realize that's what's going on you can't sit there dumbfounded. You don't have time.

Several students climbed out windows and others wouldn't follow. It will be real sad if any that wouldn't follow were killed.

And if anything, I'd be asking why you couldn't lock the door from the inside. A couple students held one door while the shooter tried to get back in. Exit doors are supposed to open out for fire escape. I believe doors into hallways open in to keep the hall clear. They were lucky they were holding a door that opened in. If you were going to have a school plan for this kind of emergency, being able to barricade the doors would be a key element.

Was there any system to alert people in the classrooms? An intercom or room phone could have given professors an extra minute to secure their rooms. One professor said she got an email or something and locked herself in her office. Not that this woman could have done anything else, we don't know the circumstances, but it makes me wonder if these teachers have any kind of plan or training. And I'm sure they didn't in this case since the university president told the news media they had no established procedure.

How many of you have been in an actual fire in a large building? Probably very few yet there are alarms, plans, drills, and marked escape routes. Maybe every one of these large facilities should consider a plan for more than just earthquakes and fires. These mass shootings are rare enough perhaps it isn't practical for every McDonald's, but for a college campus or large office building, it seems to me like it's worth the time and expense to establish some kind of plan that could be implemented when something like this starts.

Maybe the guy would have just gone outside and found alternate victims if the people in the building were able to lock him out of their rooms, but that's still a few extra minutes for police to arrive and maybe less people together in one location.

The news coverage was its usual garbage. First there's continual coverage when reporters have nothing to report. They start filling in the time with any psychologist or ex-cop or some poor person who has gone through it before. I am so sick of the phrase, "walk us through.....". The shooting wasn't even over and they were already ask the audience to imagine these events in their minds. Do we really need these idiots "walking us through..." ?

So predictable. Next we go to the press conference where every question is hunting for that scandal. Why wasn't the university locked down after the first shooting? Because from the sound of it that would have been an asinine over reaction. Someone murdered his girlfriend and the dorm monitor then fled the scene. Maybe there's a chance a gunman is running around but honestly, why should the police suspect this guy's next step was to go on a shooting rampage 2 hours later?

Then every medic or police officer interviewed we have the reporter thanking them for all their help. Good grief, you'd think it was the reporter's kid who was saved or something. Maybe it's just me but those "thank yous" just seem so ridiculous. These folks were doing their job. That's what they are supposed to do. Family members thank rescue people. Reporters sound like idiots when they do it.

And now for the next however amount of time until some other news tops this or this fades away we get the news summaries. The time line, the clips, the sound bites. Relive the events, all with some accompanying narrative and catchy musical score.

Of course in these times we have all the religious and political nonsense to listen to as well. First thing from the White House spokesperson, "The President doesn't think gun control is the answer". Can you believe it? It so just wasn't the time to bring that up. Probably was what the reporters asked and probably the one sound bite or quote out of several they chose to repeat over and over.

Then Bush comes on and has to throw in, "we have a loving god" into his speech. So absurd!

Scarborough in his religious fervor interviewed some pastor asking what does he say to people to explain why 'God' let's this happen. I couldn't believe the guy's reply. He said "there is evil in the world" and "this was not the time for blame, this was the time to give comfort to the families". Now we have pastors adopting the political language of the dodge. What? No, "God moves in mysterious ways"? Apparently information flows both ways in the marriage between the Evangelicals and politics.

Well I'm sorry to subject you to this vent/rant. I almost put it in the "I'm depressed about VA Tech" thread. Seems we have about 6 threads open on this event. I may just post this in more than one thread so if you see it elsewhere, it is the same post.

This is just so sad, so sad. My son's going to college this fall, taking engineering of all things and living in the dorm. I guess the librarian at his high school had a nephew who was one of the wounded but it wasn't critical. It's a small world.
 
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I think they might be referring to the break between the first and second shootings...

It is my understanding that it initially began as a localised murder as a result of a failed relationship. Police believed the offender had left the campus, and that the killing would end there.

Obviously the person in question was either insane, or the killing of their ex-loved one triggered something, and several hours later they came back and went to town.

I imagine it was at this point that other students were warned of the danger.

This makes sense to me...

You're talking about a campus with 25,000 people plus... that's like a decent size town.

If some guy murders his wife in a large town, do the police then evacuate the entire urban area and go around telling everyone to look out for a killer?

Of course not.

-Gumboot
But G-boot, I don't believe there was ever any announcement over any loud speakers even if it is what the guy meant about the timeline. And as you say, why would anyone think he was going on a shooting rampage from the sound of things in that first event.
 
Was there any system to alert people in the classrooms? An intercom or room phone could have given professors an extra minute to secure their rooms. One professor said she got an email or something and locked herself in her office. Not that this woman could have done anything else, we don't know the circumstances, but it makes me wonder if these teachers have any kind of plan or training. And I'm sure they didn't in this case since the university president told the news media they had no established procedure.
I'm wondering why they didn't use the fire alarms in the second building when the shooting started (or did they?) and just get everybody outside as fast as possible.
When I used to work in a college here in the UK, we not only had regular fire drills, we also had regular staff meetings in each department to discuss in detail how tutors and other staff would deal with an evacuation-type emergency in their part of the building, right down to who would be looking after the disabled students.
This wasn't just for fire alarms - we also had occasional hoax bomb threats as well. All the staff had an evacuation plan in mind, and were primed to put it into operation when the alarm sounded. Since this happened about once a week, we got plenty of practice.

Granted, this "get them out" reaction might have put people into the gunman's path. But at least they wouldn't all have been sitting ducks inside their classrooms.
 
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I'm wondering why they didn't use the fire alarms in the second building when the shooting started (or did they?) and just get everybody outside as fast as possible.
When I used to work in a college here in the UK, we not only had regular fire drills, we also had regular staff meetings in each department to discuss in detail how tutors and other staff would deal with an evacuation-type emergency in their part of the building, right down to who would be looking after the disabled students.
This wasn't just for fire alarms - we also had occasional hoax bomb threats as well. All the staff had an evacuation plan in mind, and were primed to put it into operation when the alarm sounded. Since this happened about once a week, we got plenty of practice.

Granted, this "get them out" reaction might have put people into the gunman's path. But at least they wouldn't all have been sitting ducks inside their classrooms.
That's a tough call. Everybody pouring out of the rooms could have put them in the line of fire. No way to know unless you were there.
 

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